Chunnel Traffic Hit By Worst Winter Weather In Years

Looks like Eurostar traffic between England and France is kaput for the time being.

Eurostar train services canceled indefinitely

The only passenger rail link between Britain and the rest of Europe has been shut down indefinitely, Eurostar said Sunday, promising more travel misery for thousands of stranded passengers just before Christmas.

Services have been suspended since late Friday, when a series of glitches stranded five trains inside the Channel Tunnel and trapped more than 2,000 passengers for hours in stuffy and claustrophobic conditions. More than 55,000 passengers overall have been affected.

Eurostar runs services between England, France and Belgium. The company said Sunday it had traced the problem to "acute weather conditions in northern France," which has seen its worst winter weather in years.

Oh how I love global WARMING. It brings me a COLD and white Christmas!

Using the amount of snow as a counter argument against Global Warming is just plain idiotic.
Lets examine where snow comes from, snow is like frozen rain, and rain comes from clouds, clouds are formed by the evaporation of water, HEAT EVAPORATES WATER (grade 6 tone intended).
So yes this is exactly what you would expect from a planet that is warming. I DID NOT SAY MANMADE but increased snowfall is a reaction of global warming. How are we missing this link?

reply to post by Hack28



The planet has not warmed the past 10 years.

To suggest increased snowfall is due to something that is not happening is just idiotic.

reply to post by Hack28


And you do have facts to back up your claim that precipitation is beyond normal historical levels in the north of France, right? (Grade 3 tone intended. Tell me if that's too elevated for you.)

reply to post by Hack28


I think you sum it up very well, and the most part I think many all agree there IS global warming - sorry 'climate change'. It's the cause that is the discord and as you rightly stated you didnt say it was, or was not man made.

Extremes will increase over the next several months.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by Hack28

 

And you (Grade 3 tone intended. Tell me if that's too elevated for you.)

Its funny when you use my line against me. The funniest part is how simple it made you look.
First you post an article about an more than increased amount of snow, and than you ask the question

"do have facts to back up your claim that precipitation is beyond normal historical levels in the north of France, right?"

Well how about your thread for starters?? Precipitation is snow genius, or how about this

"He said the winterisation process, which takes place every autumn, had worked successfully for the last 15 years but on Friday the conditions had been 'exceptional'.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Do you even realize that you started this thread? Did you read the article? It clearly says that received an abnormal amount of precipitation, even by grade 3 you should know precipitation is also SNOW.

reply to post by Hack28


Can you show a long term precipitation level increase? The above hypothesis that you're so proud of would increase the precipitation over the long term. The biggest thing I see in this situation are the sub-zero temps and a change in the snow type.

This picture from your article doesn't look like a blizzard swept through. Does it to you?



[edit on 12/21/09 by Ferris.Bueller.II]

It was colder and snowier last winter. This is just the Chunnel operators trying to come up with a lame excuse.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


Maybe you should research your own thread.

en.wikipedia.org...

Cant you rebuttle without childish insults? Ohh thats right you cant stand on facts so you try to attack me, im the messenger bud you hate the message, are you listening to yourself?? Is anyone??? Am i crazy??
How can you post a thread on a story dealing with record amounts of Snowfall, and than refute that there is more than average amounts of snow falling?

here ill do your homework since your an "adult" and cant seem to be bothered.

First read the above link

than

en.wikipedia.org...

and this

en.wikipedia.org...

wrap it up with this.
en.wikipedia.org...

But the big smoking gun here on this mystery of Snow fall, should be THE SNOW FALL!!!!

Maybe im missing your argument, clarify for me, because as it stands now your refuting above than normal historical precipitation in Norhtern France. Theres a tool called google that can answer that for you.

reply to post by Hack28


But the gw crowd used lack of bad winters for there argument, now they are saying snow is not bad and cold, lol.

Lol, to gw crowd.

What an oxymoron!

The warmer it gets, the colder it gets.

If it gets hotter, we freeze. If it gets colder, we freeze.

Glaciers and ice caps were melting because of global warming.

Now glaciers and ice caps are growing because of global warming.

Do you not see the ludicrousness of it all?

Orwell would love this doublespeak . . .

More evidence just in: global warming causes everything. If it gets hotter, it’s global warming. Colder, ditto. Drier, yep. Wetter, same thing. Melting? Global warming did it. Ice and snow? Global warming’s the culprit.

CBCNews.ca reports:

“The glaciers on Mount Shasta in California are growing because of global warming, experts say. ”

” ‘When people look at glaciers around the world, the majority of them are shrinking,’ said Slawek Tulaczyk, a University of California, Santa Cruz, professor who studied the glaciers.”

“But the seven glaciers on Shasta, part of the Cascade mountains in northern California, ’seem to be benefiting from the warming ocean,’ he said.

“As the ocean warms, more moisture evaporates. As moisture moves inland, it falls as snow — enough on Shasta to more than offset a 1 C temperature rise in the past century.”

“The three smallest of the Shasta glaciers are more than twice the length they were in 1950.”

There you have it. More snow, more ice. Thanks to global warming. But if something (global warming) causes everything, does it (global warming) really cause anything? Then there’s the whole CO2 thing. If CO2 causes global warming, does CO2 cause everything? Or nothing? Where’s that climatologist Al Gore when you need him?

Link

[edit on 12/21/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]

Originally posted by Hack28
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

 

Maybe you should research your own thread.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, something that started the 17th of December is a long term change? Amazing!

Cant you rebuttle without childish insults? Ohh thats right you cant stand on facts so you try to attack me, im the messenger bud you hate the message, are you listening to yourself?? Is anyone??? Am i crazy??
How can you post a thread on a story dealing with record amounts of Snowfall, and than refute that there is more than average amounts of snow falling?

Can you quote where in either article or even another one altogether where it states this is a record snowfall event? All I see in yours above is, "The amount of snow was higher than we experienced before."

here ill do your homework since your an "adult" and cant seem to be bothered.

First read the above link

than

en.wikipedia.org...

and this

en.wikipedia.org...

wrap it up with this.
en.wikipedia.org...

OK. Are you saying the thermohaline circulation in the North Atlantic current is causing this? If so, that'd cause cooling, not support your hypothesis of increased precipitation from warming oceans. Why you linked to an article on Paris I have no clue on.

But the big smoking gun here on this mystery of Snow fall, should be THE SNOW FALL!!!!

Maybe im missing your argument, clarify for me, because as it stands now your refuting above than normal historical precipitation in Norhtern France. Theres a tool called google that can answer that for you.

Again, can you quote in either article, or even in another one where it states this is a record snowfall event?

My take on the OP thread is that the trains cant cope with what is winter weather.

It happens every year here in the UK.

Last year the big deal was they ran out of salt/grit for the roads.

This year its the trains are broken.

The amount of snow is not as much as we used to get when I was a kid, that was in the 60's and 70's when places were snowed in for weeks at a time.

The current snow might be more than the past few yeras, but it is not exceptional.

What is exceptional is that modern transport systems cant cope with modest amounts of snow.

Its just farcical the way the agw perps jump on anything to prove their point. Anyone who dares to not agree with them is treated like a holocaust denier.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by bigyin]

Originally posted by bigyin
My take on the OP thread is that the trains cant cope with what is winter weather.

It happens every year here in the UK.

Last year the big deal was they ran out of salt/grit for the roads.

This year its the trains are broken.

The amount of snow is not as much as we used to get when I was a kid, that was in the 60's and 70's wehn places were snowed in for weeks at a time.

The current snow might be more than the past few yeras, but is it not exceptional.

What is exceptional is that modern transport systems cant cope with modest amounts of snow.

Its just farcical the way the agw perps jump on anything to prove their point. Anyone who dares to not agree with them is treated like a holocaust denier.

Daaaamn

You guys must have had MASSIVE global warming!

And for somebody like me, who has spent most of his life in another country with tons of snow each (long) winter, the tiny amount of snow that we have received in Britain over the past few days is just silly to call a "snow chaos". The snow just barely covers the ground here and there and should really not be a problem at all for any decent train (or car driver, provided that the car is fitted with real tyres.

Originally posted by Hack28
Using the amount of snow as a counter argument against Global Warming is just plain idiotic.
Lets examine where snow comes from, snow is like frozen rain, and rain comes from clouds, clouds are formed by the evaporation of water, HEAT EVAPORATES WATER (grade 6 tone intended).
So yes this is exactly what you would expect from a planet that is warming. I DID NOT SAY MANMADE but increased snowfall is a reaction of global warming. How are we missing this link?

This may not be the case acording to new scientific studies by scientist, that global warming or the evaporation of water vapour in to clouds is nothing to do with CO2 in the atmosphere, and doesn't necessarily mean warming at all, but as stidies show it is more likely the result of Cosmic ray, and the sun. here are the findings
Theory Says Climate Change Depends On Solar Wind/Cosmic Rays

the reason not many people have heard of this, is because the scientific community, you know the one being paid by the governments and the rich elite, wouldn't publish it, because it would make their idea look pretty stupid, so before you go having a go at other people look into the science first. there is more than one side to every story, we just haven't been given the opportunity to see both sides as of yet.




[edit on 12,21,2009 by neo5842]

It has to be said the Tunnel is STILL operational and has been since Eurostar cancelled its services.

The problem stems from the fact that Electric Locomotives have been malfunctioning due to moisture getting into the electrical systems through relative humidity. You all know about condensation, well the same has been happening in the Tunnel where Air "trapped" within the Tunnel as heat cant escape due to the cooler temperatures outside.
This temperature variation means that water droplets form on the boundary where this warm/cold air meets and is why the trains have been malfunctioning.

Eurotunnel operations run via Diesel operations, so the car operations have been running on schedule as normal. Unfortunately noone thought of getting replacement Diesel trains for passenger Eurostar operations (mainly as no Diesel drivers have the licence to operate that section of line, and it would cost millions in revenue for Eurostar to get the Locomotives in the first place.)

Its basically been one logistical nightmare that SHOULD have been avoided, especially as Eurostar had Diesel back-up trains not too long ago but decided to sell them off due to losses.

I doubt anyone will be explaining that to 50,000 passengers anytime soon though.

reply to post by ROBL240



Thanks for your technical explanation.

So its nothing to do with snow as such, therefore when they say they are fitting 'snow shields' thats is total BS.

As for diesel locomotives, I did wonder if they could be used in such a long tunnel. Would there be enough oxygen to run diesels. Would the smoke output not be dangerous for passengers ?

The Diesel trains use a "purifier" type of filter that traps the dangerous gas and chemicals. Its standard for all Western made trains to have these installed as many areas in the UK have Tunnels longer than a mile in length.

Infact the same Filters were what allowed Steam Locomotives to be the first operational vehicles in the London Underground ahead of the Electric Trains.

The Snow Ploughs are just for saving-face, if anything they only add needless weight as the Rail system is already ploughed ahead of the Trains on a 4x hour rota.