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Christians, submit to your rulers! Dissent is wrong!

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posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:59 PM
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Romans 13, in the Christian Bible (NIV version) states:


"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."


When I first read that, I figured it must be the most disappointing chapter of the Bible! After all, why pay taxes when the money all just gets given to some banker on Wall Street? But after when you consider its definition of authority it really is not so bad at all... and possibly even makes a lot of sense. Look at how the chapter actually defines what a ruler is:

"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong."
This verse establishes the definition of a ruler as someone who leaves alone someone in the right, but possibly terrorizing those who are doing wrong. Its only possible weakness would be in defining "wrong"... I think where cultures disagree on what is wrong it may be tricky to establish just who is the ruler as opposed to an impersonating thug.

"[Rulers are] an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer"
This verse is yet again defining a ruler as someone who is out there punishing wrongdoers... and by implication leaving alone those who have done no wrong! It doesn't define a ruler as someone funneling cash to Wall Street bankers... it defines a ruler as someone who leaves people alone unless they are doing wrong. Sounds like who wrote that could have been very libertarian... possibly even a minarchist!

"If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

Pay your taxes if you are a Christian, but if you are "paying your taxes" to an agent who is bringing wrath upon those who have done no wrong, and leaving alone many people who are doing wrong, you are not paying your taxes... but rather paying off a mafia protection racket. I advise all Christians to strongly consider just who the rulers are these days and who are simply agents of a mafia protection racket. A good hint to run with is that real rulers do not need to demand money at gun point with an implied threat of being thrown in a cage if you don't hand it over.

I'm actually copying & pasting from a blog, with permission, but I do pretty much agree with the analysis. I believe that the people today who claim to be "the government authorities" are actually just a mafia protection racket who use money for evil almost as much as for good. Just because Christians believe they should pay taxes does not mean that money should be going to the IRS or other illegitimate "tax organizations".




posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by truthquest

Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good.


What a load of bull. Paul was an idiot. He and Jesus were not the same type of person, nor does he hold as much authority. It is the abrupt change in stance from Jesus to Paul's words that makes me suspicious not of Jesus himself, but of manipulation of scriptures by POLITICAL entities.

For the life of me I cannot understand why so many people listen to Paul. Keys to the kingdom my ass.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


I'm a Catholic, so I don't read the Bible that much. I've tried to read Paul's Epistles in the past and they gave me headaches.

Instead if digging through tons of confusing Bible verses, I went to the Catholic Encyclopedia to see what it says on unjust rulers:



Though Catholic doctrine condemns tyrannicide as opposed to the natural law, formerly great theologians of the Church like St. Thomas (II-II, Q. xlii, a.2), Suarez (Def. fidei, VI, iv, 15), and Bañez, O.P. (De justitia et jure, Q. lxiv, a. 3), permitted rebellion against oppressive rulers when the tyranny had become extreme and when no other means of safety were available. This merely carried to its logical conclusion the doctrine of the Middle Ages that the supreme ruling authority comes from God through the people for the public good. As the people immediately give sovereignty to the ruler, so the people can deprive him of his sovereignty when he has used his power oppressively. Many authorities, e.g. Suarez (Def. fiedei, VI, iv, 18), held that the State, but not private persons, could, if necessary, condemn the tyrant to death. In recent times Catholic authors, for the most part, deny that subjects have the right to rebel against and depose an unjust ruler, except in the case when the ruler was appointed under the condition that he would lose his power if he abused it. In proof of this teaching they appeal to the Syllabus of Pius IX, in which this proposition is condemned: "It is lawful to refuse obedience to legitimate princes, and even to rebel" (prop. 63). While denying the right of rebellion in the strict sense whose direct object is the deposition of the tyrannical ruler, many Catholic writers, such as Crolly, Cathrein, de Bie, Zigliara, admit the right of subjects not only to adopt an attitude of passive resistance against unjust laws but also in extreme cases to assume a state of active defensive resistance against the actual aggression of a legitimate, but oppressive ruler.

Tyrannicide



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


Actually, I have traditionally maintained this stance ever since 2000, when I first shocked my CPA about my taxes going into bullets to be used on brown people. Now no one in the office bats an eye when I pop off with this rant. But I still pay my taxes, and I still get audited for it. I am the subject of the rolling tax audit, which continues from year to year without a break. Its not enough that they know I know where my money is going, but that I open my trap about it.

So, do you propose that everyone who is a Christian prepare to be audited perpetually? They already audit the churches, schools, hospitals, zoos, and other suspicious institutions annually, why not these taxpayers, since Christians are so good at turning the other cheek? Easy pickins, poor sheep.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by Matyas
reply to post by truthquest
 


Actually, I have traditionally maintained this stance ever since 2000, when I first shocked my CPA about my taxes going into bullets to be used on brown people. Now no one in the office bats an eye when I pop off with this rant. But I still pay my taxes, and I still get audited for it. I am the subject of the rolling tax audit, which continues from year to year without a break. Its not enough that they know I know where my money is going, but that I open my trap about it.

So, do you propose that everyone who is a Christian prepare to be audited perpetually? They already audit the churches, schools, hospitals, zoos, and other suspicious institutions annually, why not these taxpayers, since Christians are so good at turning the other cheek? Easy pickins, poor sheep.


The most important thing for Christians to do is that whenever someone wrongfully uses the phrase "taxes" to describe what the IRS is doing to people, they should be corrected. "Protection money" is what that is. "Extortion" is a proper term as well. Whenever someone refers to the feds as "government", they need to be corrected. They are "a protection racket", "the mafia", "a gang of marauding thugs", "evil-doers" would work, as well as a vast number of other terms.

The second most important thing for Christians to do is start re-structuring their lives around the fact that there is a very dangerous near-anarchy in the USA right now. Despite the probably 250,000 pages of FDA "regulations"... the FDA is nothing more than a bribery center that forces some of the most valuable food companies out of business who can't afford all the bribes.

1. What we need to to is get together and establish private voluntary organizations that work like the UL does. For those who don't know the UL is an organization that certifies electrical products as safe. But they are a private company and therefore they are likely to be vastly more effective and efficient than the US government. Consumers must realize that nearly all markets are practically unregulated and that it is their job to regulate them by forming unions that purchase products only from ethical sellers.

2. Christians need to band together and support underground businesses. Above ground businesses tend to feed the beast that is the USA fake government. Download this radio show from two days ago to see what is starting to happen in the USA for those of us who refuse to feed the beast that is the US "government":
media.libsyn.com...
(clip is from Free Talk Live radio show)

It is a great example of how supporting underground businesses can help people become free from the tyranny of the US federal government.

3. Christians need to band together, and as a group, refuse to pay "income taxes"(extortion money) even if that means going to jail. The IRS does not allow jury trials so they have no chance. While facing the IRS as a lone individual won't do much, doing it in a massive group is a powerful statement that I believe will work and I would participate in. All it takes is 10,000 people, perhaps who move to one place like the Free State Project has done, and stand up for their rights. When Christians to start to do what right, the IRS will start starving to death.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by truthquest]



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