You Cannot Make Me Buy Insurance! (It's Illegal)

I know a citizen's choice not to buy health insurance cannot rationally be construed as economic activity subject to the Commerce Clause.

The Commerce Clause gives no authority for Congress to transform a citizen's individual choice to be inactivein the marketplace into a compulsion to purchase apparently unwanted insurance or be penalized.

Fox News

Never has a citizen been under threat of government fines or taxes, to purchase an unwanted product or service simply as a constitution of existing in the country. I will sue the U.S Goverment if the health care bill passes in it's current form.

Stand with me and tell your senators, and congress man that we will not be told we have to purchase a product if we do not want it. We will not be told what to do with our money. We will not support the health care of illegal aliens, and their family. We are Americans and believe in freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of all things possible.

Mod Edit - All Caps Title And To Apply Ex Tags/Attribution.

IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS

[edit on Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:39:24 -0600 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc

The Commerce Clause gives no authority for Congress to transform a citizen's individual choice to be inactivein the marketplace into a compulsion to purchase apparently unwanted insurance or be penalized. Never has a citizen been under threat of government fines or taxes, to purchase an unwanted product or service simply as a constitution of existing in the country.

Mr McCollum I presume?

We have google you know:

www.foxnews.com...

Existing Lawsuit

I will sue the U.S Goverment if the health care bill passes in it's current form.

Mmm, I guess you're not Bill McCollum.

As far as the substance of the OP ... though I am not happy with the bill in its current form I do believe that health care is a fundamental human right. It does me no good to write my congresswoman as DC doesn't get a vote. That in itself is a much greater constitutional wrong imho than the one you are outlining ... though I do respect your right to make your voice heard on the matter.

[edit on 19 Jan 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Do I need to post every thread you have created using full length material stolen sir?.. I gathered some info to make my point on health care being illegal. So if you want to flame my threads I would appreciate it if you would at least leave half of a decent comment, rather than acting like a forum ratt, who loves to argue rather than make a point.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Mr_skepticc]

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


Next time please provide proper attribution when quoting material from other websites.

Please, let's get this thread back on topic.

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
Do I need to post every thread you have created using full length material stolen sir?

Please do.

... I gathered some info to make my point on health care being illegal. So if you want to flame my threads I would appreciate it if you would at least leave half of a decent comment, rather than acting like a forum ratt, who loves to argue rather than make a point.

My, you're a little touchy for someone who just got caught plagiarizing.

Though I'm sure calling me names remedies all that.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


I don't see him flaming your thread.
He gave you a good comment and opinion.

As far as healthcare is concerned i do agree with you in that making someone purchase something they might not be able to afford or don't want should be illegal.
I also agree with Sdog in that healthcare SHOULD be a universal right.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


I have to refute that one statement there because it is not true, in that context.

Mr_skepticc

Never has a citizen been under threat of government fines or taxes, to purchase an unwanted product or service simply as a constitution of existing in the country. I will sue the U.S Goverment if the health care bill passes in it's current form.

We do face fines and or license suspension for not purchasing automobile insurance.

You get a ticket for not showing proper insurance and the insurance company snitches on you if you care not carrying insurance, whereas a long time ago they used to say nothing.

Now, back on topic, personally I believe purchasing insurance and or being forced to purchase healthcare insurance should be up the individual person, and it is not the Government's right to tell me or anyone else for that matter that we have to purchase healthcare insurance, which is ludicrous, because it equals being insured to live, like you are insured to drive, and I will be damned if I am insured to live.

Nothing I stated was directed at the original poster just my thoughts on insurance.

I get sick about once every five years and Nyquil or Theraflu takes care of that.

If I get injured, it is usually at work and I have Workers Compensation for that.

If I get injured anywhere else, it is usually in my vehicle and I have car insurance for that.

Per paycheck, for one job, when I would have been paying in $30 per check over fifteen years, I would have paid out $11,700 which I would never have gotten back.

Over those fifteen years, I have had two accidents, both work related, both either Workers Comp or vehicle insurance paid all of those bills, and I have been to the doctor or hospital maybe seven times for about $1,500 worth of expenses.

Which I paid out of pocket, because I usually work 2, 3, and 4 jobs.

Now, where is the cost savings, the benefit, or the worth for someone like me?

On top of this deep down within the Healthcare Reform Act is buried the R.F.I.D. chip.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/338cc3d8b0fa.jpg[/atsimg]

For "Medical Records" security.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3217db5a4826.jpg[/atsimg]

You can go see the actual documentation here.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aaa65ce678a.jpg[/atsimg]

Long story short, it is nothing more than a force of you getting the bio-chip, Verichip and Digital Angel, through the Food and Drug Administration.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/738827ab5d3b.jpg[/atsimg]

Notice within the information you keep seeing the F.D.A. pop up like a spam pop-up.

Political Collusion of a President and Congress in Collapsing America, The Fall of the New Rome

See, if they crashed the economy on purpose, and they did, and they can force you to get something via "medical reasons", and they are, then they can make you use it for money as well, and they will.

Bilderberger : The Global Agenda, Eugenics, Global Warming, And Biochiping Sheeple

I have confirmed, researched, cross-referenced, and thoroughly backed my my assertions.

Starred, flagged, and D.I.G.G.E.D..

[edit on 19-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Sir, the reason you are required to purchase insurance for your authomobile is that being allowed to operate a motor vehicle in most states is considered a privelige, not a right. And this is a states rights issue, not a federal issue.
Health care is not a right. It is a privilege. You have the right to find a job(which you did) You have the right to purchase health care insurance, if you choose. And you have the right to refuse the rfid chip. Which I will do. And I think most Americans will. We are not all sheep.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Sir, the reason you are required to purchase insurance for your authomobile is that being allowed to operate a motor vehicle in most states is considered a privelige, not a right. And this is a states rights issue, not a federal issue.
Health care is not a right. It is a privilege. You have the right to find a job(which you did) You have the right to purchase health care insurance, if you choose. And you have the right to refuse the rfid chip. Which I will do. And I think most Americans will. We are not all sheep.

Well, I could agree with you, except for one thing, under a National Emergency, Obama can do anything he chooses to do, in regards to the public health.

National Emergency Act : Know Your Law, When Law Is Suspended, and You May Be Arrested

Remember "Swine Flu"?

I'll get a flu shot when pigs fly,...oh wait,...damn it.

Not every one is a sheeple just as not everyone is a wolf, but you have to be a shepherd to be smarter than both the wolves hunting the sheeple, and those wolves are in the countries Capital in Washington D.C., herding sheeple.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I'd still like to know who is going to enforce this? How is this going to actually be implemented and enforced. It's going to rely on basically each and every one of us, turning eachother in, citizen against citizen.
Is my doctor going to turn me in? , not if he wants patients. The police coming to my home and checking? Federal agents, insurance sweeper teams? Or will they ATTACH it to something, some process, like possibly as mentioned earlier for reference, a drivers license, or taxes. It's all so logistically insane. Even with a disaster the chaos that would happen when this was forced would be pretty crazy. You'd be hard pressed to ever find normal on the streets, anywhere. I just dont get it!

just wanted to comment on the thread title


yes someone can make you buy insurance

look at driving in america


if you want to own a car and use that car, you are forced to buy insurance

if they can do that with a car, be sure that they can and will find a way to do that with health insurance

they will find someway somehow and if you think they cant, you are being naive

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
I'd still like to know who is going to enforce this? How is this going to actually be implemented and enforced. It's going to rely on basically each and every one of us, turning eachother in, citizen against citizen.
Is my doctor going to turn me in? , not if he wants patients. The police coming to my home and checking? Federal agents, insurance sweeper teams? Or will they ATTACH it to something, some process, like possibly as mentioned earlier for reference, a drivers license, or taxes. It's all so logistically insane. Even with a disaster the chaos that would happen when this was forced would be pretty crazy. You'd be hard pressed to ever find normal on the streets, anywhere. I just dont get it!

HappilyEverAfter, did you read my posts earlier?

It will all sync up with the Real ID Act.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Real ID Act

Demonic Creator of the REAL ID ACT Defends His Creation

The REAL ID Act of 2005 (Rearing and Empowering America for Longevity against acts of International Destruction) is a U.S. federal law that imposes certain security, authentication, and issuance procedures standards for the state driver's licenses and state ID cards, for them to be accepted by the federal government for "official purposes", as defined by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

The Secretary of Homeland Security has defined "official purposes" as presenting state driver's licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants.

The Act is a rider, formally Division B of H.R. 1268, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief, 2005.

The REAL ID Act implements the following:

Changing visa limits for temporary workers, nurses, and Australian citizens.

Establishing new national standards for state-issued driver licenses and non-driver identification cards.

Funding some reports and pilot projects related to border security.
Introducing rules covering "delivery bonds" (rather like bail bonds but for aliens who have been released pending hearings).

Updating and tightening the laws on application for asylum and deportation of aliens for terrorist activity.

Waiving laws that interfere with construction of physical barriers at the borders.

As of April 2, 2008, all 50 states have either applied for extensions of the original May 11, 2008 compliance deadline or received unsolicited extensions.

As of October 2009, 25 states have approved either resolutions or binding legislation not to participate in the program, and with President Obama's selection of Janet Napolitano (a prominent critic of the program) to head the Department of Homeland Security, the future of the law remains uncertain and bills have been introduced into Congress to amend or repeal it.

The most recent of these, dubbed PASS ID, would eliminate many of the more burdensome technological requirements but still require states to meet federal standards in order to have their ID cards accepted by federal agencies.

Through the "National Emergency" they can forcibly require anything.

H.R. 3200 Health Care Reform Bill - Obama Care links your bank account to U.S. Gov!


All of this is covered under law, which is why I keep telling people, do not pick up guns.

Pick up paperwork to run for office instead.

If we flood every office with people who cooperate to vote this stuff out, they cannot win.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


You're drawing connections between things that aren't there.

Mandatory health insurance doesn't mean mandatory doctor visits. No RFID chip, unless you want one.

What is REAL ID to you? An alteration to your state issued ID so that it has some semblence of standards with other states ID's? When the DMV and the doctor's office merge, maybe I'll see the connection. They haven't, I don't.

Just like the big, scary swine flu three months ago I feel that your worries are for naught.

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

You're drawing connections between things that aren't there.

Mandatory health insurance doesn't mean mandatory doctor visits. No RFID chip, unless you want one.

What is REAL ID to you? An alteration to your state issued ID so that it has some semblence of standards with other states ID's? When the DMV and the doctor's office merge, maybe I'll see the connection. They haven't, I don't.

Just like the big, scary swine flu three months ago I feel that your worries are for naught.

I never once said it means mandatory doctor visits.

It does however mean mandatory paycheck deductions, something I will never condone.

And the R.F.I.D. is not mandatory, now, but it starts with out as a non-mandatory thing.

And works into mandatory.

You feel how you want about this but I've read all of the laws covering this, all of the information available, and how it will be initiated through various stages.

The simple answer is by the time it is full swing people will be begging for it.

Because it will be linked to medical records and electronic money, through credit cards.

They have broken apart the whole thing and spread it out so unless you are watching every piece of the small pictures, as well as the bigger picture, you will not see it.

I watch the small pictures and large picture, on all fronts.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


Why do you think they plan to use the enforcement arm of the IRS to do the verification? They can't "force" you to buy insurance, but if they find out that you don't have it (and, by the way you're going to have to include the information regarding your health policy on your tax return) they are simply going to fine you via the IRS and it will be the same as a tax levy. The IRS can attach your wages, take over your bank accounts and have several other methods they can use to get you to pay back taxes.

Will they "force" you to buy insurance? Of course not. Not in the literal sense. They will make it a requirement to purchase insurance or be subject to fine and potentially imprisonment due to the failure to pay taxes.

Sorry, but you're paying for insurance.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
It does however mean mandatory paycheck deductions, something I will never condone.

So you're against state and federal taxes and social security deductions and whatever else they take out of your paycheck? Meh...fair enough.

And the R.F.I.D. is not mandatory, now, but it starts with out as a non-mandatory thing.

And works into mandatory.

...

The simple answer is by the time it is full swing people will be begging for it.

Because it will be linked to medical records and electronic money, through credit cards.

As the saying goes, "I for one, welcome our alien overlords!"
In all honesty, being the tech geek that I am, I would be more than happy to have a microchip implanted into the palm of my hand for financial and identification purposes. Bring on the cyborgs!

Back on topic, you can't tell a LAWMAKER something is illegal, because they can simply MAKE A LAW to make it legal. So either get with it or come up with something that will fix the problem in a better fashion.

There are problems that I, and millions of others, recognize as problems in this country and no amount of Jefferson quotes will sway my belief that something needs to be done to address those problems.

reply to post by dolphinfan


One part of the current bill will require that the IRS has access to everyone's bank account.

Did you hear that? Everyone's bank account. How are they going to do that?

With all the different banks, oops, the amount of banks are dwindling. So there are fewer banks, so what? Well the problem here is, you have to have a bank account that is accessible, correct?

A complete system that has all of your medical, IRS, Bank records, etc etc etc.

Do you get now, where SKL is going. How can one implement all of this into control? Well, introducing the new and improved RFID chip.

It is your ID, money, health care records, IRS records, Birth Certificate, everything!

Now you say, I will not get the chip. Okay, that is fine, you will have NO money, No health coverage, no job, no nothing.

You cannot exist outside the chip. Impossible.

Might be why the clamp down on all non integrated countries.

Scary yet?

the one difference between the laws requiring auto insurance and this is that not all people HAVE auto insurance, do they? I know quite a few adults that are surviving out there without driving, so thus without the insurance, and well.....can you name one 10 year old that has to have auto insurance....

health insurance IS NOT HEALTHCARE. that's one point I would like to make. I guarentee you that requiring everyone to have health insurance will not ensure everyone get the proper healhtcare! matter of fact, I would be willing to bet that if this law gets passed, there will be quite a few flowing from the "my healthcare is affordable" class to the "I just can't afford this anymore" class!
why do I say this?
part of the free market system is the ability for the consumer to chose NOT TO BY products that they feel are overprice, of poor quality. well, this law requires you to buy these products, regardless of how rediculous they become. the insurance companies will be guarenteed customers, no matter what they do!! the welfare system, medicare, medicaid, have been providing them with customers all along, and well, do a little research and you can see what the insurance companies have done after every change in those programs that has been done to extend more customers to them!

we need the overall cost of the healthcare to come down, I don't see how forcing more people into the insurance is gonna do that. it seems that as the insurance coverage has grown, the actual cost of the care has exploded! there was an article in our local newspaper awhile back, some guy went out to his car one morning and well, there was a couple cats out there fighting each other. He bent down to shoe them away, and one of the cats latched into his arm so hard that he had to shake the cat to get it to take his teeth out of his arm! well, the cats ran away. the cost of the treatment for the wound and the series of rabies shots was over $20,000!! insurance paid most of it, leaving him with something like $3,000 to pay. but well......can anyone here tell me why it would actually cost more than many of us can make in a year for this treatment? do you actually think that anywhere near a majority of us could afford this treatment without insurance. and more importantly, do you really believe that the medical institutions would be charging this much, if it wasn't for the fact that they know that for most people, an insurance company will be coming to them to negotiate that cost down to a more reasonable level? and then, at the end of it all, all there is is a bunch of bits and bits flowing from one bank to another representing dollars that if it was looked into, probably never existed to begin with!
forcing us all to take part in this scam isn't gonna solve the problem, forcing us all to actually pay for our own healthcare ourselves, might be a better path!

I was talking to my boss the other day about this law, asked him what the value of ours was, wondering if it would be below the limit, at the present it is...but, as he put it, if it did become a problem, he could just opt for a cheaper insurance plan, ya know one that has a higher deductable and such. At the most, with both me and my husband working full time, and he's unemployed, and well, I am home today and tomorrow because there is no work, well, the most we could take out of our budget would be around $100 a month for our healthcare. $1200 a year. ya, we probably could cut a little out of our budget, but my deductable at the present is $2,000....
so, well, that would be $800 of medical bills this year with no money to pay for, then next year, the unmet part would turn into 1,900, then 2,700...catching my point yet? my solution to the problem is just to wait around with a bleeding hernia till the current bill is paid off, then well, make more bills....which means, I am actually paying the insurance company for next to nothing, unless of course, that bleeding hernia turns into something that is much more life threatening, then well.....I will probably be paying on that medical bill for the rest of my life!

this bill isn't what we need! we are just subsidizing the healthcare for those that are better off than us, or worse off.

Originally posted by links234

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
It does however mean mandatory paycheck deductions, something I will never condone.

So you're against state and federal taxes and social security deductions and whatever else they take out of your paycheck? Meh...fair enough.

I have never supported and or condoned those being taken out of my paycheck.

That was however put into law decades prior to my birth.

Social Security is a joke and it will not be there by the time I am ready to retire.

I would much rather put my funds elsewhere than a system that's easily manipulated.

Washington D.C. can steal that money easier than a thief robbing it from under your mattress.

Originally posted by links234

And the R.F.I.D. is not mandatory, now, but it starts with out as a non-mandatory thing.

And works into mandatory.

...

The simple answer is by the time it is full swing people will be begging for it.

Because it will be linked to medical records and electronic money, through credit cards.

As the saying goes, "I for one, welcome our alien overlords!"
In all honesty, being the tech geek that I am, I would be more than happy to have a microchip implanted into the palm of my hand for financial and identification purposes. Bring on the cyborgs!

Well, good for you, wear your slave collar proudly.

I will not wear one.

Never.

Originally posted by links234
Back on topic, you can't tell a LAWMAKER something is illegal, because they can simply MAKE A LAW to make it legal. So either get with it or come up with something that will fix the problem in a better fashion.

Yes, just because someone can do something, however, does not mean they should.

And I most certainly can tell a lawmaker anything I feel is pertinent.

Just because they make the laws does not mean a damn thing either.

The lawmakers are usually the first ones to break those very same laws they make.

The moment every idiot on Capitol Hill is wearing an R.F.I.D. chip is the moment I will comply, and or leave America, forever.

Originally posted by links234
There are problems that I, and millions of others, recognize as problems in this country and no amount of Jefferson quotes will sway my belief that something needs to be done to address those problems.

Well, I do not believe I have quoted Thomas Jefferson, nor will I.

I have been pushing the idea that people need to quit complaining, whining, and bitching.

Actually entering politics will actually bring about a change.

Unfortunately, American's are lazy as Hell, and want someone else to enter politics.

Apathy, stupidity, and political ignorance is what I see in America now.

I am actually making a difference because I am constantly reading, researching, cross-referencing the topics I speak about, not from a "conspiracy theorist" stance, but from a future politician's stance of knowing what I will and will not stand for when I get into politics.

If you're not with America you are against America and if you support the laws passed without our consent because politician's are listening to lobbyist groups, special interest groups, and or "big business", whether it is Wal-Mart or the now largely touted "Healthcare Industry", you are against America.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Well, good for you, wear your slave collar proudly.

I will not wear one.

Never.

One man's slave collar is another man's advancement of the species and society.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidasIf you're not with America you are against America and if you support the laws passed without our consent because politician's are listening to lobbyist groups, special interest groups, and or "big business", whether it is Wal-Mart or the now largely touted "Healthcare Industry", you are against America.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

That is completely dependant on one's definition of 'America' and belief in what 'America' should be and or stand for. It's quite obvious that our definitions differ, so to me, you're against America because you don't support laws that are passed with the consent of a democratic majority (democratic in the sense of system of government, not the political party).

Stop destroying my country with your rhetoric and anarchy.