obama caves on KSM trail

Everyone on ATS who wants the truth about 9/11 should be jumping for joy at the prospect of a public trial... aggressive defense attorneys will subpoena the crap out of all things and people 9/11 to point out there are other suspects. Citizens dick, bush, rice and the neo-clown gang questioned under oath on the record about 9/11 would be golden... not to mention all the tasty govt cheese they'd be forced to turn over during discovery... yummy.

IMO this has more to do with the fact the govt has a weak case and the suspect would walk if given a fair and open trail. His alleged confessions were tortured out of him by the govt and are inadmissible; fail #1.. fruit from the poison tree and a disgusting display of arrogant dis-respect for US laws and american justice virtues like due process, not treating people in cruel and unusual manor.. and all that obsolete pre-9/11 stuff.

When the govt violates the rules and screws up evidence.. they lose... In this case.. they didn't just violate the rules, they dry humped the frek'n feces out of the rules and deserve a big fat humiliating epic fail for the sake of justice and respecting the rule of law.

But I'm sure justice will lose, the rule of law pooped upon.. and the notion we are a nation of laws not men can finally be put to bed. The banana empire will have a quick pre-hanging kangaroo court trial that will make kim jong ill blush, and odumba will break his arm patting himself on the back for "another win in the war against terror" under his dear leadership.

reply to post by GovtFlu


You will not be hearing from the people you mentioned. Anything they have to say about the "crime", would be hearsay and inadmissible. They can't testify to the obtaining of any evidence, directly. The only knowledge they would have of the evidence is from written reports submitted to them, by others. They did not collect any evidence, themselves.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

You will not be hearing from the people you mentioned. Anything they have to say about the "crime", would be hearsay and inadmissible. They can't testify to the obtaining of any evidence, directly. The only knowledge they would have of the evidence is from written reports submitted to them, by others. They did not collect any evidence, themselves.

It's way too early to know that, the trial hasn't even started yet. Any competent defense lawyer can make the argument there are other suspects to consider regardless of their status as political royalty.

Besides, the WH has already stated KSMs guilt is a foregone conclusion.. he is going to be killed after being found guilty. Someone should remind these fascists a pre-9/11 american virtue was "innocent until proven guilty" and torturing confessions out of innocent people is a crime.

The statement below is something I'd expect from the taliban..

WASHINGTON - Accused Sept. 11 plotter Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is likely to be executed after being tried and convicted, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Sunday.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Any competent defense lawyer can make the argument there are other suspects to consider regardless of their status as political royalty.

Even so, the attorney can only present such speculation to attempt to induce a "reasonable doubt". They still won't be questioned under oath.

Besides, the WH has already stated KSMs guilt is a foregone conclusion.. he is going to be killed after being found guilty. Someone should remind these fascists a pre-9/11 american virtue was "innocent until proven guilty" and torturing confessions out of innocent people is a crime.

Now this I agree will prove to be problematic for the prosecution. In addition to the inadmissibility of evidence obtained as a result of questioning outside the protection of Miranda.

I don't think Obama made the decision to move the case out of NYC out of deference to the people of NY, local politicians, etc.... More likely is that he realized that every single time the lawyers for the accused opened their mouths and said anything remotely controversial - he would be a target of political attacks in response (with the NY Post leading the way). It would have cost him a lot politically as these trials if held in NYC would not be short, nor entirely under the PR control of the government.

As I see it, this was a political move and nothing more. Consider the decision to hold the trial in NYC in the first place. Flying ever so slightly under the radar during that same news cycle was the Administrations decision to try other detainees in military tribunals at Gitmo.

Why the double standard?

Because this was, and is likely to be little more than a show trial. The idea that an impartial jury could be selected in New York City for a trial related to 9/11 is difficult to accept. For that reason alone NY never made sense as a location for the trial in my opinion (I suppose the defense attorneys would have pressed to have the trial moved anyway). Underscoring the idea of a show trial are the recent words of Robert Gibbs as quoted above, when he suggests it is a foregone conclusion that KSM will be executed once found guilty (I imagine he is, but what of "innocent until proven guilty"?).

Emotionally, I get the idea of trying them in NYC (part of me would like to see that happen). I can well imagine the consideration of earning political points were the trial to be a success for the government - an oversimplification of any likely outcome, the reality of which has clearly become obvious to those who charted this course in the first place.

Without this case being held in a civilian court means what our brave men and women are currently fighting for mean nothing.

Why are only military installations being considered for this? Why is the Constitutional rights of these detainess being ignored yet again?

I for one would love to have it in either Manhattan, Brooklyn or Queens NYC as to show those "responsible" for 9/11 that our Constitution is stronger now then ever before!

When they are inevitably found guilty I'd drive them each to The WTC site, make them get out and make then say a prayer for the dead and to show them that regardless of what is going on around us the Constitution and this thing we call democracy will forever endure.

I'd get a hangar at JFK, convert it to a courthouse, a detainment area, briefing area.

What is the right wing Neo Nazi's problem with holding the trials where the crimes took place? Why are they so filled with hate to the point where it's either "Military Tribunal or nothing".

I care not for the frenzy it is to become as holding the trials where the crimes were committed sends a message to every terror group out there that if you attack us we will find you, prosecute you, convict you and kill you.

Just because a few millionares are being inconvienced it is a problem? Is that what is really boils down to?

Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Any competent defense lawyer can make the argument there are other suspects to consider regardless of their status as political royalty.

Even so, the attorney can only present such speculation to attempt to induce a "reasonable doubt". They still won't be questioned under oath.

Besides, the WH has already stated KSMs guilt is a foregone conclusion.. he is going to be killed after being found guilty. Someone should remind these fascists a pre-9/11 american virtue was "innocent until proven guilty" and torturing confessions out of innocent people is a crime.

Now this I agree will prove to be problematic for the prosecution. In addition to the inadmissibility of evidence obtained as a result of questioning outside the protection of Miranda.

Imagine all the low level govt people that will be questioned / deposed, any one or combination of their statements could easily open the door to bush, cheney, rice et al being fair game for subpoena and deposition.

On top of that any number of those govt people out there could have stumbled upon some nasty cheese document, seen or heard something they weren't supposed to..

As it is bush/cheney have already made statements regarding KSM that any competent defense attorney would want to follow up on..

bush personally authorized the denial of rights and torture of KSM.. that right there is something a defense attorney will want to question bush, and everyone involved, about. Especially when former CIA officials that read reports of KSM’s interrogation, said, “90 percent of it was total f*cking bullsh*t.”

If this is going to be a fair honest by the book "blind justice" trial (which it wont but lets pretend america still exists).. bush and his neo-clown gang will have some under oath explaining to do.

Right now the govt is probably reviewing how to slime through a north korean / soviet style show trial that won't embarrass the govt or involve any of the elite, and I'm sure the propaganda ministers are mad typing away at a KSM script designed to fool enough people into believing the whole fiasco was a fair & legit demonstration of how the american way of justice prevailed.

WARNING the video on this site contains images of a tyrant liar that some may not be able to stomach without mini vomit appearing in the mouth..
thinkprogress.org...

BUSH: One such person who gave us information was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. … And I’m in the Oval Office and I am told that we have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the country. So I ask what tools are available for us to find information from him and they gave me a list of tools, and I said are these tools deemed to be legal? And so we got legal opinions before any decision was made.