G.W. "Screw Loose" Bush - an Observational History

William Saletan�s -Magical History Tour � Bush can�t learn if he can�t see � published Monday in SLATE cites a pattern/ series of psychopathologies in his speech to the nation. In part he says: �In press conferences, TV ads, and interviews this year, President Bush has manifested a series of psychopathologies: an abstract notion of reality, confidence unhinged from facts and circumstances, and a conception of credibility that requires no correspondence to the external world. Tonight, as he vowed to stay the course in Iraq, Bush demonstrated another mental defect: incomprehension of his role in history as a fallible human agent. Absent such comprehension, Bush can't fix his mistakes in Iraq because he can't see how�or even that�he screwed up.

It is an interesting and challenging read.

slate.msn.com...

Can others cite other examples of the Bush manifestations to the Saletan list or add/suggest some other maladies and/or pathologies to the list?

I always make fun of bush and compare him to be retarded, I guess it may be some true after all. Interesting article I knew he have some problems with speach but psychopat? kind of harsh.

No offense, but this is going to the Political Mudpit before it even gets started. Looks like an interesting read though.

Originally posted by RANT
No offense, but this is going to the Political Mudpit before it even gets started. Looks like an interesting read though.

I first considered the Mudpit as a first choice but chose this venue hoping to get some serious,and civil responses. I wanted to prompt some thoughts outside the box, so to speak. There is a wealth of serious info on the web on this very subject.

But I will defer to you good judgment and bear the brunt which may follow.


BTW

I just clicked on your "Modest Proposal" I see we very well maybe of the same style and temperment

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by gmcnulty]

Glibness/superficial charm.
Grandiose sense of self-worth.
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Pathological lying
Conning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect
Callous/lack of empathy
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral controls
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Early behavior problems
Lack of realistic, long-term plans
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Many short-term marital relationships
Juvenile delinquency
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility (Hare, 1986)

I think calling bush a psychopath is kind of to hard. I think he wanted to be a president so bad that he forgot to go to presidential school.

Originally posted by gmcnulty
I first considered the Mudpit as a first choice but chose this venue hoping to get some serious,and civil responses. I wanted to prompt some thoughts outside the box, so to speak. There is a wealth of serious info on the web on this very subject.

I appreciate that and hope you get some good insight and provoke some thought as well...even in the pit.

I've read alot of addictionologist/alcohol counselors on the subject of "Is Bush a dry drunk" where they make some compelling arguments. I still need to read your link though...it's on my list.

AND TO BE FAIR...Clinton was a classic Sex Addict with escapist tendencies. Leading one to ask, is it the man or the job?

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by RANT]

Who is without fault?

I stopped carrying stones long time ago, after taking a long, honest look in the mirror of my mind.

Bill made no bones about his 'weakness'. He always admitted to them in bits and pieces SLOWLY.

On the other hand when Bush was asked of his failures/short comings by Tim Russert in a recent TV interview it drew one of Bush�s puzzled smirks with no answer.

This is a portion of that interview which I think deserves a closer look. Reading it has a more profound impact for me then when I first saw it:
MR RUSSERT: On Iraq, the vice president said, "we would be greeted as liberators." It's now nearly a year, and we are in a very difficult situation. Are you surprised by the level and intensity of resistance?
THE PRESIDENT: Off the record � well of course. Who ever would have guessed that those people wouldn't have been throwing their turbans in the air like a bunch of drunk Mexicans over being forced to trade one dictator for another. Not me! You'd think they'd be use to having their houses flattened and relatives killed for their own good!
NEVER acknowledging mistakes, Timmer. I mean, appointing this "intelligence failures" commission is the closest I've ever come in my whole life to admitting a mistake, and even then, I'm passing the buck to a bunch of cubicle nerds who were just following my orders.
MR RUSSERT: If the Iraqis choose an Islamic extremist regime, would you accept that, and would that be better for the United States than Saddam Hussein?
THE PRESIDENT: They're not going to develop that. And the reason I can say that is because I was installed in this office by America's McChrist Industry, and since they're the ones who are pulling my puppet strings, I think I'm speaking with a certain degree of authority when I say that American is not going to rest until every last unsaved Islamian maggot starts each day by wiping his ass with a page from the Koran. Besides, we've done such a bang-up job of botching up the whole domestic scene over there that we have ensured that any new Iraqi Ismaliac government doesn't happen until after my re-election.
MR RUSSERT: You do seem to have changed your mind from the 2000 campaign. In a debate, you said, "I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called 'nation-building.'" But what we're doing in Iraq right now is nation building.
THE PRESIDENT: You know Tim-job, if this was one of the ten measly press conferences I've given so far during my presidency, this would be the point where I say, "that's a trick question, and I'm not going to answer it!"
MR RUSSERT: But this isn't a press conference. It's an interview that you insisted be held here in the Oval Office � and be taped instead of live.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I did.
MR RUSSERT: So is it or is it not nation building?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I suppose so, but we're also fighting a war, so I personally prefer to focus on the nation demolition aspects of it. Those parts involve way more guns and explosions and killing than the building part � which if folks think about it too much, you're right, makes me look like one hell of a hypocrite. So yeah, there's a little building, but there's way more demolition. Because at the end of the day, we're committed to bringing FREEDOM� to Iraqnia, even if we have to exterminate every last Muslamian cockroach to do it.
MR RUSSERT: Now looking back, in your mind, has Iraq been worth the loss of 530 American lives and 3,000 wounded?
THE PRESIDENT: Well sure, because that's what it took for me to whoop Saddam Hussein. If I had to throw a bunch more working-class boys and girls on the pile, it would be worth it for the warm feeling I get in my gut � sort of like with Tequilla � just knowing I punked Saddam.
MR RUSSERT: Even though there were no weapons of mass destruction?
THE PRESIDENT: Well Not-So-Slim Tim, what's important to remember there is that I based my decision on the best intelligence possible. We were attacked. And Saddam Hussein once had weapons. He's a dangerous madman. A killer. An evildoer. And that was the intelligence I was using.
MR RUSSERT: We are going to take a quick break.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank Christ. Do I have time for a nap?
(Halliburton Commercial)
MR RUSSERT: And we are back in the Oval Office talking to the President of the United States. Mr. President, last week the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Terence McAuliffe, said "I look forward to that debate when John Kerry, a war hero with a chest full of medals, is standing next to George Bush, a man who was AWOL in the Alabama National Guard." How do you respond?
THE PRESIDENT: I received an honorable discharge from the Guard.
MR RUSSERT: But were you in fact AWOL prior to your discharge?
THE PRESIDENT: I received an honorable discharge from the Guard.
MR RUSSERT: Some say that you only got into the Guard because your father was a US Congressman at the time, and that your honorable discharge was another example of the same special treatment. So if you don't mind, would you answer whether or not you were ever AWOL?
THE PRESIDENT: I received an honorable discharge from the Guard in Tennessee.
MR RUSSERT: Texas
THE PRESIDENT: Whatever. This is all politics is what this is � I've answered this question before.
You see Tums, that's all I have to say. It's like back in 1999 when people asked me about all that blow I used to do. I never denied it, I just said "I have not used any illegal drugs since 1974." And years from now, when people ask about whether I lied to justify a personal vendetta war in Iraq, I'll say "I based my decision on the best intelligence possible. We were attacked. And Saddam Hussein once had weapons. He's a dangerous madman. A killer. An evildoer. And that was the intelligence I was using."



[Edited on 25-5-2004 by gmcnulty]

Well, Mr or Mrs McNutly,

Having now read a number of your posts, including the obviously factual one above, it is easy to see your political agenda.

You state you want serious and civil responses, then you post something like this.

I am all for excellent political debate, but I'll take the (way out-there) honestly felt posts by the Colonel over this smarmy drivel you pass off as debate any day.

I stopped carrying stones long time ago, after taking a long, honest look in the mirror of my mind.

I beg to differ. You have thrown a couple of boulders out there regarding the current president and his administration, now step up to the plate and lets hear what you've got to say!

Please tell me; just what is my political agenda?

And I would like to know just how you have come to judge me. Do you read minds? Do remote viewing as a hobby?

Also I am sure the Colonel is flattered at your compliment.

And how have you determined me to be unctuous? - That I find puzzling - Please enlighten me, if you might.

I am sorry you see/find the portrayal of Mr. Bush as �throwing boulders�. I have been most vigilant to cite my sources and done so to prompt discussion. IN fact I am not sure I have yet to have made a judgmental or ad hominem remark about Mr. Bush. I will grant you I do so in a rather challenging way but you have every opportunity to reply in a similar fashion.

In this string, I was hoping to entertain some serious discussions on the mental health and personal foibles of our President. I am sure you must admit: He has a few. Would you not agree? Plus there is a wealth of information on the web (if you care to do the work) to form and possibly support your predetermined position.

For me, I�m open to discovery of just what the facts might be. I would value your considered and documented opinion on the issue at hand.

You must agree, a candidate�s mental health, thought process and personal behaviors are important considerations for voters to consider. Don�t you? I you care to engage me/us in an exposition of positions I would enjoy it.



BTW
Is your avatar a depiction of August 2, 1876 at the Saloon No. 10 in Deadwood, South Dakota? And if so, who do you see you�re self as, Jack McCall?

Originally posted by gmcnulty

Please tell me; just what is my political agenda?

Far left leanings, probably a closet Kucinich fan.
So blind with your hatred of Bush that you cannot possibly see beyond it.

And I would like to know just how you have come to judge me. Do you read minds? Do remote viewing as a hobby?

Just read your posts my friend.

And how have you determined me to be unctuous? - That I find puzzling - Please enlighten me, if you might.

I actually said smarmy. Nice use of your thesaurus though.

I am sorry you see/find the portrayal of Mr. Bush as �throwing boulders�. I have been most vigilant to cite my sources and done so to prompt discussion. IN fact I am not sure I have yet to have made a judgmental or ad hominem remark about Mr. Bush. I will grant you I do so in a rather challenging way but you have every opportunity to reply in a similar fashion.

Really, please give me the NBC link for the above quoted interview.

you may also remember this from thread 53398:

Regarding George Bush Boy are you right about that. fersure. He sat on his hands as 3000 died.

May he rot in hell.

In this string, I was hoping to entertain some serious discussions on the mental health and personal foibles of our President. I am sure you must admit: He has a few. Would you not agree? Plus there is a wealth of information on the web (if you care to do the work) to form and possibly support your predetermined position.

Again serious discussion like the "interview" you posted above, and research like the Op/Ed piece by an obvious detractor of the president. This speaks of partisan political "bashing". And while there is nothing wrong with that, especially here in the pit, call it what it is. If you are truly interested in the President's health, go here.

www.washingtonpost.com...

For me, I�m open to discovery of just what the facts might be. I would value your considered and documented opinion on the issue at hand.

You must agree, a candidate�s mental health, thought process and personal behaviors are important considerations for voters to consider. Don�t you? I you care to engage me/us in an exposition of positions I would enjoy it.

Not having access to the President's or Mr. Kery's mental health records, any discussion would be pure speculation on both our parts. Some of Kerry's ideas sound just as off the wall to me as Bush's apparently do to you.

BTW
Is your avatar a depiction of August 2, 1876 at the Saloon No. 10 in Deadwood, South Dakota? And if so, who do you see you�re self as, Jack McCall?

Actually it portrays Seth Bullock taking Jack into custody to be delivered to Federal Marshalls after fleeing Deadwood in the wake of Wild Bill's murder, as portrayed on HBO's excellent drama Deadwood.

Sorry about the quoting Seekerof.....

Originally posted by marg6043
I always make fun of bush and compare him to be retarded, I guess it may be some true after all.

Interesting article I knew he have some problems with speach but psychopat? kind of harsh.

I think calling bush a psychopath is kind of to hard. I think he wanted to be a president so bad that he forgot to go to presidential school.

Reading YOUR posts, I think you forgot to go to school at all?

Nice grammar, spelling and sentence structure, genius.

Perhaps you should heed the old adage, "People who live in glass houses shouldn�t throw stones."

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Okay, read the article. Great observations, even for it's partisanship.

The theme, taken from a few quotes:

"When the gap between reality and Bush's happy talk becomes too painful for his party to bear, he does try to close that gap. But he never faces up to the extent of his errors...."

"When you deceive yourself about the past, it's easy to deceive yourself about the future...."

"Bush, being Bush, thinks abstractions and good intentions will conquer such unpleasant facts."

Sorry again for "pitting" this GMCNULTY, but absent a "conspiracy" I'm afraid that's still where Saletan belongs, depsite his gift for observation. Now turning the focus off some gentle readers discetion of GMCNULTY and back to Presidential pathologies, I think there's something to it both for Bush and possibly all Presidents.

All Saletan's observations of Bush point to the personality of a "Fraud" IMO. Mind you I'm not charging that with anything politcal, but taking it from psychology. ALOT of successful people harbor an overwhelming fear of "being exposed" and in their irrationality tend to expose themselves. With Bush, he fumbles his own words at the worst possible times. It's a form of self sabotage right from the subconcious.

There also may be something to his admitted status as one "saved from alcohol" --- for the rest of us, it's called being an alcoholic. "Dry drunk" behavior is seen as the often unbearably braggartly and self delusional thought processes of one that see's himself as "beating the bottle" all on his own... aka, a white knuckler. They can be overbearingly assertive and completely incapable of admitting fault. Even in the face of defeat it's always "I meant to do that." Even among the most loyal of his admirers, this highly charismatic character eventually loses his following as a result of his own stubborness.

Clinton....ah, so many issues. Sex addiction, escapism, married a mother figure. Little boy looking for success, acceptance and approval. These can be very successful figures (as I think Clinton was as President) but on some level want to get caught and punished....by Mother.

Carter and Reagen were more alike than people think IMO. One trick ponies that probably shouldn't have ever been President but were called to it from such a void of the very thing each could do so well. For Carter, his sense of Morality compelled him to save the country from Nixon/Ford's immorality. For Reagen, his ability to play the strong leader role compelled him to save the country from Carter. The interesting things about these strengths is it's also their weakness...when taken to the chaotic extreme.

Carter was so pathelogically moral he admitted "having lusted in his heart" when asked if he'd ever had an affair, when the simple answer should have been no. He took something UNDERSTOOD as a given to the human animal and made himself as laughing stock by his own morality.

Reagen, the opposite. He was such a good leader and orator he believed his own lies. And despite all evidence to the contrary, so did the public. Because they wanted it to be true. IMO his "legacy" as the most popular President ever just keeps fading with time. Once the image of lovable Grandpa dies away, and the completely inane quotes remain...let's face it. Nobody's home.

But what pathology compells these unqualifed people to run? I'm convinced if you assembled nine qualified people and one boob in a room and asked them each to run for President...the boob would trample the other nine.

Can't comment on the Ford or Bush 41 Presidencies, because it's just sad when any VP becomes President.

Sorry, if I'm off point now, but I think the trend supports the observations on Dubya.

Affirmative Reaction

If this is for me about going to school, I am over feeling ofended by coments like that, obviously you don,t know how to read my signature, I teach spanish, have a college education and speak two languages and I can speak english better than some people born and raise here. Now mr. perfect How many languages you speak and write. ? I can deliver a speach better than moron Mr. Bush.

I see this comment to be racist in nature.

If the coment was not intended for me I apologize


:

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by marg6043]

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by marg6043]

Hey Marg6043.

Don't feel bad, and good for you for sticking up for yourself.

I had already U2U'ed you about the issue before you edited your post so don't worry about the mail when you check it.

You're right though. ATS strongly frowns on making fun of grammer or language (even in the Mudpit) since we attract and welcome such a wide international audience.

Affirmative Reaction, please avoid such hurtful personal attacks in the future. You never know the person or circumstances behind those words on a screen. Intolerance won't be tolerated.

My friend, you�re wound too tight.

You need to get out more.

I do not care for Mr. Bush. You found me out there Bunkie, but in spite of how you might see it, I am not un-American or unpatriotic in doing so.

I see him as an embarrassment to the Office of the Presidency.

I am sorry if you voted for him and now feel compelled thru some form of twisted loyalty to defend him. Because to do so in light of the ever mounting evidence (no matter how one attempts to spin it) is a mindless and futile endeavor.

Go bang your head against the wall if you must. But unless the Republicans nominate someone one other then the current guy who picks his nose in public you can kiss the WH goodbye. Go down with the ship, Cap�tn.

Bush makes Clinton look like Mother Theresa in all but one area of comparison.

BTW

You still give me the giggles


[Edited on 26-5-2004 by gmcnulty]

Originally posted by marg6043
Affirmative Reaction

If this is for me about going to school, I am over feeling ofended by coments like that, obviously you don,t know how to read my signature, I teach spanish, have a college education and speak two languages and I can speak english better than some people born and raise here. Now mr. perfect How many languages you speak and write. ? I can deliver a speach better than moron Mr. Bush.

I see this comment to be racist in nature.

If the coment was not intended for me I apologize

:

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by marg6043]

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by marg6043]

Don't worry about it. I caught him making a few grammatical errors myself and dissed him on it just like he did you--but worse. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I say.

Thanks everybody for you coments, I guess the mutpit is not for me, I am going to leave it to the big boys. Now in an oral debate I still to find somebody to win over me yet.

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by marg6043]

Pay the dweeb no mind.

It's easy to be an effete bully from behind a keyboard posting from the outer environs of S. Bumbphuck.

But all who read know his type.

He's just trying to feel superior and better about his miserable existence by tearing down others.

He�s a bad little boy and most probably need a �Time-Out� rather then the recognition of having annoyed you.


[Edited on 26-5-2004 by gmcnulty]

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by gmcnulty]