Çatalhöyük, the Neolithic City that pre-dated the Ancient Egyptians by 4,000 years!

Originally posted by kaffemoka
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

I'm mostly a watcher on ATS, though I have a question that prompted me to post today.

Watching the show "live after people" last year prompted me to consider how little of our civilization would be left in 200-300 years, let alone 2000-3000, or 20,000-30,000. Don't you think it's plausible that there were many, many great, advanced civilizations on this planet over the course of history, and through natural disaster, maybe man-made destruction, interplanetary conflict, there is little or no trace left?

Unearthing a civilization like this gives us a glimpse, maybe one single snapshot of what may have been going on here on earth long ago. I don't think we even have 1% of our human history traced.

Do you think it's possible, that buried deep below us, even below this recently discovered city, lies the remnants of a civilization more advanced than our own? I am beginning to think we're part of a great cycle here on earth and that in 10,000-20,000 there may be a group of "people" studying some random artifacts left behind by our culture that somehow outlasted time, but that observed out of context would lead those "people" to view us as primitive, or something entirely different that what we are....?

It takes time before babies become children and children become adults.

as a species, we are barely at grips with the concepts of letting go of faith and using reason and logic as our means of navigating our history and science.

With time, small memes are released slowly and progressively. The 40's saw the advent of ufo-mania and the end to global scale wars, the 50's saw the transportation infrastructure realized in the western industrial nations, the 60s brought us into outer space, the 70's put us on other worlds physically, the 80's saw conflicts resolved through surgical warfare, the 90s brought intellectual chaos and the naughts, well, we shall see what comes of this age we are now in.

when our mentalities (or at least those of the most mature, most industrialized nations) are ready for it, it will be revealed that indeed there were huge global civilizations that existed and functioned across our planet.

It is not in the best interest to reveal them or the catastrophies that felled each because you would see a lack of motivation start to set in in teh populace.

If there is no hope for a brighter future, then there is nothing but despair.

You can't build a world on despair, but you can build one on hope.

reply to post by kaffemoka


I too beleive we are a species of amnesia.
We just simply cant or are not supposed to remember the path that lead us to our modern civilization.
Imagine what the earth has recycled or covered with eons of weathering.
It realy is an amazing concept

Originally posted by djusdjus
Is not older than Jericho.

Is one of the oldest cities on the planet though.

Jericho is older and is still in use!

en.wikipedia.org...

While Jericho as a settlement is certainly older than the Catalhoyuk site, there is no way that it could have been considered a CITY before Catalhoyuk.

The population of Catalhoyuk is estimated to be in the thousands at a time when Jericho was merely a settlement.

So I still stand by the statement that Catalhoyuk is the oldestcity, of course there are older settlements going back tens of thousands of years.

All the best, Kiwifoot!

reply to post by rnaa


RNAa, in what way do you find this technology significant in society 'today'?

Epigenetic



[edit on 21-1-2010 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by Perseus Apex

RNAa, in what way do you find this technology significant in society 'today'?

Epigenetic

PERSEUS APEx, in what way do you find this question significant in this thread 'today'?

reply to post by kiwifoot


Thanks so much for this post --- I'm uploading a photo of a salt shaker I took when I visited the site in early 2000. That item, to me, just made that world so sophisticated --- here I was thinking cavemen with spears, and they had salt shakers.

interesting selection of female idols

interesting selection of male idols


its a funny olde world.

reply to post by kiwifoot


This is an awesomely well done post. Thanks for your hard work!

The idea that ancient civilisations somehow had connections with ET in the sense aliens built the Pyramids etc, has long amused me. It is well established in archaeological circles, that the 'grandeur' of the Egyptians etc captures the imagination. The structures are glamourous. Less glamorous archaeology like digging up ancient cities doesn't get the coverage it is due. However most archaeologists acknowledge that ancient Egypt was not the advanced Society that somehow is accredited with being the first real civilisation.

The plains of Turkey as described pre-date Egyptian society by thousands of years. What is not generally known and is often supressed by the Church, is that the Black Sea is 300 feet deeper than it was some 7400 years ago, where before, it was a giant freshwater lake, with a surrounding 12 mile (ave) fertile plain. This flooded at the rate of 6ft per day and flood waters roared across it, forcing the residents to flee.

That event gave rise to the Biblical Flood myth and indeed, the known world did flood. But by no act of God. What is now the Bosphorus was a land bridge holding back the rising Mediterranean. Eventually breaking through under the sheer weight of water, the Black Sea was inundated by sea water. This is known, as the now sea bed, is encrusted with a species of freshwater snail still endemic to the great estuaries opening into the Black Sea.

Ballard of Titanic fame used his submersible in the 1980s to discover that Turkish lakeside plain strewn with Neolithic villages, still intact, Pompeii style. The Soviets knew this on their side, but suppressed it until communism collapsed and people were free to exchange info'.

300ft down, the water is deoxygenated, allowing vulnerable materials like wood to be preserved for accurate carbon dating. What astounded archaeologists then, was large quantities of linen. This meant vast areas of Flax must have been cultivated, proving organised agriculture on a massive scale was taking place. Also confirming developed technology of weaving looms. These peoples far pre-dated anything in the Nile valley & delta.

Those surviving the 'Biblical' flood dispersed into Europe and southwards into the south eastern Med' area. The knowledge carried by these people almost definately kick started agriculture and technological advancement in what is now the general Middle East area.

Female deities are rife in ancient Med' cultures. The coming of organised religion as we know it killed off females in favour of males dominating the leadership scene. In some cultures, the high priests would publicly castrate themselves to demonstrate loyalty to the female ruler.

This act was frequent in lands now also under the Med', on the plain between modern Tunisia and Sicily. Before the Med' started to fill with meltwater, there was a giant freshwater lake on that plain, central to which was a powerful city ruled by women, which traded across the region. Eventually, it submerged under the rising sea - but suddenly. Science has established that a sudden sea rise took place at that time and forced the Bosphorus breach, by an influx of water from Canada. The retreating ice created a lake covering most of Canada, which ruptured the ice wall holding it back as melting weakened it. A smaller breach occured too in the Baltic. That was the sudden 'sinking' of great cities. But, they didn't sink, the sea rose. Tunisian fishermen still trawl up large clay pots from this area and use them as Octopus traps.

The science is there as is the archaeological evidence and gradually it is all marrying up. Much to the annoyance of the Christian churches. Noah's Ark would have been nothing more than a boat built of straw, not wood.

Those studying languages believe the tongue spoken by the Black Sea people was proto Semtitic. And Gilgamesh's travels support this too. He crossed the Bosphorus in a straw vessel with a submerged 'sail' (a rope and sack of rocks) to exploit currents.

[edit

[edit on 22-1-2010 by ScottX]

have you looked at the ATS link on Puma Punku? There is actually a lot of info on the net about this place. I had never heard of it or Catalhoyuk or Gobeki Tempe until I got on ATS. GREATS POSTS!

reply to post by kiwifoot

This is an extraordinarily beautiful and informative post.

However, we should keep in mind Michael Tellinger's work in South Africa. From the photos on his site, it seems clear that he has found something man-made. His group estimates it to be at least 75,000 years old. Understandably, it is an extremely eroded site, and also silted over in its lower elevations, so would require considerable excavation to determine its possible true extent.

I personally have no doubt that there were advanced civilizations on earth long before "the flood" ever happened, but considering the destructive forces that have played over the planet even in the relatively recent past, I find it quite amazing that anyone has discovered ruins that could conceivably be that old.

His site, for better or worse, is designed to sell his book. But I know from reading his earlier book and hearing interviews with him that he is totally devoted to finding out more about these South African ruins. Not being a scientist himself, he does not confine himself to the sometimes painfully conservative pronouncements that we expect from the scientific community. But even taking his over-enthusiasm into account, I think he has discovered something valuable.

www.adamscalendar.com...

reply to post by l_e_cox

However, we should keep in mind Michael Tellinger's work in South Africa. From the photos on his site, it seems clear that he has found something man-made. His group estimates it to be at least 75,000 years old.

Tellinger's a stranger to facts. 'Adam's Calender' is only supported by him and a friend. Compare his book and website (slave species) to archaeologists accounts and local history.

reply to post by ScottX


I do know about the flood and it's not just that area but most societies across the planet have a flood myth and recreation in their history. So whatever happened glacier melt may have contributed to it. Also during the last ice age, the worlds seas where at least 120 to 150 meters lower in depth, I believe if you take into account evaporation also it may have been close to 300 meters (weather, humidity etc.) In some of my posts I posted links to sites that have interactive maps that you can lower and raise see level, and you are correct in fact the Red Sea would have been considered a small lake surrounded by alot of land but also the Persian Gulf after lowering the sea by 300 meters was a slender lake too with a land bridge. There may have been many super massive glacier lakes waiting inside the glaciers behind ice dams before they broke and massive amounts of water where unleashed (heck the ice glacier thickness in new york was about a mile high, so you can imagine the amount of water that could have been trapped).

Originally posted by kaffemoka
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

I'm mostly a watcher on ATS, though I have a question that prompted me to post today.

Watching the show "live after people" last year prompted me to consider how little of our civilization would be left in 200-300 years, let alone 2000-3000, or 20,000-30,000. Don't you think it's plausible that there were many, many great, advanced civilizations on this planet over the course of history, and through natural disaster, maybe man-made destruction, interplanetary conflict, there is little or no trace left?

Unearthing a civilization like this gives us a glimpse, maybe one single snapshot of what may have been going on here on earth long ago. I don't think we even have 1% of our human history traced.

Do you think it's possible, that buried deep below us, even below this recently discovered city, lies the remnants of a civilization more advanced than our own? I am beginning to think we're part of a great cycle here on earth and that in 10,000-20,000 there may be a group of "people" studying some random artifacts left behind by our culture that somehow outlasted time, but that observed out of context would lead those "people" to view us as primitive, or something entirely different that what we are....?

There's a man named Lloyd Pye who theorized that man was genetically altered in the ancient past and that explains why we seem not to be truly fitted for this planet. If you check YouTube with his name he has a 2 hour presentation that got me wondering about hominids and humanity, I don't believe all he says about Nubiru crashing into the planet but I do believe he has part of the puzzle. Much of our past may be hidden under the ocean because if the seas was lower by at least 120 meters or more during that time, it's quite possible that much of it was flooded. Especially since many civilizations build their cities close to a large body of water. And over 20 or 30 thousand years or so, much of what we knew could be covered or weathered away to dust or under a desert. We truly our a society that has amnesia either on purpose or by cultural edict. Just as the flood myth that is in the bible truly came from the flood story from Babylon which it's story came from the Sumerians, where did theirs come from.

The researchers of the bible don't make comment about this or even acknowledge it, how come. If they acknowledge that the flood myth is actually a third party as far as we know it hand me down of an incident that happened before Sumerian times and it's real, then whats to say the other written records from Sumeria isn't real also. They are afraid of those legends of beings coming from the sky and being teachers and such of man and creating man etc. etc.. I truly believe we will find something so profound (ten times Puma Punku) that it will show without a doubt that man was a planet spanning civilization at a time that scholars said we shouldn't have had animal husbandry.

www.lloydpye.com...

[edit on 29-1-2010 by hoghead cheese]

reply to post by hoghead cheese
I think Lloyd Pye is genetically altered from a banana. His claims are without substance. He selects what we likes from science and condemns the rest. His starchild skull is a reflection of what comes when you cherrypick evidence after forming a conclusion.

Great thread and deserves a bump