Christians Desecrate Wiccan Religious Site at Air Force Academy

All I have to say is; though my beliefs run towards pagan, some seemed to see me as jumping to the Christian side but that was/is not the case. I was more or less saying that I believe this was a highly disrespectful act but fueled more by ignorance than by hatred. That is all. Not a Christian myself but attempting to stand up for the decent ones (was raised Catholic and know lots of good people because of it!)

reply to post by CelticFire417

was raised Catholic and know lots of good people because of it!

Just a matter of time before they have Christian beheading parties to eliminate the heretics.

And just about every pagan knows that this interpretation of the cross is incorrect.

Further, pagans have throughout time used crosses - hence why the Celtic Cross looks different. It is an incorporation of two types of crosses - one pagan, one Christian. Prior to Christianity expanding into celtic pagan territory, Christians did not even use a cross. They used the fish symbol.

Terrorism is taking it WAY too far.

If they are lit up a bon fire with a stake in the middle of it on the site - THAT would be a hate crime and if it was done by an organization it would qualify as a potential act of terror. However, a CROSS does not.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Aeons

 

Bullying and terrorism are not the same thing.

The act was done to promote terror, fear, and make people wary of Christian retaliation. The cross is not only a religious symbol, but a symbol of a torturous painful death. Perhaps the terrorist Christians who put up that cross wanted to portray the message that if these Pagans kept worshiping the way they were, they would end up on a cross in some holy crusade.

We're running two threads on the same subject, and I'd like the mods to combine them or something as we are diluting good debate.

I made the following point in 'the other' thread, and I humbly suggest it is relevant to post here as well:

I cannot help but take note of the fact that members who would identify themselves as Conservative...and quite likely Christians as well, are the ones blowing this off as a non-event.

While those who self-identify as Pagan or Wiccan that are taking serious offence at these circumstances. I would say that they are entitled to feel attacked, and as we are well aware, the harassment of religious minorities is always the first step towards more profound oppression. Freedom of worship is a fundamental right.

Those who chose to desecrate the site should be publicly shamed, and if it takes 'Hate Laws' to do so...well then, the next group of cross-bearing arses might just think twice.

How come so many Christians seem to have trouble acting like Christ?

reply to post by whatukno


Oh, Wukky. Come on. You know that is not true. I don't understand how you defend intolerance faced at other religions (including levels of extremism that include ACTUAL beheadings by trying to show it's not all of them) but say something so nasty about Christians.

Taking it seriously, but not depicting it in the over the top manner that is happening is an important distinction.

[edit on 2010/2/5 by Aeons]

reply to post by CelticFire417


Well, as I stated before, to me, this almost sounds more like a Psy-OP. My knee jerk reaction was to say, "What right do they have to do this!!" Then I got to thinking. "Do I really know who 'they' are?" I don't.

One would ASSUME that it was some over-zealous "Christians" who wanted to pull a prank. However, for all we know, it could have as easily been a bunch of secular humanists who want to get a bunch of bull started. Like I said, some people know exactly how to gain more control. First you divide, then you conquer.

reply to post by AshleyD

Oh, Wukky. Come on. You know that is not true. I don't understand how you defend intolerance faced at other religions (including levels of extremism that include ACTUAL beheadings by trying to show it's not all of them) but say something so nasty about Christians.

And I don't believe that all Christians are evil either, but when a group of individuals set out to desecrate what is a sacred site, it is an act of terrorism. Just as if these same Christians returned to the practice of burning heretics at the stake.

Not all Christians are like this, just as not all Muslims are jihadists.

The actual point I was trying to make is that it's easy to judge an entire religion based on the acts of a few individuals. I find intolerance abhorrent used in any context.

But it is true that even recently Christian extremists have done some horrible things in the name of their religion. But the key word here is extremists. This was an act done by extremists. It was a terrorist act as it was done with the specific intention of causing fear and making the people of a religious group feel persecuted. I feel that it should be investigated to the extent that the act's intent portrayed. If Christian extremists are to get off light due to their terrorist acts, what does that say about the ideal of separation of church and state?

Does someone actually have to die in order for this violent and yet small section of a religious group be routed out? People have died because of the actions endorsed by the "Army of God". At what point does a society admit it has a problem? And that religious extremism has no place in civilized society?

Originally posted by LibertyLover
The trials in Salem were not about paganism at all and while as a Wiccan I am sorry people died, none of them were anything but Christians. They were the last vestige of the Burning Times. Research has shown that the trials were the tangled result of politics, religion, family feuds, economics and people's imaginations.

Thank you for your post. Even though this is taught in schools it is ignored for the most part.

Ignorance of other religions leads to fear that manifests into hatred. Hatred closes itself to understanding. From a pyschological standpoint, religious leaders who propagate hatred and distrust of other religions are frightened that they could be wrong. Their faith is lacking and it's these people who are teaching and preaching their religion to others.

That is truely frightening.

There is nothing in the article or the links found in the article that suggest a christian actually did this. For all we know it could have been an atheist, satanist, muslim, hindu or alien from Niburu who put that cross there.

What evidence do we have that a christian did this?

reply to post by LordBucket

2) If you were a follower of an earth-based religion, do you think you would prefer to do your thing indoors or outdoors?

Personally anywhere I chose to so long as I do not infringe on the rights of others and vise-versa.

Not all pagans worship outside some or even all of the time. Depends on the climate usually.

reply to post by EMPIRE


That's exactly the point I am making.... Of course, as should be noted, it isn't the pagans raising hell over this. It seems to be everyone else.

You may rest assured that there are hot headed and even fundamentalist pagans. They tend not to last too long - their heads explode having to deal with other pagans.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

That's exactly the point I am making.... Of course, as should be noted, it isn't the pagans raising hell over this. It seems to be everyone else.

As God will always be around, it's noticable that people accept titles and do things in other's name....yet the Goodness shall remain to separate weeds from the fruits.

[edit on 5-2-2010 by ImperialMaj]

On another note, I am ready for some quarterback to try and paint the Koran (or sanskrit, etc, etc) all over their face like Tim Tebow does the bible and lets see how people take that. Of course, now he is planning on doing a superbowl commercial on anti-abortion.

Yay, a discussion on religion! My favoriite part of the day!
All religions who try and recruit are foolish institutions for the weak and low self esteemed. To hear anyone say that their religion is the right one or that their religion is even on the creators list is funny.
This act of terrorism--it is because it incites fear--is just what the bible(koran) ordered. Read that silly book and see for your self1 If peoplr weren't so afraid of being in the universe alone then we wouldn't have to put up with all this war in the name of some G.O.D.--gold, oil, drugs--and people could get down to the real deal and not some fairytale they defend like they actually know something
Humans are stupid!

Wow, so many people here upset that Christians did something to mock another religion and then half of the thread is full of people mocking Christians.

Comparing Christians to Muslims. It's as different as night and day. You say Christians are all about infiltrating and establishing their own laws to make people do things their way and that its worse than in Muslim nations? Right... because Muslims nations force Sharia (muslim) law on the people in broad daylight and allow if not encourage acts of murder against people who do not believe the same as they do.

It's also why some of us Christians hate almost everything about how our government is handled.

Understand I am not putting down all Muslims, I have made my position about Muslims and Islam numerous times in other posts. I

Nobody needs a tax funded place of worship. Let the people worshiping build the place themselves, like most churches. As far as I am concerned church buildings have been a blight to the faith for centuries anyway. The early believers would meet in homes because it was not safe for them elsewhere. It also did wonderful things for developing the fellowship and friendship that is vital to having a healthy community. We are heading to that same thing today if these hate laws keep passing making it a crime to say that anything is a sin.

Sure, putting a cross in the middle of somebody else's area of worship is disrespectful and wrong. The main thing that I hate about it is that it does exactly the opposite of what we as Christians are supposed to do. As a result of stuff like this, more and more people are being turned away from the real faith and freedom that is found in Christ.

I am a Christian, and yes I will fight for my freedom. Not because it is something America has given me. America itself once acknowledged that it was God who gave us these gifts such as real freedom. God has purchased us at the cost of His only Son, and as a result He does not want us selling ourselves into the service of another master.

We will fight for our freedom and we will fight to protect those entrusted to us. Defend myself? Maybe. Defend my wife and child to be? Unquestionably. What man is a man that will not protect his family? It is one of the very things God designed us to do.

If I am wrong in this assertion, make your case. This is not an argument to prove or disprove any one faith, especially my own. I believe it and nothing will change that. Those of you who have refused it have already heard the message and have rejected it and are unlikely to change your mind as a result of anything that I could say. Some of you have not looked into the message at all and yet refuse it with a blind arrogance that only you can change.

End point, what they did was wrong, but it in no way compares to the evils I see day after day perpetrated by the Islamic extremists and our own corrupt government. (not trying to justify it or even excuse it, but it is naive to think it even compares)

Sorry for the long post. Wanted to make a point and be clear about it.

Originally posted by Aislin

Thank you for your post. Even though this is taught in schools it is ignored for the most part.

Ignorance of other religions leads to fear that manifests into hatred. Hatred closes itself to understanding. From a pyschological standpoint, religious leaders who propagate hatred and distrust of other religions are frightened that they could be wrong. Their faith is lacking and it's these people who are teaching and preaching their religion to others.

That is truely frightening.

I agree with some of what you have to say, but I disagree to a degree with the "hatred and distrust"of other religions being due to a lack of understanding or faith in their own beliefs.

I will not claim that I never have doubts (I know my faith is true and I will never forsake my God, but due to my own lack of understanding sometimes doubts can arise until I understand what was previously unknown to me), but I teach and speak against Islam openly because I have studied it and I know the damage it can do. And not just the terrorist aspect of it. woman are lower than dogs in worth according to the Koran. If you claim otherwise you have not read it *(or you have and follow another one of the teachings which is lying in order to prove your point or get what you want no matter the cost.)

Scientology brainwashes people and takes all their money. Not some as compared to a tithe that the church or mosque asks for but TAKES it. If you get in your way, they have been known to kill. Research it and you too would see a reason to establish distrust and even hatred of these things. Not because they teach something different, but because they are evil and harmful.

(Please don't get into the evils of the catholic church, I am not catholic and myself am appalled at some of the things they do, and even speak out against them on occasion so long as I am confident I know about the topic being discussed.)

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Mykahel]

reply to post by whatukno


I agree that we cannot judge an entire religious body based on the acts of a few who claim to be affiliated with that body.

What I feel needs corrected is this...

Muslim extremists are extremists because they are doing what the Koran says to the extreme. They are doing what IT SAYS TO DO. They are not misunderstanding the texts or anything. Those not doing these things are called moderate.

A Christian extremist, if extremist means the same thing, would be throwing his life on the line day and night in order to hopefully save a person they dont even know. They would have nothing, as it would all have been given to those in need. Christians WANT to be extreme, because to be a "moderate" Christian is to be luke-warm and ineffective. It means we aren't sold out on what God has to offer us. It means we aren't really living the faith if we are just "moderate." We want to be extreme.

So many people refer to "christians" who have done terrible things as extremists. These are not extreme Christians because they are not doing what Christ has commanded. They are going backwards. These people so often labeled "christian extremists" are exactly the opposite, they are hypocrites to the very worst degree.