A thoughtful question

Im starting this thread with a warning - an a nod to the mods - please note this is NOT posted as a free for all and I want intelligent discussion or I will ask for the thread to be deleted/locked

Ok so lets postulate

The truthers have posed their arguments, the "deniers" and "disinfo" agents theirs.

The truthers have proved the case - there were planned explosions in WTC1 and 2 and WTC 7 and no plane hit the pentagon.

Now what?

You won so what's the next step? What faces America in a post 9/11 set up job world?

Where does the UK stand in this conspiracy? - guilty as accomplice?

What does the US say to the UN ? How now stands it mandate?

Afgahnistan - what now happens there - a US withdrawal?

Do you bring an ex President to the courts?

Is the media held as complicit and therefore subject to sanctions?

What do we do about the victims families? are they compensated for an act of terrorism or and act of government conspiracy?

In the words of my college tutor - a very eminent Professor on Terrorism in Northern Ireland - " Discuss Ladies and Gentleman - I wish you luck......oh and mines a pint of Guinness in the terrapin after"

*the terrapin was the bar at Magee University college

Edit Spellings





[edit on 13-2-2010 by Silk]

I like your questions.

My response to them all is that we are unlikely to see any real change until we have lots and lost of us jumping up and down on rooftops shouting at the top of their lungs that they "aren't going to stand for it any more".

We will see no change until we all stop work, and down tools, and say "no".

"No" just so happens to be the most powerful word we all know. We should all learn to say no and mean NO, when it comes to carrying out war in our name. We should say no and mean NO when it comes to brutally murdering and destroying lives in our name... and so on and so forth.

The most important question is: 'Has the penny dropped yet?'

Originally posted by dampnickers
I like your questions.

My response to them all is that we are unlikely to see any real change until we have lots and lost of us jumping up and down on rooftops shouting at the top of their lungs that they "aren't going to stand for it any more".

We will see no change until we all stop work, and down tools, and say "no".

"No" just so happens to be the most powerful word we all know. We should all learn to say no and mean NO, when it comes to carrying out war in our name. We should say no and mean NO when it comes to brutally murdering and destroying lives in our name... and so on and so forth.

The most important question is: 'Has the penny dropped yet?'

But if this is the truth will people listen?

That's the root of my question - lets ignore the rheoric and bluster - saying NO is just that - I am in the UK so ill lay my cards on the table there.

The truthers are right - so saying no is the response ?

(this is the tenant of the OP)

Ok.
Most of the change in Japanese government this last year was because of research done by them about 9/11, The "peoples" part of that government does not trust America now. The rest of the government wanted to go along with the lie. Consider us now in a "war" with Japan.
Briton is an a war with its people and only time will tell if they turn against America.
The rest of Europe is 59-50 on American trust but the governments will side with America as long as they get a piece of the "action".
The UN is bought & paid for as log as the Power in the US stays in the governments hands.
Canada is about 33% on not trusting the US.
As long as Afghanistan keeps supplying drugs then the US will withdraw & pay "reparations".
The 2 Texas candidates who mentioned 9/11 are being hit for it.
The media is not complicit as they are doing what they are paid to do. (ha ha)
The Government could care less about the victims. They even made the EPA back down on the dust and the building. "If you got sick it was not from 9/11". The crews and passengers wrer just throwaway people to them.
There are many who should face justice, including the 2 Bushes, Clinton, Gore, Chaney & Obama.

Even if we have elections in 2010 - by the way, more seats are becoming open as rats try and escape the axe - we need people to stand up.

Will You? Will you stand up and be targeted by the media & the Government?
Will we stand and say
"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."

Reply to post by Silk

Loaded Question Fallacy

Form: A question with a false, disputed, or question-begging presupposition.

A "loaded question", like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question that presumption. The question beating your wife?" your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Well, first and foremost, you simply stop trusting the american government on even the smallest level. Once you accept the fact that it is complicit in this egregious act you should find yourself asking all sorts of questions concerning what they have told you is true. The more you look at your assumptions concerning this government the more you realize that those first assumptions are based upon even deeper and earlier assumptions. Then you start to research and see how much honest truth is available on what is really going on behind the media veneer and spin doctoring. Eventually you reach a point where you think you have a handle on what the real game is all about. And then the next move is up to you. Do you organize? Do you grab your guns and go out in a blaze of glory? Do you try to communicate what you know to whoever will listen? Do you seek out sympathetic people with some power and influence and try to get them to act? Only you can answer these questions.

Whether I agree with the truthers or not the bigger picture is the lack of faith in our (U.S.) government. If there is enough people that believe the government "could" have done this, then I believe the end is near for said government. Its going to cause a monumental vote of no confidence for our country's leadership.

With regard to Afghanistan and Iraq. Even if the reasons for "going in" were false...It is arguable that the action has merit in of itself.

Reply to post by PhoenixDemon

Thus the reason it's desirable to certain foriegn powers that wish to see use destroyed that people in the USA believe they're government did it. And I am sure they know it.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

well, I think one thing should happen, the US should get their troops out of those countries, they just cant keep killing people

I dont know what should be done, because really, if you stop to think, everyone is guilty, even the population for being ignorant and not realizing whats in front of them, for not taking the time to research about what their government is really doing

so, I dont think anything should happen besides the US to take their troops out of wherever they are and to never do these bull$% again and never talk about these things again

I dont think they will ever confess what they did

reply to post by Faiol


While I agree that we should never have gone there, I do not agree just cutting and running is not a good idea. For various reaons.

"The truthers have proved the case"
That statement invalidates this thread, no they have hardly proven anything other then assumptions based on fuzzy science.

I've read plenty of the so called truther evidence and the science that debunks them make much more sense.

The only conspiracy I could even remotely seeing as possible, which is still just my opinion and nothing more, is that the towers were not built as safe as the engineers and construction companies claimed they were.

reply to post by drock905


Agreed. One addition IMHO, seems to me they intentionally "looked the other way" when the attacks were coming. Training exercises being a convient cover.

Originally posted by Silk
The truthers have proved the case - there were planned explosions in WTC1 and 2 and WTC 7 and no plane hit the pentagon.

Truthers have not proven anything other than they are a bunch of gullible morons who lack the ability to think critically about anything.

Where does the UK stand in this conspiracy? - guilty as accomplice?

The UK? Dunno. Its going to be Muslim in a few decades anyhow, so who cares?

What does the US say to the UN ? How now stands it mandate?

LOL. The UN...the singular most ineffective and corrupt organization in the history of the world. Mandate? What mandate? A mandate to squander billions of dollars on Mercedes and expense accounts. A mandate for not calling to account genocidal regimes because...well...then the UN would have to actually *do* something.

Afgahnistan - what now happens there - a US withdrawal?

Withdraw? Why? The job is not done yet. There are still terrorists to kill. Question: Why shoot a terrorist twice? Answer: 1) To make sure he's headed to his 72 virgins and 2) ammunition is cheap.

Do you bring an ex President to the courts?

Why? And what for? Because you don't like him? Not a valid reason. If that were the case I'm sure you'd be looking at multiple counts.

Enough of this tripe. Your questions are not thoughtful and deserve derision.

I don't think the OP is claiming that the truthers proved the case.

I think he is just basing the conversational aspect of the thread as a "What If?"

As in .. "What if ... The truthers have proved the case that ...."

His point is ... What would the results be?

And I think it's a scenario that most people, no matter which side you're on, have never really delved in to.

So ... What if the story comes out and the conspiracies were true?

I can't even begin to speculate what the outcome would be.

When you think about it, 9/11 happened To America - In America, yet it affected the entire world on one way or another.

For the whole story to come unraveled and the truth be exposed ... One can't even begin to try to understand what the worlds reaction would be.

Hell, some Enron officials chose suicide over justice.

reply to post by Detailed Perfection


Thank you for grasping my point exactly.

I have nor ever will claim the truthers have proved their case - this is just an intellectual exercise - nothing more