The apparent main reason why Haiti still lives in poverty... They were forced to take a loan.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
And here's France bashing the U.S. for helping Haiti.

Weird.

It s just like Chirac during the illegal Irak war, don t pay attention to both of them. USA and France are both guilty.

As the 20th century began, foreign powers, especially Germany, France and the US, repeatedly sent gunboats into Haitian waters. The most common reason for the incursions was to press Haiti to pay debts it was unable to afford. In one instance, US marines secretly entered Port-au-Prince and took the national treasure. The 1915 US invasion/occupation of Haiti was partly about forcing the country to repay its debt.

Seems the history of Haiti is all about debts leading to invasions. Certainly the debt the French made them pay is despicable, and seems worse by their criticism of the US helping Haitian's now. As long as the US doesn't expect the new Haitian's govt. to foot the bill. It looks like the world owes that country a fresh start with the west footing the bill for it.

reply to post by Realtruth


Excellent.

The good news is that people are starting to see what has always been in front of them.

There are too many cracks to just be smoothed over.

reply to post by TheBandit795



Sorry, friend, that was no loan, that was criminal extortion! When an occupying force is expelled from a Nation, they do not get paid for losing what they stole in the first place. I think France should have to pay it all back, in gold. Right now. Today. those people could sure use it. I have been hearing reports of some taking advantage of this by posting fake donation places....I hope they all rot in Hell for that.

reply to post by Skyfloating
not weird at all sky,the French realize that they will be getting squeezed out of the rebuilding of Hati and are freaking out about it.

Anyone think that the reason "the world" is in so much debt is so we have to constantly be working?

If no one was in debt, or if people "got rich", wouldn't the system kind of break down in terms of efficiency?

I can understand the hate towards the debt system but I also feel like OVERALL, it is a forced system to make us produce and consume more.

Then again, it isn't that hard to be debt free yourself, just no new fancy stuff.

It is also a bit sad that no one even thought of Haiti on a day to day basis until an earthquake rocked their world. So before I guess the pain wasn't enough to recognize, but now that literally everyone is screwed, it is time to throw in the foul flags huh?

The "I love Haiti and support them" seems to be a growing fad backed by the wrong reasons even if the intentions are good.

Just my observations.

My hobby is pointing out the obvious, so somebody probably already said it. But it wasn't a loan, it was victim compensation for all of the men women and children who were slaughtered, as well as the land and other holdings stolen.

Haiti is not poor as a result of other countries not helping them, they are poor as a result of all of the help being stolen by Haitians.

Pretty much every nation on earth as bathed in the blood of slaves, in order to get money at one time or another.
Including the nations of the slaves themselves.
The USA was just the catch-bin for ALL of it.
And, the US is only 200+ years old, with a roughly 150 year history of slavery, if you go back to when we were just beginning the Colonial era, up until abolishment.
A lot of the countries are in regions where slavery has existed for many hundreds, if not thousands of years. And, I think it is very funny that they never hear ANY grief about their slaving history.
This includes the fact that there was slavery in Africa well before the USA was even an idea.

All that being said, it is still outrageous that France forced that debt even into times of so called "Racial Enlightenment".

All the while, smiling and pointing out the evils of America. How very nice.

there was never any such thing as being poor, until money was invented....

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
Pretty much every nation on earth as bathed in the blood of slaves, in order to get money at one time or another.
Including the nations of the slaves themselves.
The USA was just the catch-bin for ALL of it.
And, the US is only 200+ years old, with a roughly 150 year history of slavery, if you go back to when we were just beginning the Colonial era, up until abolishment.
A lot of the countries are in regions where slavery has existed for many hundreds, if not thousands of years. And, I think it is very funny that they never hear ANY grief about their slaving history.
This includes the fact that there was slavery in Africa well before the USA was even an idea.

All that being said, it is still outrageous that France forced that debt even into times of so called "Racial Enlightenment".

All the while, smiling and pointing out the evils of America. How very nice.

Exactly, or should I say "Don't get me started." Nigeria sells slaves to this day, just like they sold them to traders 200 years ago destined for America. And for every one black slave in America there were five white slaves. The black slaves were more expensive because the white slaves could easily blend in if they ran away.

Every country throughout history traded slaves, France, England, all of them. It's asinine to try to pretend America is the only country that had slaves. I don't hear anyone calling Egypt out when we all know that the Exodus was all about the entire nation of Israel exiting Egyptian slavery.

I think it's really time to let it go, except for Nigeria and the Arabic countries, they are the ones trading in slavery today.

These sorts of things exist because the "leaders" elected are either bought off or extorted to betray their people. The "government" of Haiti could have and should have said "NO" to such a payoff scam but how long do they hold their job if they did? The way the NWO works is continual pursuit. If a leader said no, they would die or loose the next election or be driven from office or be kidnapped and taken to France as a political prisoner as happened in the Dominican Republic.

I dunno guys. Practically every country in the world has taken major loans. Every corporation, every business entity, every person. Even the super rich, even the wealthiest countries.

That's how economics work. Few hide cash under the mattress to pay bills. Banks give countries loans to develop their infrastucture. 99% of the time the money is repaid.

Those who cannot repay it then blame the debt burden not the bad management.

I lived in the Caribbean for a couple years. The economic disparities are shocking.

But each island has it's own history. All too commonly bad administrations choose the larcenous route of draining the economy and leaving the mounting problems to their successors.

The current solution is to enhance tourism and create tax havens for the rich. It works for places like the Grand Cayman, Curacao, etc.

Haiti and Dominican Republic are tougher nuts to crack. Large uneducated populations, too many only speak French, lack of manufacturing and exportable goods. And mindsets that do not embrace progress.

The Muslim world and China will be exploiting these beautiful and strategic places some day. Unless the French do a rethink on neo-colonialism or the Americans or British see a way to further their interests in places like Haiti.

Time will tell.

My country has taken an "impossible to return loan" from US.
The previous president was talking that he wouldn't take any loans from US and he mysteriously died.
Now the new one did and the Americans build whatever they need here.
The embassy is 5 stories up and god knows how much in the ground. It looks like a fortress. Bases somewhere, They dump some suspicious containers in the lake Ohrid, this one was shown on national news...

Originally posted by defiler
My country has taken an "impossible to return loan" from US.
The previous president was talking that he wouldn't take any loans from US and he mysteriously died.
Now the new one did and the Americans build whatever they need here.
The embassy is 5 stories up and god knows how much in the ground. It looks like a fortress. Bases somewhere, They dump some suspicious containers in the lake Ohrid, this one was shown on national news...

Every county faces the problem of corrupt governments. When there are no solid assets, resource rights are sold off. The politicians usually pocket the money or spend it on unnecessary vanity projects.

If you're lucky you have leaders who only steal maybe 10% but put the rest into the system. Most lack the restraint and foresight and take as much as they can only keeping enough in reserve to prevent uprisings.

That's why politics are so vital in struggling countries. There is money available when an economy is being brought onside. It can be used to develop a country. It's happened in Asia.

I wish you all read and understand this page : Odious debt (wikipedia)

And i hope you will act in concequences

You are a citizen in a democracy : so act as a citizen with rights.

( i we never use our few right, we have no right ).

reply to post by TheBandit795


S&F, thanks for showing us the information. I have been meaning to do some more research on Haiti lately but haven't had the time, and since you beat me too it you found information I may have overlooked myself so kudos to you.

I think Jimi Hendrix said it best:
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Really, when people learn that money means nothing (which truly it doesn't show anything that is real, or that means anything unless you are a greedy SOB) and that being a good person goes a long way in this world things will become much different & better. I am sad to read that so many people die everyday because lack of MONEY - yes it's been happening for a very long time, but let's go back hundreds of years... were people dying as rapidly from starvation as they do now? I doubt it. Why? Because people were survivalists, so even if they had no gold/silver to trade they could always use their skills/labor to get food/water or they could even hunt it themselves.

Now we have people so sick and starving that need medications in order to get better that they cannot even get up to go steal a loaf of bread... how sad is that seriously?! I am all about being a good person and all, however stealing to survive is fine by me. A mom and pop store losing a couple loafs of bread and some water isn't going to make them bankrupt and honestly it's going towards a good cause. I know I'd never call the cops on someone for stealing basic supplies, I'd rather just tell them to take what they need and be on their way but I'd also try and help them out in any way possible.

And then because of all this, there's violence. And we all know when people are desperate they will do anything, literally anything, to get what they need. Ever watch the movie John Q? Denzel Washington's character does what he has to do in order to save his son, if you haven't seen it I suggest you watch it, it's a very moving and very well acted movie. But that's besides the point. The point is, everyone is a greedy bitch nowadays, especially countries who think they are more powerful than another - which turns them into bullies. I live in the US, I'm 100% American, and you know how I feel? I feel like an asshole. Why? Because look at how our country treats others! Yes they are helping out in Haiti right now, but not because they are loving human beings, but because they are expected to do so. It's not like the elite are crying over the dead in Haiti like many people are doing so tonight/this morning as I type this.

This subject really gets to me because I'm sick and tired of all the greed in this world. I wish money would disappear and people got what necessities they needed by how much they give to the community. And no I'm not suggesting communism in any way, I'm saying if you're a doctor yes you will get more respect and security than others who didn't take the time to learn and study in medical school.

We should get rewarded on what we have to offer, and then those who are lower on the latter should be helped by those who have much to offer. This way everyone is happy, and everyone is giving, caring, loving, and actually showing humanity.

Oh and by the way, I apologize for the words I used in this post but honestly I hope no mod removes them, it needs to be said and I don't think some small 'bad words' are going to harm anyone. When it comes to these pricks robbing Haitians of their money or really anyone robbing anyone else, it really gets to me. Who says it's okay to charge people for a loan that they needed to SURVIVE? How is it right to shoot up the loan amount with interest? Okay yes I get it, you got loaned money and now they are down that much cash so they want some extra for helping you out. Why can't people understand that some people really just need to be helped out, as in a friendly manner and not ask for anything in return?

Sorry for the rambling but like I said, it must be said and I had to voice myself here.

That loan/threat really is disgusting, perhaps now the French will give some of it back? yeah, right.
I was glad to see The American once more step up to the plate, they are doing something, and the Brits sending a ship load of supplies
Apart from the French sending rescue teams, anyone know what Brazil, Japan, China, India, Russia are doing to help?? the Arab countries? Any eastern country?
Being interesting to learn what charity means to some/all of those 'civilised' countries.

Well, you know part of the problem is that people over their keep on having children they can't take care off. Since a large number of the population is Catholic and doesn't believe in birth control people have 6, 7 8, 9 and more kids. So, how is everybody else to blame for that? Countries all over the world have been able to come up from bad situations. People need to take a stand and make something of themselves. Instead of constantly blaming other people and countries etc. There is always somebody giving somebody else a perfect excuse.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

In 1825 Haiti never should have had to pay France $21 billion (in 2004
dollars) to compensate French slave-holders for their loss of property
(now free Haitians). This debt, paid under threat of invasion and
exclusion from international commerce, took Haiti 120 years to repay.

www.zmag.org...

Incredible... I have had it with all the stories of how Western countries have forced loans down the throats of other countries (with the threat of military action if they refuse to take the loan). Makes me think that this is the main reason why there is poverty on the planet and why there exist such thing as a third world.

What do you guys think about this?

The reason there is threat of military action is because the CIA, and through them the military, is owned by the banks and works as their enforcement. When farmers refuse GM seeds they were harassed by CIA. Blackwater/Xe is probably part of that. This is not just recent, this has been the problem down through history. That's why we have a FED. Every citizen on the planet, not just Americans should read The Creature of Jekyll Island.Chapter six concerns the banks taking over South America with IMF "loans" that are just traps, but also that the loans were engineered to be impossible to pay with the overall purpose to force a bailout by US taxpayers.just because fiat money is free for the FED, it is not free for the US taxpayers. They "print"it up from thin air, loan it to us at interest and we send it to defaulting countries to pay the banks who ARE the FED,We've been sending hundreds of billions of dollars to various countries to help them pay the interest on their loans to the banks, so the banks would not suffer any loses and to keep the interest coming on loans that will never be paid off.If we had let them default we would have saved the taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars. The whole system is rigged for that. The Rockfellers and Rothschilds are behind it and were behind the FED, but the Rothschilds wrote up the game plan two hundred years ago. JFK was assassinated because he got in their way. Our economic collapse is caused by these bankers,not by our buying too much stuff from China. This stuff is our history, but doesn't appear in our kids textbooks because, surprise surprise the bankers control our kids textbooks as well and they own the Congress that passes laws to make it easier for them to fleece us and they own Obama who probably went to Pakistan, working for them in the CIA, before they decided to run him for President.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by m khan]
PS Brzezinsky is a mentor of Obama and also of Tim Osman (AKA Osama ben Laden) Could they have met in Pakistan, Obama and Osama? People during th ection making jokes about Obama/Osama may have been more right than they knew.imoh

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[edit on 20-1-2010 by m khan]
One good point made by G Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island, is that when we give to governments the result can only be socialism, because governments can only make socialism they are incapable of making a democracy. Democracy has to be from the ground up.


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Originally posted by grandnic
I'll have to check if it is true, but I heard on the radio last week that France has proposed the cancelation the national debt of Haiti.

This is exactly what The Creature From Jekyll Island is all about. The next step is to convince the legislature that the country needs to be bailed out, at taxpayer expense and stick it to the taxpayers as a fiat loan out of thin air for them to pay interest on. It is not a benevolent gesture to forgive a loan. It's not the banks forgiving the loan!!!!!!!! It's way way past time to take back America.
Guess the French should be thinking that way as well.
The IMF is our taxpayer money as well because it's an extension of the Fed. This is what happened in America, this is how we lost control. When the government/banks found out that they could get unlimited money out of us they went with it.

The Creature from Jekyll Island should be required reading for graduation from high school. Our state legislature should mandate this. If our students are too dumb, or too dumbed down to understand it, then they should get tutoring.



[edit on 20-1-2010 by m khan]

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