So is the Crucifix a good or bad thing?

Watching and reading lots of things about the Illuminati and equally about their satanic symbols and connections. One thing I'm wondering, do you think the Crucifix is still a symbol of God, or just another symbol that secretly represents Satan? I'm sure the opinions will vary so I want to hear them.

On one hand, I think it is likely to have Satanic origins, since most organized religions have them. On the other hand, I believe symbols only have the meaning you give them, so if someone used it in the name of God it would probably be different.

Well, it is said that the Templars stomped and spat on the Crucifix. Now, traditionally, it has been said that this was because they "turned against the teachings ofChrist." However, over the years, after much study and thought, I don't think that is necessarily true.

I tend to think that because the cross is symbolic of the death of Christ, the Templars stomped and spat on the cross as a ritualistic representation of Christ's victory over the method of his death.

The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon (Latin: Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici), commonly known as the Knights Templar or the Order of the Temple (French: Ordre du Temple or Templiers), were among the most famous of the Western Christian military orders.[3] The organization existed for approximately two centuries in the Middle Ages.

Templar

As far as what the cross really means, well, that is an issue that has been discussed by scholars for a while You see, the cross predates Christianity by a bunch.



[edit on 29-1-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

I prefer to use an electric chair pendant as my favored execution device!

solar cross's are fine. Calvary crosses? Not so much.

reply to post by Bananarama


I found this article on the old bent crusifix staff that Pope John Paul II used to carry:

Please notice the Crucifix that Pope John Paul II is holding up to the people, at left. Study it closely, and you will realize that it is not a Traditional Crucifix, as we show below. Rather, this Crucifix is known as a "Bent Cross". But, what does that mean? For the answer to that question, let us turn to a Roman Catholic author, Piers Compton, writing in his book, "The Broken Cross: Hidden Hand In the Vatican", Channel Islands, Neville Spearman, 1981.

This Bent Crucifix is "... a sinister symbol, used by Satanists in the sixth century, that had been revived at the time of Vatican Two. This was a bent or broken cross, on which was displayed a repulsive and distorted figure of Christ, which the black magicians and sorcerers of the Middle Ages had made use of to represent the Biblical term 'Mark of the Beast'. Yet, not only Paul VI, but his successors, the two John-Pauls, carried that object and held it up to be revered by crowds, who had not the slightest idea that it stood for anti-Christ." (p. 72) On page 56 Compton prints a picture of the current Pope, John Paul II, holding this bent or broken cross, just as we have shown, at left.


Therefore, Pope John Paul II is telling all the occultists the world over that he is not a Traditional Pope, but a Pope that is committed to carrying out the role of World Religious Leader as called for in the New World Order Plan. Another Roman Catholic author, Malachi Martin, makes this same claim - that Pope John Paul II is committed to the New World Order Plan in his book, "The Keys To This Blood".

Forbidden Knowledge

I think Pobe Benidict XVI has a more conventional cross on his staff. He used JP II's bent cross during his coronation but has since changed to a more tradional cross:

However, this is not the only change made in the papal liturgical vestments. For several months the Pope has decided to use a golden staff in the form of a Greek cross, used by Pope Pius IX, instead of the silver one with the figure of the Crucified, introduced by Pope Paul VI.

"This choice does not mean simply a return to the ancient, but shows development in continuity, a rooting in Tradition that allows going forward in an orderly manner on the path of history," Monsignor Marini said. "The pastoral staff, called 'ferula,' responds more faithfully to the form of the papal staff typical of the Roman tradition, which had always been in the shape of a cross and without the Crucified."

Zenit

Maybe the days of the anti-Popes are over.



[edit on 29-1-2010 by FortAnthem]

If you have ever felt that weakness in the knees, the heart bounding, and the dread that follows knowing your going to be beat to death then hold that thought. The cross represents self sacrifice.

I've never liked it, even as a small child, despite being raised in a reasonably 'religious' Christian (Protestant) environment

To me it appeared morbid, grotesque, atavistic

I felt/feel the same way about 'body and blood of Christ'. The concept, like the crucifix bearing the alleged wracked body of Christ, seemed grotesque, backwards, primitive, unpleasant and cannibalistic to me

reply to post by Bananarama

I'm sure the opinions will vary so I want to hear them.

I'm not a christian, but if I were I think I might tend to find the cross a rather repugnant symbol. If Jesus is the savior of man, then wearing the implement of his death seems like a bad idea to me. Yes...there's that whole angle of his sacrifice taking the place of ours, but that also seems a bit horrible to me.

Personally, I don't want anyone to have to die for me. Wearing a crucifix seems like a symbolic celebration of the death of god.

Deuteronomy 5:8
Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any things, that are in heaven above, or that are in the earth beneath, or that abide in the waters under the earth.

Leviticus 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

!!!!!!!Spoiler alert!!!!!! Don't read the following if you are a catholic and want to keep your faith.

Check out the Obelisk in the Vatican and what the bible says about it and who those that have those obelisks worship, If you didn't know, you are in for a nasty surprise. I will not include any links to anything just so you can see it with your own eyes. The bible explains in details and tells us exactly what to look for and it has been there all along.

reply to post by LordBucket


Yes, you've expressed my feelings too

As a child, when told what the crucifix illustrated, I immediately felt (though unable to articulate my feelings) 'sorry for Jesus' to be portrayed that way in public, for everyone to look at

To me, it stripped Jesus of his dignity and portrayed him as pathetic, as if he'd 'lost'

I would have preferred, as a child (if I'd been asked about it) for Jesus to be portrayed (if he had to be mounted on crosses both large and small) as I'd been told he was: noble, fine, dignified, perhaps stretching out his arms to children and animals --- a protector. Most of all, I would have wished him to be portrayed as smiling

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Bananarama

 

I'm sure the opinions will vary so I want to hear them.

I'm not a christian, but if I were I think I might tend to find the cross a rather repugnant symbol. If Jesus is the savior of man, then wearing the implement of his death seems like a bad idea to me. Yes...there's that whole angle of his sacrifice taking the place of ours, but that also seems a bit horrible to me.

Personally, I don't want anyone to have to die for me. Wearing a crucifix seems like a symbolic celebration of the death of god.

That statement and your anime avatar earns a star. Thinking about it that way, it sounds quite disgusting doesn't it? It really is like a big "haha you're dead" we wear on our necks. Well not me.

I think I'll avoid the cross then. I've actually thought about it, and the idea that the cross can protect you, and it apparently has Jesus sacrificing himself on it... Isn't that more of a Satanic idea? Using someone as a sacrifice for yourself? Backwards!

As a kid, I questioned why the cross was a good thing, but until the last couple of years I never thought critically of these things.

reply to post by Elieser


I'm in Google now and am running an image-search for 'Details of Obelisk in the Vatican', but apart from the expected Eyptian symbols/heiroglyphs, cannot see the specific details you doubtless refer to

Could you please post a link which does portray closer detail, perhaps ?

Or, are the Egyptian symbols (not very clear in the photos I'm looking at) the point you're making ?

My opinion: the Egyptian obelisk itself is tantamount to a phallic symbol and the fact it's erected in the Vatican does nothing to differentiate it from phallic symbols worldwide, be they in India, Pakistan, Iran, or centre of London

OR --- is the location, the siting of the obelisk that you're drawing attention to ? Large circle/forecourt (St.Peter's square ?) = vagina / obelisk = penis equals 'union' between Roman Catholicism and ancient Egyptian gods ?

Help, please ?

As a Christian, I see nothing wrong with the cross or crucufix. We do not worship the cross, we use it to remind us of Jesus' sacrifice, death, and resurrection. It is much like the Lord's Supper... just a symbol or rite of worship and faith, not the oject of worship. It's just that simple.
However, like most all things...it can and has been corrupted by a secular world.

reply to post by Dock9


The Obelisks are "supposedly" where the Sun God dwells, people go to the Obelisks to worship Baal.
Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Ki 10:27 And they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house unto this day.
Jer 43:13 He shall break also the images of Bethshemesh, that is in the land of Egypt; and the houses of the gods of the Egyptians shall he burn with fire.
MA 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
The one in the Vatican is of the God named Amun pronounced Amen.

Other things to look for, these are all in Matthew 6.
Right before the "Our father" prayer there is this:
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Why would they tell you to do 10 "Our father" and 15 "Hail Mary's"?
And when someone dies you have to sit there and do them over and over and over for hours, repeating the same stuff.

If you read Mathew 6 you will find that the Catholic Church does what "God" tells them not to do.

6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
6:18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

This is a big one that has bothered me for a while and now they are pretending to care because people are noticing that they are not helping, until recently the only have been paying off the people who have sued them for the priest's "wrong doings", They donated a few million for Haiti relief and made sure that it was published all over, but besides that, they can see thousands of people dying right in front of them and begging for food or water and they will not try to help them despite having money to take the hunger out of a few countries and help them develop jobs and other things.
6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

There are many other things that the Catholic church is doing and it all goes against what the bible says. The only good things that they do are highly publicized.

A few questions for all of you.
If someone that you believed was the son of god was killed by hanging him from a tree with a noose, would you parade around a tree with a guy hanging?

Would the people that killed a false son of god parade around the image of how they killed him?

If Jesus was shot on the head by a gun, would you wear a T shirt with Jesus's head blowing up?

So many things that are so obvious and blatant anti-Christ things to do that are right in front of our faces but yet we are told to follow the pastor like the sheep that we are and that is what we do.
Some times we think that people that are "above" us know it all and are much better than us because they have studied this stuff for ages, how can they be wrong?
You read the same book that they read but yet you see that they are doing the opposite, hmmmm but they know more than I do, right? I will do as I have been told and not question the doings of these people chosen by God himself, because if I do I will burn in hell.

One last thing, If you believe in the God of the bible, do your self a favor and read it and know that many people interpret it in different ways, you are smart enough now to make your own decisions and clear any doubts of what you thought was weird when you were younger.
After loooking at all the information that is out there and finding many things that were wrong, I am now an atheist looking and searching everywhere in all places to find the truths.

reply to post by AlreadyGone

I see nothing wrong with the cross or crucufix.
We do not worship the cross, we use it to remind us
of Jesus' sacrifice, death, and resurrection.
It is much like the Lord's Supper

Ok. But at what point do these "simple reminders" start becoming idols, or at the very least...acts in poor taste?

The crucifix is a symbol of the cross upon which your savior was murdered. Very often these are depicted complete with mutilated corpse, and many people wear these on chains around their necks much like collars on dogs. When you perform the eucharist you are symbolically cannibalizing his flesh, and when you drink sacramental wine you are symbolically drinking his blood.

If a pagan told you he performed ritualistic symbolic vampirism and cannibalism, and wore chains and corpses around his neck as a "simple reminder" of an ancient act of murder that he feel he benefitted from...what would you think about that?

and resurrection

Really? What about mutilated corpses reminds you of the ressurection? What about eating flesh and drinking blood reminds you of the ressurection?

If you really want to celebrate the ressurection of Jesus and not his death...couldn't you find a better way to do it?


[edit on 30-1-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by AlreadyGone


If you need reminding, surely it doesn't mean much to you. I don't need reminding of my girlfriend's birthday, but I do need reminding to buy milk.

Hello,
Not only is carrying a cross and using it in your worship idolitry, it is blindly following traditions that were carried over from other pagan religions into christianity...there is a real neat thread on the subject here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Check it out

"get out of her my people"(Rev 18:4),
"What does Gods temple have to do with idols....stop touching the unclean thing"(2 Cor 6:16-17)

Originally posted by Bananarama
Watching and reading lots of things about the Illuminati and equally about their satanic symbols and connections. One thing I'm wondering, do you think the Crucifix is still a symbol of God, or just another symbol that secretly represents Satan? I'm sure the opinions will vary so I want to hear them.

On one hand, I think it is likely to have Satanic origins, since most organized religions have them. On the other hand, I believe symbols only have the meaning you give them, so if someone used it in the name of God it would probably be different.

Will you people stop grossing about the fricken illuminati? For Catholics its a sacred symbol, for other Christians it's a more abstract item. Most ancient religions have certain icons. You think the Catholics are bad? Take a look at the Russian and Greek Orthodox church. They have a 7/11 of icons. Go figure.

I think it's disgusting.

People complain about violence on television.
What about nailing a guy to wood?

reply to post by Bananarama


The symbols of the early Christians...followers of "The Way" were, I understand, the fish and the anchor. In ancient Christian sites, archeologists have found many examples of the fish...not unlike the symbol that some modern Christians put on their bumpers.
I have no idea when the cross became a symbol.
Catholics typically have (e.g. wear) Christ-on-the-Cross ... a crucifix, while non-Catholic Christians have (e.g. wear) the cross only without the figure. For the reasons stated above of not creating an image of God.

The Crucifix, as an object, means nothing. Nothing more than a pentagram means.

It's what goes on in people's minds that gives an object power. In that respect, the Crucifix is an extremely powerful symbol, as it is empowered by the largest religion this world has ever seen, Christianity.

Now, whether that makes it "good" or "bad," again, is in the mind of the beholder. If you oppose Christianity, the Crucifix no doubt represents something extremely bad. But, then, who is the No.1 opponent of Christianity?

Satan.

So, there you go. If you're Satan, the Crucifix is going to burn your ass but good. No doubt.

Better to be on the side of the Crucifix, IMO... It's a win-win proposition.

— Doc Velocity