Dreams and universes

Hello again fellow ATS members! May I borrow some of your time once again? so that I might mention something that I was thinking about last night? Thankyou and I will apologise in advance if I am repeating something that has been discussed before on this brilliant site, or is a well respected theory from a fantastic mind that I have not heard about before. I am sorry.

Anyway, you know how apparently there is an infinite amount of parallel universes in existence, and when we dream a new universe is created from that dream?

So, when you go to sleep, wouldn't you, in effect, be going to other universes? That way there isn't really any boundaries when it comes to travelling between universes, is there; so really, when/if people say 'It's impossible to travel to another universe because of so and so and whatever', all you have to do is sleep and you've done it.

But, another thing I wanted to ask, if you wake up in the morning with a headache, might that be because, in a dream, you've travelled to a universe that exists in a different time zone?

Thankyou for your time

Ramadwarf on the link between sleep and jet lag from universe travelling

[edit on 22-1-2010 by Ramadwarf Philes]

I have had some interesting experiences with dreaming and being in alternate universes. Sometimes the areas that are in my dreams are places I know, yet slightly altered. I do believe we travel to alternate dimensions when we sleep. Dreams are really crazy and affect me greatly.

I'm glad that you've bought this up. Honestly, I do have lots of dreams that do look very vivid as if I'm in another universe. Like, when you try to touch something/someone in your dream, it's like as if you're actually feeling the sensation. When I wake up, I'm usually in the same position I initially slept at.

I have to admit, I'm still trying to recall most of my dreams. Good question though.

S&F. I need more answers pertaining to this subject.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by street_fighter]

reply to post by street_fighter


They are the best dreams where you have a sense of what is going on and can make decisions, unlike the ones where it feels like you are just watching.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a machine that could record your dreams and you could play them back in the morning?

Dreams are wierd like that.. however I would describe it to be more like tuning in to a tv channel rather than travel. You definitely get a glimpse into some place, but your physical body never moves from the bed. All I have to do is close my eye to get these visions. Almost like a movie being projected onto a screen (the back of my eyelids

It would be a major advance to be able to reocrd these visions, but how could that be possible. I am not sure how the brain processes dream state visions, but it would way cool to playback.

reply to post by SolarE-Souljah



Yes me too....I have become aware of at least 10 alternate universes. I too think we travel into these during dreams, and interact with those who are in that dimension. I believe that we each exist in each of these dimensions, and that what happens to one happens to all in one way or another, all are affected. Synchronises are all around for me. Some days it is difficult to tell exactly where zero point reference is. I am aware of at least two separate time lines too, and know that sometimes these cross one another, I think every 20 years. Thoughts?

reply to post by SolarE-Souljah


I too dream about places I know, and they are altered; sometimes greatly. However I might have a dream where I am walking through a street that I know, but at the other end of it, the place that's there in real life is replaced with somewhere I am more familiar with; and, if I tend not to go to the place in real life that's replaced in my dreams, I will go there in a dream because I can relate to it: hence, out of curiosity, I explore the real world more.

When you say that dreams affect you, how do you mean? As I say, I tend to get a better understanding of reality by experiencing sureality, because my dreams force me to challenge the real world. In the same respect, I also appreciate how the oddness of dreams work with reality, and how knowledge can affect what I see in a closed eye vision.

So really, dreams and reality both exist along side each other, don't they? Which could be proof of the fact that all universes and realities are dreams! We have just proved it, you got it here first everyone!

Thankyou for your post

Ramadwarf on how reality and dreams work together

reply to post by street_fighter


For me it depends on what the sensation is really. Last night I drempt that a monkey-type creature was in my garden. I went out to stroke it (for some reason I was treating it like a cat) and it punched my hand. I felt it as though I had been punched on the hand, but I went to stroke it again and, once again, agony took me by the hand. Although to be honest, my hand does hurt a bit now, I must have been doing something stupid in my sleep

But yes, dreams can be amazing in the respect that they can be utterly real, despite the improbable situations one might face.

And also my dreams tend to fade away, leaving me trying to recall them; but they usually return with the right stimulus.

You usually wake up in the same position that you sleep in? Could that mean that your mind is absent as it is in another place altogether, leaving your body (for want of a better phrase) dead to the world?

Thankyou for the post, and the star and flag

Ramadwarf on monkey creatures and faded dreams

reply to post by zepar


Ooh I'm glad you mentioned a machine that can record dreams! I've had many conversations with people about such things, and it would be such a relief to be able to watch dreams back and fill in all of the gaps! You know when you can remember being in one place, and then the next thing you can remember you're in another place that bears absolutely no resemblance to the other place and you think "How on Earth did I get there from there?". Brilliant thing to think about!

Thankyou for the post, and for bringing up the dream machine!

Ramadwarf on memory gaps, and recorded dreams

reply to post by mapsurfer_


You're right, it is more like watching the tele, because your body goes nowhere (unless you sleepwalk) but the mind is able to travel, travel to places that are either thousands or millions of miles away, or so far away that they don't even exist. When I wrote the story ENDO, which I submitted in the members short story thread a couple of months ago, I was thinking of how the mind is free to travel when the body is inactive; and it is one that can have limitless possibilities, just like dreams themselves.

I suppose that when/if we do understand where dreams come from and how they work, we would be closer to understanding how to capture them and watch them through. I would imagine that the practice of dream catching would be very useful for the study of pyschology too (by which I mean thought processes and so on).

Thankyou for the post mapsurfer

Ramadwarf on his story ENDO, psychological advancements through dream catching, and infinite possibilities

reply to post by autowrench


10 alternative universes? Do they differ from one another constructionally? As I mentioned before, when I am in a particular place in a dream, it will be a collage of places that I am familiar with. You might get a particular seaside town turn up in central London.

It's almost like I'm on an island that is comprised entirely out of places that I know, rather than odd places I have never seen before (a very interesting one was comprised of paintings: it was a Roger Dean landscape, with Dali's melting clocks and those Elephants with the long legs scattered about the place, and the sky was made up of squares and triangles, like a Kasimir Malevich affair).

I like what you say about Synchronisation between the universes as well, it suggests that all are really in existence.

And you say that you aware of two diffferent timelines? Do you mean two different timelines in your dreams with the exclusion of 'reality', or are some of them the same as Reality while others differ?

If this universe is included in the timelines you speak of, the entire collection of universes (I call it the 'Macrocosm od Universes') would work like the Earth, with one side differing with the other. I suppose that the subconscious is what brings the light to them rather than the sun? If that makes any sense.

Also, 'If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?' may be a way of putting everything that we are discussing into perspective. When you're asleep, is anything happening in 'reality', and when you're awakee, is anything happening in the alternative universes?

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by the timelines 'crossing' though. Could that be compared to an eclipse? Where the Earth is left in shadow for a brief period? Maybe then there's a subconscious 'balance' or 'imbalance' that is more powerful after or at a certain time and that is what causes the time 'clash'?

Thankyou for the post

Ramadwarf on a lot of things

reply to post by Ramadwarf Philes


And you could star in your own porn films lolz.

But on a serious note, I beleive that the dreams you have greatley resemble what you have been doing a few days before the dream.

reply to post by zepar


Yes, that is an upside to things I suppose ; and I agree with you on the subject of dreams. I suppose that, no matter how off the wall a dream may be, you can always link it to something that's happened in you either in recent times or at any time.

And if you could record the dream, you could watch it through, think about what you see and hopefully by the end you'd know what it all (or most of it) represents. Then you might understand yourself better.

For example: you're engaged to be married, and you might think you're happy about it, but in a dream the bride or groom might appear to you as something horrible, repellent, and/or disgusting. Then you might say 'Well, I'm either nervous about getting married, or she/he isn't right for me at all and I now realise this, whereas before I did not.'



Ramadwarf on marriage and, once again, recorded dreams

I am currently writing a book, a free e-book to help with some of the grander concepts involving dreams.

There is a dream / reality dyad that exists where dreams are the fundamental source of reality in all spectrums of existence. The knowledge we currently have regarding dreams are insufficient in how reality is generated by this naturally occuring phenomena of consciousness.

Why consciousness dreams to create reality stems from an evolutionary process by which the principles of our current reality, and all reality flow from.

This is a type of dream right now. If we can give it an difinitive taste, it is a dream that lasts a lifetime.

During that time, we do seep into other reality systems because all there is, is a grand dreaming Universe.

The oldest religion in the world knew this, and the Veda's describe their God who has created all things as the dreamer, and we are all sub-dreams organizied into this great dream that the Veda's envision as God.

Australian aboriginals also believe that this reality is a dream. I have spoken to Native Americans who also support this concept. There is a lot of gravity to the reality that dreams and reality are a connective tissue of a conscious Universe.

We are in fact, in a dream right now; and our belief system is what masks this truth from the belief that it is anything but a dream, or related to dreams.

This is why Deje Reve, or precognitive dreams (dreams that one day later come true) occur. They reveal the creative process by which consciousness organzies thought (dreams) into realities.

The rest is all then organized into which reality the dream is intended to actualize and manifest. This reality for example is just one branch of several actualizing realities whereby dreams still play the fundamental role in organizing the expeirence of the reality.

I hope to really sink into this concept in my current book.



[edit on 22-1-2010 by YouAreDreaming]

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


Just that post was very interesting. Can't wait for the E-book.

Could you please also try and elaborate a bit more about being in a dream right now, I don't fully understand what you mean? It all sounds a bit like the Matrix.

reply to post by zepar


It is very much like "a" matrix, but not "The Matrix" as portrayed by the movie.

I am trying to very simply reduce the theory into a digestable format, and it is difficult to get at the right metaphors:

1.) The origin of the Universe is one founded on consciouness not matter.

2.) Consciousness uses organized thought to convey an experience to itself in the form of a dream.

3.) Over time, this consicousness has perfected the art of thinking so much so that it has allowed itself to create a muti-verse within itself of many reality systems all founded on the principles of thought.

4.) Dreams are organized thought and through the order of actualization; play a role in how they describe every reality system that this consciousness experiences itself in.

5.) Since all consciousness has only is itself and thought (as a material) by which to organize the experience of reality; all reality within this system of consciousness is founded on the principles of thought.

6.) The belief in matter from within apparent physical system is simply because we refuse to reduce matter back to its fundamental datagram of being a thought wave vs some ellusive wave function that collapses into particles.

7.) The vast ancedotal evidence steming from mulitple people having dreams come true are a natural occuring process by which we are seeing the initial organization of a reality data packet which must then go through a process of actualization into the correct reality system that it was intended for.

8.) If we were conscious enough to observe the initial thought processes which are organzing this pre-reality data packet; we then have a deja vu like expeirence when the dream comes true. That is the after effect and result of this process.

We are literally observing a language describing an expeirence of reality by which cosmic or universal conscious thought has played a role in organizing.

We are literally engaged in a form of cosmic role play with ourselves in the form of a dreamer, and it's dream.

The book gets deeper into this but this is my scratch at the surface analogy for this reply.

I sort of see where you are coming from now and it sounds awesome. I really can't wait for the e-book!

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


That's a 'Scratch at the Surface' reply?! If so I'm desperate to read your book, despite the fact that my head might explode in doing so.

Right, what you're saying is we are all products of a greater consciousness? Wait, I think I need to read your message/s again.

Ok, so we are the product of perfected thought? Basically everything that we know aand beyond comes from a single thought, that figured itself out so well that it created a lot of things that we, know? And we too think for ourselves (right?) within this massive thought...

I don't think I'll be coming online for a few days, I need time to get over this. Thankyou YouAreDreaming, I think your post has enlightened me on the subject of dreams and different universes, and I'm sure it will do the same to many others . So, the consciousness that founded existence, what is it? I would have said a few months ago that something like that is the 'Universe', because we are within it; but, if we don't actually exist as we think we do, then we would have no concept as to what it is, would we? Other than our minds are a variation of it?

However it does seem logical to me that we would be part of a bigger dream, because if we dream other worlds up when we sleep, it makes sense that we're part of someone/something elses dreams.

Well, good luck with the e-book YouAreDreaming, I hope to read it when it becomes available (be sure to notify us please ). I must go now, getting my head around this has reduced me to a tearful, giggling, ruin, but I am proud to say that, although I couldn't even dream of explaining it to someone, I think I understand it Good luck, and thanks for the post

Ramadwarf on YouAreDreaming's e-book, the subject of consciousness, dreams, and needing to relax.

Ah, so premonitory dreams ARE in actuality premonitions? Then in dreams we are forethinking the future. Well, that is making sense; and it's far more justifiable than just predicting the future somehow when you sleep.

There's one thing that I don't understand (well I do, but it's still confusing) and that is that all of these universes apparently occupy the same space? Ok, I have already said that I can remember a few particular places in my dreams that are practically unrecognisable from each other and reality. That would mean that in our heads are however many different universes, and because they are all in our heads, they all exist in the same space.

But, last night, I stared at the floor and tried to imagine two balls that occupy the same space. I couldn't, because if they occupy the same space, you would only be able to see one object, wouldn't you? Anything else is either cheap or false.

So that proves what YouAreDreaming said, does it not? About how everything exists within consciousness rather than physicality? Because, no matter how many balls I imagine in the same space, I will only ever see one ball, so no matter how many universes there are, there is only one existence.

I think

Thankyou

Ramadwarf on the one life and one ball represents two

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

 

That's a 'Scratch at the Surface' reply?! If so I'm desperate to read your book, despite the fact that my head might explode in doing so.

Until I am done, let me introduce you to two books based on a Mathematician and a Physicist who touch at this topic; both free and online for Ramadwawf's reading pleasure.

Mathematician: Brian Whitworth: "The Physical World as a Virtual Reality"
arxiv.org...

Physicist: Thomas Campbell: “My Big Toe”
books.google.com...=onepage&q=&f=false

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
Right, what you're saying is we are all products of a greater consciousness? Wait, I think I need to read your message/s again.

We are both the greater consciousness and the product that it creates. It reduces back to a state of oneness.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
Ok, so we are the product of perfected thought? Basically everything that we know aand beyond comes from a single thought, that figured itself out so well that it created a lot of things that we, know? And we too think for ourselves (right?) within this massive thought...

The single thought may reside within the origins of our beginning when a one consciousness thought for the very first time. Or it is absolute and has always thought and always existed.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
I don't think I'll be coming online for a few days, I need time to get over this. Thankyou YouAreDreaming, I think your post has enlightened me on the subject of dreams and different universes, and I'm sure it will do the same to many others

. So, the consciousness that founded existence, what is it? I would have said a few months ago that something like that is the 'Universe', because we are within it; but, if we don't actually exist as we think we do, then we would have no concept as to what it is, would we? Other than our minds are a variation of it?

We can decorate our metaphors to describe what “it”, the oneness of which we all came from is; suffice to say you are correct that our minds are a variation of it.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
However it does seem logical to me that we would be part of a bigger dream, because if we dream other worlds up when we sleep, it makes sense that we're part of someone/something elses dreams.

Well, good luck with the e-book YouAreDreaming, I hope to read it when it becomes available (be sure to notify us please

). I must go now, getting my head around this has reduced me to a tearful, giggling, ruin, but I am proud to say that, although I couldn't even dream of explaining it to someone, I think I understand it

Good luck, and thanks for the post

This dream / reality dyad also fits into concepts such as a “Fractal” Universe, (self-simular) or a hologram such as the Holographic Principle suggests.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
Ah, so premonitory dreams ARE in actuality premonitions? Then in dreams we are forethinking the future. Well, that is making sense; and it's far more justifiable than just predicting the future somehow when you sleep.

Fore-thinking is a good concept for progressing into the probability matrix found as potential futures existing within the reality potential of this Universal consciousness system, and it's “database” of probable futures.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
There's one thing that I don't understand (well I do, but it's still confusing) and that is that all of these universes apparently occupy the same space? Ok, I have already said that I can remember a few particular places in my dreams that are practically unrecognisable from each other and reality. That would mean that in our heads are however many different universes, and because they are all in our heads, they all exist in the same space.

You think all that space you see within your mind as it renders your visual perception into a 3D mental hologram occupies a space larger then a grape? From very small data packets come very big renderings. Think DNA to a cell that creates a body in terms of small tiny data rendered into very large models of perception. Space becomes the product of conscious rendering of data.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
But, last night, I stared at the floor and tried to imagine two balls that occupy the same space. I couldn't, because if they occupy the same space, you would only be able to see one object, wouldn't you? Anything else is either cheap or false.

I believe string theory suggest many realities or even the Many word interpretation suggest many realities within the same observable space. If all reality is, is just data waiting to be rendered by consciousness, then what we are talking about is simply data access from a central Universal database that sends up a personal data feed which renders into reality.

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
So that proves what YouAreDreaming said, does it not? About how everything exists within consciousness rather than physicality? Because, no matter how many balls I imagine in the same space, I will only ever see one ball, so no matter how many universes there are, there is only one existence.

What you are describing is the limits of human perception and the conditioning of our linear belief system within this One Consciousness into many parts system. This is quite fundamentally an astronomical consciousness reality system.

I like a quote from Brian Whitworth - “This makes this world a recursive interface, that both sends to and receives from itself. If so, it is like no other information interface that we know.”

Which is his reference to reality as being a Virtual Reality system to explain all the mathimatical and quantum strangeness that exists in modern science.