Ahhh! The fear of socialism and communism in America...

I posted this in another thread and thought that it may deserve its own. (with modifications of course!)

I find that the problem with the American government and some of the American people is that almost anything that is foreign or different from the traditional way of doing things is Anti-American. My guess is that it is fear of the unknown. Rights will be lost, democracy will be lost, anarchy will rule, arm yourselves... etc... Rhetoric we hear a lot when talking about socialism and communism. But has anyone ever thought of a mixed system? Oh WAIT!!! We have one in Canada, and WAIT AGAIN! They have it in Europe! Those crazies!

Here's my take on this:

I don't understand where people get the idea that having a partially socialist tendency is so bad... Look at Canada (and most of Europe too), we are a democracy, we own our own property, we have private industry and unions for their workers, yet we have free health care and free post secondary education (there are some fees but nothing like in the US) just like socialist states. This dual system makes us more free than the system in the US... I can CHOOSE whether or not to get treated at the hospital, it's not the insurance company or the hospital's choice (because I can't pay), it's mine. I can CHOOSE to go to University, not the banks who decided whether or not to give me a loan, or the fact that I have to think about paying back the loan over 50 years.

The point is that a mixed capitalist and socialist system makes you have the greatest amount of freedoms. You are free from certain big businesses stealing from you for the basic necessities such as health care, or education. You are free to make the choices for yourselves. You don't have to let insurance companies choose what treatment is good for you, and you don't have to choose your university based on how much you can spend. You can still open your own business and own 20 0000 acres of land if you wish. This isn't the Stalin style of socialism, this is a hybrid of the best of both worlds.

Corporatism and PURE capitalism as it is applied in the US is destroying the most important layer of American society, the common person. It keeps more people stupid than it thinks, it makes and keeps more people poor than it boasts, it keeps more people sick than it advertises, it kills more people than terrorism has...

Just because there are some parts of the system that may be socialized, doesn't mean that you have to lose anything. You actually gain.

Only when people will stop listening to FOX, CNN, and other pretend news stations will they realize that when you mix many different options and only take the best parts of each, you have a nearly perfect system...

Peace,

Magnum

Proud Socialist here...I always preach that Joe Workingman who stamps metal for a living get's pooped on a ton by capitalism

I am with ya

-Kyo

reply to post by Magnum007

The point is that a mixed capitalist and socialist system makes you have the greatest amount of freedoms. You are free from certain big businesses stealing from you for the basic necessities such as health care, or education. You are free to make the choices for yourselves. You don't have to let insurance companies choose what treatment is good for you, and you don't have to choose your university based on how much you can spend. You can still open your own business and own 20 0000 acres of land if you wish. This isn't the Stalin style of socialism, this is a hybrid of the best of both worlds.

Socialists are the lampreys of society.

You die if left to your own devices. You can't survive unless another does the hard work for you. You suck on anothers blood. Another who is bigger and stronger and actually works hard.

If you are smart enough you can get into Harvard even if you are poor. Not everyone is supposed to go to an IVY LEAGUE school. The world needs AC repairmen also.

You socialists want to live off the successful.

Sad.

reply to post by crmanager


Gee... We have free education, and what do you know, no shortages of AC repairmen....

Also, we have much lower un-employment rates than the US... Who is sucking on who's money?

You die if left to your own devices. You can't survive unless another does the hard work for you. You suck on anothers blood. Another who is bigger and stronger and actually works hard.

What's that supposed to mean? If you don't work in the US what happens to you? If you don't work 2 jobs just to pay the mortgage, then what happens?

Magnum

[edit on 10/2/22 by Magnum007]

Originally posted by Magnum007
....and free post secondary education (there are some fees but nothing like in the US) just like socialist states.

I agree Canada enjoys many benefits from our socialistic/capitalistic society, however what province do you live in where university education is free? I'm still paying off my student loans from '96.

Many graduates I know are in the hole close to 4o+ g's if they go away to a school. Tuition fees are like 4 -6 grand a semester are they not? Mind you I guess it's not as bad as the States tuition but a far cry from free unless you are of aboriginal descent then you can go for free.

sparrow

[edit on 22-2-2010 by sparrowstail]

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by Magnum007

 

You socialists want to live off the successful.

Sad.

You capitalists want to pay millions to bankers who failed us and destroyed our economy. You capitalists want to keep us less successful down

PS...this is coming from a guy who will soon be 'successful' as you describe

yeah...yay capitalism! Keep on crushing the guy who sweeps your floors

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


No you goons it isnt capitalists who are bad, its the evil, greedy bastards who need to have hundreds of billions of dollars.... While I do agree you Candians do have some better advantages then Americans do, However American money is being spent to keep the West free. It gives you other nations the ability to spend your money on how you choose to...

Now lets say if America Stopped the fighting of wars, or keeping a very large military all over the world, what may happen then?

reply to post by KyoZero


I am so with ya on this post. The trouble is that the Americans programed to be anti communist during the cold war but it was also a conjuring trick! Keep attacking communism but ON NO ACCOUNT CONSIDER WHAT IS DONE IN YOUR NAME UNDER YOUR NOSES.

The US government got right into the bed with one of the most backward people on the planet during the cold war. Bin Laden was a CIA friend as were the Taliban!

T

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet


Now lets say if America Stopped the fighting of wars, or keeping a very large military all over the world, what may happen then?

Peace on earth.


2nd not needed.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Sean48]

The most amazing thing of all is that most people defending capitalism and fearing socialsim (brainwashed by their own gov throu decades) are completly convinced about 9/11 and how they have been screwed for so long by the same corporation ruled governments.
Maaan you americans are so confused! Calling Obama socialist sais it all.

It is very very easy actually; socialism works in theory but we humans are too egoistic to handle it, to make it work.
Capitalism do evolve the population in a materialistic perspective, good healthcare, latest tech and so on IF you got the money, but on the cost of others, you can not make money without exploiting someone, on the unfortunate to be born in the "wrong" familly...that is in a familly that does not exploid other human fellows. And eventually it leads to...well just look outside your window. It will implode!

Uh...excuse me

Capitalism is a beautiful and wonderful system. It is a shortcut to industrial success and advancement. The world would not be as advanced as it is today without the system of Capitalism to drive it forward. Industry and innovation are the main by products of this wonderful system that propels humanity into the future.

HOWEVER
The catch is, under this system individuals will be exploited, used, and abused. Faces will be stepped, no stomped on to drive forward. Many souls will suffer the fate of slave laborers in the name of industrial advancement. Capitalism is a cheat that progresses humanity forward in the game like no other.

BUT AGAIN
It has its limits. We have reached that limit now. The time for capitalism is over. We have hit a technological point in which we can definitely sustain the world under a workable system of socialism. Where socialism was not possible in the past, it is now.
Look towards the Alaska permanent fund. Alaska citizens can receive money just for being citizens due to the oil drilling. Imagine if we embraced a system of machine labor that mass produced all the goods that we would ever need. Every person can receive a stipend for the machines and will essentially be paid to do nothing at all. Due to the fact that goods are mass produced at machine pace (lightning fast) they are unbelievably cheap. As for food, it can be produced under the machine labor as well. Vertical farming is the way of the future.
The most wonderful thing about this idea, is that it can be implemented now. No one has to work ever again, unless they wanted to make more, and if they did then good for them; let them make more. Everyone will have more than enough for food, shelter, lavish entertainment, and travel. It can happen now, but the greedy capitalist bastards need to give up the ruse and admit that we are now entering the post industrial world. IT IS HIGH TIME WE STOP ABUSING AND RAPING PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD. EXPLOITATION OF SENTIENT SPECIES IS A THING OF THE PAST!

The future is now, are you ready?

reply to post by Magnum007

Also, we have much lower un-employment rates than the US... Who is sucking on who's money?

Are you kidding? 40% of your workforce, FORTY PCT, is the government!

I know...make EVERYONE work for the government! NO UNEMPLOYMENT!

Problem solved.

And really...free school? Who pays for the buildings, the teachers salary, the books, the electricity? Is that all free also?

Are you that clueless?

Your ridiculous TAXES PAY for your free school. Really...Are you that clueless? EVERYONE in Canada pays for your free school you parasite.

Originally posted by crmanager


Are you kidding? 40% of your workforce, FORTY PCT, is the government!

Really...Are you that clueless?

Some one is clueless friend , and I believe it is you.

Where do you dig up these numbers ?





[edit on 22-2-2010 by Sean48]

I can't remember what economic system it was...I want to say 1880s United States? They had many restrictions on corporations, and this lead to a very fair and industrial nation. Then, the corporations took power, and removed many of the safeguards...Now we have the Federal Reserve, Military-Industrial government, and massive corruption.

We stopped being a truly capitalist country when they took over.

And to you who actually have the gall to consider Socialism...look the 1970's. In the hippie movements...NONE of those socialist societies, the ones which were supposed to last forever considering their small numbers, as opposed to a nation, exist, to my knowledge, today. They are gone, and so is socialism. Plus, socialism is the brother of Communism, which can be just as dangerous; see the Soviet Union and Modern China.

[edit on 2/22/10 by Sickle_And_Hammer]

reply to post by Sean48


Do you really think that? There is always one power who sways the world, from Babylon, to Egypt, To Greece, To Rome, To the Arabs, To the Holy Roman Empire, To the U.K., To the Americans.

If America brings its troops home, are you naive enough to think the Russia or China, would stay in there own borders? I doubt it.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Sean48

 

Do you really think that? There is always one power who sways the world, from Babylon, to Egypt, To Greece, To Rome, To the Arabs, To the Holy Roman Empire, To the U.K., To the Americans.

If America brings its troops home, are you naive enough to think the Russia or China, would stay in there own borders? I doubt it.

Sadly sir, I know you are right.

Someone always is looking over their fence.

Which is why the US should maintain their Military, smaller, and in their own
backyard.

I had a gigantic post but firefox erased it.
I'll say this
We don't practice true capitalism anymore in America, it's perverted and ethically bankrupt. That's the problem with it.

I enjoy working for things on my own. That means paying for my own school and having the risk of failure at my back at all times. It makes you a stronger person, and a person with a stronger character.

I should be on welfare, I should be getting food stamps, but I'm not. I'm working for my own bread and I will continue to do so until I am forced to starve or take a handout.

Health care is expensive in America because of a socialist program, Medicare.

Edit to add: I don't want to be more like Europe. Our government has lasted longer than any European system currently being used, if memory serves.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Mr Headshot]

reply to post by Sean48


Your right we should keep the current size active duty on our borders. Increase the NG, AR, and IRR. Then the Our goverment could afford to pay our health bills to=) Not really, but we would see other nations who are "Socialist" # bricks, and increase the size of there armies....

So I guess America isnt that evil after all...

I have to just clarify some of the facts here so as to make sure everyone understands reality here.

Capitalism- an economic system based on private ownership of capital.

Basically, this just means private property. My toothbrush is my toothbrush and my hammer is my hammer.

Socialism- an economic system based on state ownership of capital.

My toothbrush is really the state's toothbrush and my hammer is really the state's hammer.

Communism- a form of socialism that abolishes private ownership.

I have no toothbrush, but I can use the state's toothbrush if I can manage to get their consent and the same goes for the hammer.


Here is a really important one:

Money- the most common medium of exchange.

Today's monetary system is completely debt based. If there wasn't any debt in the country there wouldn't be any money. The major problem today is that our economy is now deflating in terms of money due to the workings of today's monetary system. There is also the problem of the government creating more debt in order to keep up its normal operations as well as to expand. This expansion of credit causes an overall devaluation of the currency and add the deflating economy and you have yourself a "double whammy".

There are only two ways to "recover" the economy. One is for a new emerging market to pop up that causes a significant increase of investment as well as debt creation through loans, this is commonly know as a "bubble". The second way is for there to be a new war that requires massive expenditures on a national level which creates massive debt through loans as well as creating many artifical bubbles feeding the war machine.

From what I have seen, most americans are not privy to such simple knowledege of their monetary system and the nature of today's economy. Those who have been exposed to such information for an extended period of time tend to support some kind of monetary reform in order to create a more balanced monetary system.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by KyoZero

 

However American money is being spent to keep the West free. It gives you other nations the ability to spend your money on how you choose to...

Now lets say if America Stopped the fighting of wars, or keeping a very large military all over the world, what may happen then?

Don't you mean keeping yours and our gas guzzling SUV's filled with cheap gas? Hopefully not for long as soon as the fat cats are done raping the oil in the middle east.

And about what may happen if America stopped occupying other countries? Ask that very popular Texan Republican Congressman what would happen then. I like what he says about that.