Closet Subjectivism and the Bias Thinking We Hang Within

Following is a list, created by one person at some point in the history of the United States. The only reason I do not specify the time is because it would ruin the game. An intellectual exercise of your own mind in attempts to understand that the the right/left dichotomy is nothing more than a construct created to keep people beholden to what they are told to think.

The list I provide is a real and actual list. It will remain uncredited due to the nature of the exercise, but surely they are not my words. They are the words of another and in due time I will edit the post as to provide the origination of the ideas.

1. Spending. The budget must be cut to stop the dangers of inflation and to stop the attendant dangers of deficit spending. It can be cut too.
...
4. Military Spending. The military is the greatest waster of money and manpower we have. They must be made to conduct their affairs in a businesslike manner.
...
7. Social Security, Old Age Pensions and Welfare. I believe in these programs but I believe in proper and honest administration of them.
...
9. Indian Affairs. The Indians have made no progress under the Indian Bureau in [over] a hundred years....The Indian is still not a full citizen and we must make him one

-Barry Goldwater

I didn't provide the whole list as a manner of space. The idea is to break free of the left/right paradigm and expand your thinking. Did this person have an R or a D after their name? Are they conservative or liberal?

Do you have what it takes to break the shackles of instantly applying a label to an expressed idea or ideas so they fit nicely into your compartments? Or can you expand your thinking to encompass a more objective, critically thought out understanding?


[edit on 30-1-2010 by ownbestenemy]

[edit on 30-1-2010 by ownbestenemy]

I would say an old school conservative who is also not an Ayn Rand fan and before Reganomics washed over the base???

Anyhow I am just going by my instinct, it was probably MLK or David Duke for all I know



[edit on 30-1-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red


Can I ask how you have come to that point? Is it the ideas laid out? Are you allowing bias of who I perpetuate myself to be on this site to creep in and dictate the label?

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Did this person have an R or a D after their name? Are they conservative or liberal?

I'll bite. A conservative Democrat?

Source to be reviled

I'm pretty sure you meant 'revealed', but "reviled" works, too, many times here on ATS!

I'm not a spelling or grammar cop, but I couldn't pass that one up! Sorry.

neither, it sounds like something jefferson would have said. or fastforward to 1929, and sounds like something some politician said during that time. i dunno, the suspense is killing me.

oh btw if jefferson said it would have been democrat i do believe.


love and peace


edit to add: since its speaking ofNative Americans, i might say republican, and Abe Lincoln

[edit on 30-1-2010 by M157yD4wn]

Excellent idea for a thread. I'll bite.
Going to go with Jimmy Carter.
When do I get to find out how wrong I am?

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Can I ask how you have come to that point? Is it the ideas laid out? Are you allowing bias of who I perpetuate myself to be on this site to creep in and dictate the label?

1.Well it sounds like a reasonable person, would does not ascribe to laissez faire capitalism and at the same time thinks government should be measured, but not eliminated.
IMO this sounds conservative but before the unfortunate pro corporation attitude
infected the ideology during the Reagan revolution. Back when being a conservative
"meant" being measured and cautious, not extreme and anti "social". So I would guess the date is pre 78 or so, I mean it could also be a dixiecrat...

2.Yes the ideas and the tone, once again, not overtly liberal and no a tinge of the NEOconism that have come to the fore in recent years.

3.Yes, I don't know how to be other than myself, I try to think sometimes



[edit on 30-1-2010 by Janky Red]

Well let us see if we get some more participants. Ill give it an hour from now then we can discuss who said it, the shift in the paradigm and how it relates to today and how we think of the right/left.

Very good guesses by the by and yes...I should have double checked my spelling and grammar as to miss that word and failed word usage! Darn screwdrivers...

reply to post by Janky Red


Very good assertion and Janky those questions were general and not aimed at you alone. Sorry if they came off that way.

Merely I want people, in this thread to move away from knee jerk reactionary responses and think beyond what is there. To harness the collective critical thinking skills of the masses in attempts to better educate ourselves.

Thank you for your input and you are good at narrowing that one down...you are correct...it pre-dates 1979

Since I have the patience of a 5 year old I revealed (this time I got the word right) the person who it came from.

Barry Goldwater, a Conservative in all manner of speaking but not that which we see today in the likes of someone like John McCain.

When researching and studying the past we see that there was a time where just because they were Republican, didn't mean they followed the party line, but rather principles. They followed convictions that they have developed throughout the years in their own right.

I did this thread in attempts to deflect those that wish to clump the conservatives that may be on this board that do not prescribe to the party of today, but to the principles of a time that seems forgotten.

Not all republicans and conservatives want what is perpetuated today.

The people who have attributed and provided their insight did so very well as you dug deep and sought for who would say such things.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by freedomOspeach


I'm sorry but my writing style and word usage is probably considered to be at the 6th grade level, the very level that news outlets aim for. If you cannot understand then I am sorry and maybe it is you that is the major problem in this country.

Unable to allow your thinking beyond which satisfies your need to attempt at a witty response.

Now if you have something further to say that pertains to the thread than do so, if not, why did you even bother to post your dribble?

And yes...I did wank on my dictionary. We are quite good friends and she (yeah I personify it as such) really likes how I handle her

[edit on 30-1-2010 by ownbestenemy]

reply to post by freedomOspeach


Wow, that was such a provocative post! Why did you even bother? Especially from someone who spells Speech with an "a". Congratulations! I've read your four posts and due to three of them, I'm putting you on ignore!

[edit on 30-1-2010 by WTFover]

Originally posted by freedomOspeach
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

dude put down the dictionary. eloquence is best left to the educated, not the fabricated.

blah, blah, blah, (big word), blah, blah, blah, (just wanked on my dictionary), blah...i need to sleep now...wanker.

The educated know enough to capitalize each word at the beginning of a sentence. The educated know enough to use grammar, so that when they are using nouns or pronouns, even those that are idiomatic such as; "dude", they have made an attempt to better communicate their thoughts. The educated rely upon dictionaries to improve and ensure better usage and facility of language.

While education can be a useful method of helping people become better thinkers, an education alone does not guarantee one will graduate a better thinker than when they began their education. Education, tragically, is not synonymous with thinking, it is more often than not indoctrination and under those circumstances, the only thing worse than an idiot, is an idiot with an education.

Cool, I figured it was an older school politician...

I can relate to this style of Republicanism more so than the modern post RR version.







Thanks for the game

reply to post by Janky Red


Isn't it ironic that our great leaders of yesteryear and their words ring true today? Jefferson, Adams, Lincoln, Goldwater to name a few....you can take their words and apply it today and they will be true.

Thank you for the video. For some reason I keep writing in Barry Goldwater on election day and he just doesn't seem to get voted into office

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Barry Goldwater is an interesting fellow. "Mr. Conservative" would more likely be a Democrat today than a Republican. He certainly could not go very far in a Republican Presidential primary because he supported abortion rights and gay rights.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


What is even more he lambasted John McCain for his stance on abortion. The very man that took over the seat he held.

Barry Goldwater was what I call a true Conservative. One that wanted to conserve the Constitution and the original intent there within. He wanted morality with Public Officials, freedom to be as widely disseminated as possible, and always held true that politics can be a noble job.

He also did not understand why the current Republican party took such stances on abortion and gay rights as they did. He felt is was not the Federal Government's place nor authority to even consider.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

Barry Goldwater is an interesting fellow. "Mr. Conservative" would more likely be a Democrat today than a Republican. He certainly could not go very far in a Republican Presidential primary because he supported abortion rights and gay rights.

Hey "Dude", where the heck have you been? You have been missed and it is nice to see you. It has always been my understanding that the conservative party came about because there were far too many people taking a far too liberal view of the Constitution. In that regard, it is hard to understand how supporting "abortion rights" and "gay rights" is a conservative ideal. The right to have an abortion may or may not come down to the right to choose, but the right to choose certainly seems to be self evident enough that abortion may fall within that category.

However, if the right to choose is a self evident right, then that choice goes well beyond "abortion rights" and is, quite simply, a right to choose what one does with their own body. As such, using drugs, or other such products currently prohibited by legislation would also fall under this right.

As to "gay rights", the matter of consensual sex would also fall under the right to choose, and whatever a persons sexual proclivity may be, their bent or straightness has little to do with their rights. What I am saying is that all people have rights regardless of who they are having sex with and the notion of "special rights" for "special groups" only undermines the principles of rights. It should not matter if a person is homosexual or heterosexual, if they are breathing, then they have rights.

So I have to ask....anyone get the pun in the title? Shameless bump.

What are your thoughts on the politics of Barry Goldwater? Would you, as a liberal or Democrat welcome such politics?

Would you as a conservative or Republican attempt to discredit those types of policies and ideas as non-conservative?

I seek answers!