Çatalhöyük, the Neolithic City that pre-dated the Ancient Egyptians by 4,000 years!

reply to post by kiwifoot


WTF???

It is not exactly known why the horns of cattle adorn many of the walls in the homes of these Neolithic people. Obviously it is out of some sense of respect to the animal, it has been theorised that the platform in front of the horns is a place of ritual or worship.

...Or maybe the horns are just part of a primitive sofa made with fur and leaves, instead a private worship platform in honor to the Cow-goddess...

C'mon, why jump to conclude that these ancient people were stupid cow worshipers?? Remember that in those days, the ancient astronaut gods were walking on Earth, and THEY were the gods, not cows.

Sorry people, ain't joking about the ancient astronaut theory, but about the "cow-goddess-worship-platform", oh boy

[edit on 19-1-2010 by ucalien]

Star and Flag! Great post, great work!

Thank you for sharing this information with us all, this excavation caught my eye as so many others have.
Just makes me wonder how were those ancient times like??

The piece I found the most intriguing was regarding the obsidian trade.

If they feel that the people of this city were trading in Obsidian, and that Obsidian from this region was found in China, Syria, and around the Mediterranean, then does that not suggest that there may have been well established cities in those regions as well?

Trading is a two-way street. While quick trading could be done with passing nomads, long-term trade suggests a counterpart civilization on the other end of the trade route.

reply to post by ucalien


Yes I know that would be an absurd conclusion, but, researching more in depth the horns might mean a lot to them than it is now. As you may find out we are in constant cycles of each age, each age represents different zodiac signs or symbols, it is said that we are still in the Age of Pisces symbolized as a "fish" heading toward a new age of "Aquarius" the water bearer. So I am not surprised that in those ancient times was in fact the age of "Taurus" the bull, bulls have horns. So they probably adored the bull horns just as we adore the stars, all these zodiac signs we can see in the stars.

Love and Light to all!

reply to post by kiwifoot

The people of Çatalhöyük buried their dead within the village. Human remains have been found in pits beneath the floors, and especially beneath hearths, the platforms within the main rooms and under the beds.

Wasn`t there a similar practice in some Central or South American culture , of burying/ encasing the dead in clay beneath where they slept . They also lived in `high rise` buildings ... ?

Pueblo Indians comes to mind , i could be way out here .....

I`ll have to go find out .

===========================================
I can`t find any reference to the practice in the Americas , i must of come across this before and got the culture mixed up .



Great OP.
Fantastic photos .:

[edit on 19-1-2010 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by evo190

The women figurines suggest some very well fed matriarchs! Or do you think it's just the artist creating his "dream" girl? It's safe to say the idea of "junk in the trunk" is an ancient obsession!

According to Marija Gimbutas (The Language of the Goddess page 165)

...it should be obvious that, in the prehistoric era, fat female posteriors had quite other than erotic significance. This symbolism expressed reverence for supernatural potency, expressed by the doubling device, the "power of two".

reply to post by Croda


Before we talk of trade, we must find out how many specimens of obsidian from this region were found in China. If it is only one (rare but it could be) then other plausible explanations may play. If there are many then it is probably trade and perhaps not a one-time trade, in which case Chinese artifacts/goods should be there also. Syria and Mesopotamia are close enough for more stable trade relations, that one is far more possible and easy to accomplish.

Originally posted by ucalien
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

WTF???

It is not exactly known why the horns of cattle adorn many of the walls in the homes of these Neolithic people. Obviously it is out of some sense of respect to the animal, it has been theorised that the platform in front of the horns is a place of ritual or worship.

...Or maybe the horns are just part of a primitive sofa made with fur and leaves, instead a private worship platform in honor to the Cow-goddess...

C'mon, why jump to conclude that these ancient people were stupid cow worshipers?? Remember that in those days, the ancient astronaut gods were walking on Earth, and THEY were the gods, not cows.

Sorry people, ain't joking about the ancient astronaut theory, but about the "cow-goddess-worship-platform", oh boy

[edit on 19-1-2010 by ucalien]

Ah let me explain, at this point it was 2am in the morning and I'd been working on this thread for over 6 hours!

I didn't say the place in front of the horns was a platform FOR COW worship, although I could have made it clearer.

I said it was simply A PLACE OF worship.

And yes, the horns were placed there as I believe the cow must have been important for these people, so strictly speaking the horns were there out of respect to the animal.

At no point did I mention COW WORSHIP, if you read carefully, but I can see how you could misconstrue my words!

All the best, Kiwifoot!

Originally posted by CognitiveInfiltrator
The absolute oldest such site though, is Gobekli Tepe, also from turkey, which dates to 9000 B.C. 11,500 years ago. I find that date fascinating because it corresponds to:

The Younger Dryas "Event" of 10,900 BP (before present

The earliest civilization in the Americas,Norte Chico , oldest radiocarbon (yet) dated to 11,220 BP

Famously, Plato's assertion of the destruction of Atlantis "9,000 years before the time of solon" or approximately 11,610

The site itself is interesting for many reasons.

Genetic analysis has suggested that it was the area wheat was first cultivated.

When it was abandoned in 8,000, it was deliberately and extensively covered up, and has therefore been well preserved.

Also, from This Article,

"Look at this", he says, pointing at a photo of an exquisitely carved sculpture showing an animal, half-human, half-lion. "It’s a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt. Southeastern Turkey, northern Syria - this region saw the wedding night of our civilization."




[edit on 19-1-2010 by CognitiveInfiltrator]

Thanks for that info friend, I'll be looking into your links as soon as I can. Especially Gobekli Tepe!

All the best, Kiwifoot!

Originally posted by shamhat
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

You don't feature a picture in your posts, but what has always intrigued me about this site is the figurine of the god Bes that was found there. It contradicts all known information about Bes by it's very presence in Turkey at that time. There seems a reluctance to acknowledge that the discovery of these phallus gods is suggestive of a suppression, here and at other sites in Central Europe, at some point, of the male role in creation.

It's a very interesting site, as are the others that have more recently been uncovered around the Black Sea. Thanks for posting.

I didn't come across that in my research (which may prove your point!), I'll do some digging and report back as adding a little conspiracy to a thread is always good on ATS!

[edit on 19-1-2010 by kiwifoot]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

Bloody good thread Kiwi. Again, well-laid out, interesting and colourful. I'm kinda bummed out that there's not much to add to the OPs. Here's a couple of images you missed...


Museum reconstruction of a room at Çatalhöyük


'Mother Godess flanked by two lions.'

Crikey! She sure was a pretty young thing! I'm sure she'll be going in the porn folders of many a younger ATS member...growl

Cheers for those mate, much appreciated, the reconstruction really brings the dwelling descriptions alive, as for the figurine....well you got it in one!

reply to post by shamhat

You don't feature a picture in your posts, but what has always intrigued me about this site is the figurine of the god Bes that was found there. It contradicts all known information about Bes by it's very presence in Turkey at that time. There seems a reluctance to acknowledge that the discovery of these phallus gods is suggestive of a suppression, here and at other sites in Central Europe, at some point, of the male role in creation.

Again, according to Marjia Gimbutas (The Language of the Goddess chapter 17)

...Male figurines constitute only 2 to 3 percent of all Old European figurines and consequently any detailed reconstruction of their cult role is hardly possible...

Never-the-less there are many paintings of male figures, especially in pre-agricultural cave dwellings. "The natural rhythm of the male is a phallic one of rise and fall...The myths would, therefore, quite naturally tell stories in which the male is the climactic, tragic figure of flourish and vanish" (William Irwin Thompson, 1981). So the fantastic depictions of animal masked and other shamanic figures in ritual scenes are generally associated with the "God of Wild Nature" as "Master of Animals" and the dying and self renewing vegetation.

...it must be remembered that statistics of Neolithic sculptures are based on what was found within the houses, shrines, or temples, and the God of Wild Nature must have been worshiped in the wild.

However,

At Catal Huyuk, a white marble sculpture of a male god seated on a stool with hands on knees was found in the Bulture Shrine VLA25 (Melaart 1967: pl. 84) - an obvious association with the aspect of death.

There is a transition here from the Hunter/Gatherer society to the Agricultural society, from a cult worship of 'Wild Nature' symbolized by the male cycles of the rise and fall of the seasons, to the cult worship of fertility symbolized by the female cycle of reproduction, farming, and animal husbandry.

According to Joseph Campbell, pre-agricultural society would have had pretty clear cut responsibilities for male and female. Man would hunt, woman would gather. With the rise of agriculture, woman became responsible for nearly everything, leaving the men to stew in the ignominy of near superflousness (especially since the male role in reproduction was not understood). Matriarchy and the Cult of the Goddess prevailed over the world of Civilization. It is during this period that figurines, at least of the quality that would survive to today, were 'invented'. Little wonder that the Venus statues predominate.

By the way, Campbell mentioned Catal Huyuk in the preface to the 1969 edition of The Masks of God: Primitive Mythology and stressed its importance, quoting Melaart:

"we can actually study the transition from an aceramic Neolithic with baskets and wooden vessels to a ceramic neolithic with the first pottery." Along with this pottery, furthermore, which is the earliest yet discovered anywhere, there have also come to light the earliest known neolithic figurines, in association with some forty or more symbolically ornamented chapels - revealing, in superb display, practically all the basic motifs of the great mother-goddess mytholoties of later ages. And these earliest known neolithic figurines are of an easy, natural, lifelike grace, not the least "archaic," primitive, or stilted.

Eventually, of course, men formed secret societies and warrior castes, and the pendulum swung to Patriarchy. This seems to have happened pretty much all at once all over the world. In some societies, this often times violent reversal was accompanied by claims of female perfidy being put to rights. Campbell suggests that the story of Adam and Eve may be one such 'propaganda' piece to justify the male actions.

What I see here is the formation of an idea, not just the beginnings of the 'battle of the sexes', but of light versus dark, of 'good' (civilization) versus evil (wild nature), even of God(dess) versus Satan (the horned shaman figures of the pre-agricultural deep cave cults. Perhaps the enclosed city of Catal Huyuk demonstrates this opposition with the wall being the physical representation of the separation of 'civilization' from 'wild nature'.

Terence McKenna talked about Çatal Höyük, he suggests that they worshiped the cow because the sacred mushroom grew on the dung of the cows. I think it's in Food of the Gods.

Kiwi, did anything among the things found in the site connect to India? I have a very scary feeling if even a bone or stone out there did

reply to post by UmbraSumus


I have to agree with you about the pueblos, I think I will take time to read up on them because there history of people coming into being talks about them coming from underground into the world and/or from under the water. Can someone say after the damage done from the cataclysm people coming out to live again.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh by the way the ancient Pueblo people where refered to by the Navajo as the Anasazi (which is a prejorative because it meant the Ancient Ones or Ancient Enemy). Something about those people rubbed the others the wrong way over the milleniums.

en.wikipedia.org...

Wow what an amazingly informative and exciting thread kiwi!!! I have never heard of this before!

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by SerialLurker

 

The first image of the figurine you posted bears a strong resemblance to the Venus of Willendorf - en.wikipedia.org...

With respect to the large number of animal statue finds, the Goddess had a lot of 'helpers' or incarnations. The bird statue for example, is the

main epiphany of the Goddess as Giver-of-all, including life and death, happiness, and wealth; alias Fate. Waterfowl (duck, goose, swan) bring happiness, wealth, nourishment; birds of prey (vulture, owl, raven, crow) are omens of death and epiphanies of the Death Wielder; prophetic birds (cuckoo, owl) prophesy spring, marriage, and death; birds of the soul (dove, cuckoo, and other small birds) are seats of the souls of the human dead.

(Gimbutas 1989, glossary entry for Bird, page 322)

[edit on 18/1/2010 by rnaa]

I'm surprised that quote made no mention of the Christian religions use of the stylized bird (dove) as a sign of peace, etc. Perhaps it was a much later adoption and not historically relevant to far earlier usage?

Is not older than Jericho.

Is one of the oldest cities on the planet though.

Jericho is older and is still in use!

en.wikipedia.org...

I have been breifly reading through this very interesting thread and am curious if here are any statues or relics of any ancient astronaut type items i really would like to see any pics. wish i had more time to read all the details. will check in later.
Peace folks

reply to post by kiwifoot


I'm mostly a watcher on ATS, though I have a question that prompted me to post today.

Watching the show "live after people" last year prompted me to consider how little of our civilization would be left in 200-300 years, let alone 2000-3000, or 20,000-30,000. Don't you think it's plausible that there were many, many great, advanced civilizations on this planet over the course of history, and through natural disaster, maybe man-made destruction, interplanetary conflict, there is little or no trace left?

Unearthing a civilization like this gives us a glimpse, maybe one single snapshot of what may have been going on here on earth long ago. I don't think we even have 1% of our human history traced.

Do you think it's possible, that buried deep below us, even below this recently discovered city, lies the remnants of a civilization more advanced than our own? I am beginning to think we're part of a great cycle here on earth and that in 10,000-20,000 there may be a group of "people" studying some random artifacts left behind by our culture that somehow outlasted time, but that observed out of context would lead those "people" to view us as primitive, or something entirely different that what we are....?