Are these really in the Bible? If so...can they be debunked?

reply to post by octotom


No problem.

reply to post by Hemlocks


Are you sure those are from the Torah? I'm pretty sure that those quotes are from the Talmud, which was a book written during the Babylonian exile by rabbis, and isn't considered Scripture by Christians and some Jews.

If they are actually Torah quotes, could you provide the English names to the books?

[edit on 12/3/2009 by octotom]

reply to post by Hemlocks


What your reading are from writings of priests and not from what is known as the cannanised text that is considered scripture...im starting to wonder if your some christian and jew hating muslim or something...you seem to have a real beef with the jews and christians in particular, then say all religons are bad...then top it off with another round of out of context quotes attacking the jews and christians, saying that they are scriptures when they simply are not.

Originally posted by Hemlocks
Hello

I was sent this youtude video that shows passages taken from the Bible that are almost impossible to believe!

You guys with Bible/scripture knowledge can you try to debunk this video. If the the video message is true then something is really wrong with the God of the Bible and His followers..if they carry out His commands. And if the followers do not carry out these evil commands then they are living in sin?!?!!?!?

This is nonesense...
...it is like saying the following...

"And Judas cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself...do thou likewise."

These are two unrelated texts from Matthew 27:5 and Luke 10:37...
...that when put together are an instruction to kill yourself.

The guy who put this video together has strung together a few texts without regard for context and applied them to modern culture...
...but Christians have also contributed to this error.


With Real Estate it is position, position position...
...in understanding biblical manuscripts it is context, context, context.


The Ten Commandments were called 'the covenant' and were specifically given to Israel in a specific context.

Deuteronomy 5:2-3 "The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb (Sinai). 3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

So it wasn't even given to Abraham but to Israel 430 years later...
...Paul confirms this about 1500 years later in his letter to the Galatians.

Galatians 3:17-19 "...the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added... till the seed should come..."

So Paul confirmed that Ten commandments (law) was given 430 years after the promise to Israel until Jesus came.

So modern Christians are not under the Ten Commandments.

So both the Vid guy and Christians have it wrong this time.

reply to post by Hemlocks

Let me add this Hemlock...
...each of the apparent attrocities in the Old Testament context were the destruction of hybrid tribes that were designed to destroy the 'world of men'.

The 'world of men' as we know it would not exist if this had not been done.

Genesis 6 outlines the production of the 'Nephyl'...
...a race described as giants that became so numerous that the world was destroyed by flood.

After the flood the breeding program began again...
...and their destruction is outlined in Genesis prior to the promise to Abraham in Genesis 15...
...Sodom was also destroyed during this time for this same reason.

Abraham's offspring went to Egypt during draught and eventually were enslaved because they had became so numerous...
...they were released and were 'cacooned' by the social engineering of laws and ceremonies that isolated them from the Nephyl tribes that surrounded them...
...and the Nephyl were inhabiting the land of Canaan when they arrived there.

Israel was instructed to kill men, women, children and animals...
...why animals? Because they were also subject to genetic manipulation...
...and is the reason for some of the mythological creatures, man animal hybrids.

What appear to be severe laws and instructions were necessary to preserve human genetic identity...
...it was through this line that Jesus was born...
...and it was He who will eventually restore the fallen creation.

Once Jesus arrived the genetic consideration was less of an issue...
...that's why the breeding of the 'Nephyl' mostly stopped during the church era...
...except for a few fairies, elfs, vampires and bigfoot stories.

Christendom followed the course of the seven eras outlined by the seven church in Revelation 1-3...
...the apparent fragmenting and division was also designed...
...it stopped any one group taking complete control...
...and the arguments about theology kept the stories alive and the manuscripts preserved and safe...
...and odd sects have arisen to focus on Escatology (end times)...
...when all this would happen again.

The breeding of the Nephyl started again in the modern era with 'abductions' and UFO phenonena...
...the same Watchers have invented the Alien Hypothesis...
...so that when the Nephyl arrive this time most of the world will think they are aliens from other planets and dimensions.

What will happen then is that they will seem to be friendly...
...and will prepare world leaders to defend against another alien invasion who they will say are coming to destroy humanity for our resources...
...when actually the one coming is Jesus.

This is a brief outline of Judeo/Christian history...
...it is the story of men running the guantlet of events set to destroy them...
...but it's purpose is for the survival and restoration of human kind...
...free from the 'powers' that are 'hell bent' to destroy 'the world of men'.

If you are human, it is the side to be on right now.



[edit on 3/12/09 by troubleshooter]

Why do atheists get off on trying to refute Christianity? Far be it for anyone to question an atheist's convictions...talk about getting bent out of shape! So what if the Catholic church killed a bunch of people in the name of God hundreds of years ago? It doesn't affect me in the present and, frankly, ABSOLUTELY no amount of complaining will set those atrocities right.

Now, about the scripture; Strict adherence to Mosaic law was beyond impossible. There are so many laws that dealt with everyday minutia, that keeping each one was, as I just mentioned, impossible. Sure, several of the laws some across as barbaric or excessively brutal, but you have to bear in mind the time in which they were drafted. The Isrealites were, more or less, bedouin nomads; constantly on the move, and constantly at war. How do you keep a mobile war machine oiled and at the ready? You put to death anyone breaking the laws. I don't know, that's just how it was.

Instead of arguing about who is right and who is an idiot (which seems to be the typical style of argument on ATS of late), we should pool all of our resources together and go against the common enemy...Scientologists. Now that's crazy!

reply to post by Hemlocks


I love his videos and he's posted a lot of others to his Youtube account.

Bible sleaze goes far beyond those ten examples. To atheists it is as it were the gift that keeps on giving. The bible is a cesspool of absurdities, atrocities, and blatant slack-jawed slobbering stupidity. It is distilled psychosis bottled by and for the mentally diseased.

Read on.

Introduction to the Bible and Biblical Problems

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by Hemlocks

 

What your reading are from writings of priests and not from what is known as the cannanised text that is considered scripture...im starting to wonder if your some christian and jew hating muslim or something...you seem to have a real beef with the jews and christians in particular, then say all religons are bad...then top it off with another round of out of context quotes attacking the jews and christians, saying that they are scriptures when they simply are not.

That's a very strong and very offensive statement Rock. In the Islamic faith both Jews and Christians are People of the Book who are given special status and respect by members of the faith. So the insinuation that a person hating on Jews and Christians would be a Muslim is rather inaccurate at best. Just thought that should be set straight.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Much later, and I won't bother to even look at the Bible quotes. But I do want to mention that one of these, maybe this one, that I saw on youtube a year or so ago referred to the daughter who was sacrificed to God by her father by being burned alive. The correct interpretation is that she was to remain a virgin, AS IF she had been a burnt sacrifice. Bible haters love to do this. It's easy to get the interpretation of a verse wrong, not easy to get it right, but....

Like millions, I've met Jesus Christ personally. He's quite alive and well, and so is his Father and so is the Holy Spirit. I am, however, sometimes attacked with a lot of hostility, not for religious views, but for my failure to adopt certain hard core beliefs. Watching 900+ bodies rotting in the sun in Guyana is stark evidence of the tendency for Christians to be duped. I have just made one complete pass through the OT and find it difficult to understand or relate to, so I just read it, I don't arrive at hard conclusions. The NT is much easier, though it is also highly abstract. It's easier, though, because it has the very words of Jesus (God) in many places, and even though the translations are not 100% identical, you can pretty much believe what God has allowed to represent such events through printed word. Once again, though, jncorrect interpretations are obvious and common in the churches. I do understand a LOT of the NT very well because of my spiritual experiences, but a lot of it doesn't come easy.

If you want to criticize the Bible and fight against the notion of such a creator as you think it represents, fine. If you want to know God, however, and see God, you can, but ONLY if you surrender to this person who you don't yet know or understand, because that is how it really does work. The first dozen or so verses in Matthew 5 are your blueprint. Study them over and over, believe them in the depths of your soul, and God will move in your direction. After that, you won't criticize the Bible, but you'll read it for as much understanding as you can get out of it.

Originally posted by SeditiousDissent
Why do atheists get off on trying to refute Christianity? Far be it for anyone to question an atheist's convictions...talk about getting bent out of shape! So what if the Catholic church killed a bunch of people in the name of God hundreds of years ago? It doesn't affect me in the present and, frankly, ABSOLUTELY no amount of complaining will set those atrocities right.

Well, actually it does impact you today. Odds are, you're in the Western Hemisphere. 22 million people were killed in one way or another, in the name of Jesus, so that you could live here. THAT would not have happened if Christians had not slaughtered and purged Jews and Muslims from Iberia.

Odds are good you are of European descent to some degree (though, hey, maybe not). Were it not for the purges of early Christianity, followed by over a thousand years of theocratic rule by the church, Europe could have undergone an industrial revolution before the first millennium AD. If you are of African Descent, you would not be here if these same Christians had not learned the "benefits" of chattel slavery by enslaving (and exterminating) the people of the Canary islands, then doing the same to the Carib indians - and then sending guns and missionaries to Africa to help enslave your ancestors (who were forced into christianity under pain of death). Had it not been for the Christian attempts to slaughter everyone in the near east, it's unlikely the current Islam vs. Christianity siege mentality would be in place.

Even though I agree, there's not a bit of anything that can be done about it, saying this stuff doesn't matter or isn't important is silly. It shaped the world you live in. And it's still shaping places; for instance, the Christian agenda in Africa that has led to the AIDS pandemic and state executions of homosexuals.

Now, about the scripture; Strict adherence to Mosaic law was beyond impossible. There are so many laws that dealt with everyday minutia, that keeping each one was, as I just mentioned, impossible. Sure, several of the laws some across as barbaric or excessively brutal, but you have to bear in mind the time in which they were drafted. The Isrealites were, more or less, bedouin nomads; constantly on the move, and constantly at war. How do you keep a mobile war machine oiled and at the ready? You put to death anyone breaking the laws. I don't know, that's just how it was.

We agree here; the Israelites were basically tribal desert raiders, living hand-to-mouth and occasionally pretending to have a kingdom based on the spoils of whoever they slaughtered. Their religious laws are as weird and impossible as the religious laws of Polynesian tapu, and just as arbitrary.

The trouble is, a significant segment of the US population seems to think these are the founding doctrines of our nation, and further that they should be enshrined, in pure form, as the law of the land. These people are, for the most part, christians. Who, for the most part, utterly ignore what Jesus taught, primarily because it doesn't result in enough dead people for their tastes.

So I guess some segment of the population isn't too far removed from being bronze-age desert pirates. I'd rather keep them from being able to force that on the rest of us, though.

Instead of arguing about who is right and who is an idiot (which seems to be the typical style of argument on ATS of late), we should pool all of our resources together and go against the common enemy...Scientologists. Now that's crazy!

Frankly, all religion is crazy. Most of the world's religions are tolerable because it's a personal kind of crazy - you don't see Shinto banging on doors at 6 AM on Saturday mornings in Japan, trying to convert people, nor do Sikhs demand their laws be enshrined over the laws of whatever country they're in. Those Abrahamic dudes, though... they're the kind of crazy that Silence of the Lambs is about. it's not enough for them to believe crazy stuff on their own time, no, they want to make sure you believe it with them. Which makes them annoying at the least, and an existential threat at the worst.

Some of the scriptures are in the hebrew scriptures and were written under the mosaic law. After Jesus Christ ransom sacrafice we are no longer under mosaic law. Things change conditions change.

Also every sinner. Every individual that violates gods law will ultimately be put to death on judgement day armegedon. I am pretty sure Yaweh doesn't want us to go around murdering people our selves. I mean it violates the commandment of thou shall not kill. Often times with translations of the bible filtering through hundreds or thousands of cultures in various different languages (as well as assimilating the religion and other cultural aspects of different nations over the yeahs) some one will put a spin on things and make their own edits to the original text to suit their purposes. I.E. the Crusades. This guy is only focusing on the partial message and not looking at the book as a sequence of events.

Every wonder why we no longer offer animal sacrafices... WE ARE NOT UNDER MOSAIC LAW therefore today we would not do said things. DO be fooled

Originally posted by Hemlocks
Hello

I was sent this youtude video that shows passages taken from the Bible that are almost impossible to believe!

You guys with Bible/scripture knowledge can you try to debunk this video. If the the video message is true then something is really wrong with the God of the Bible and His followers..if they carry out His commands. And if the followers do not carry out these evil commands then they are living in sin?!?!!?!?

The Top 10 Reasons Why the Bible is Repulsive

www.youtube.com...

I would treat that with caution as the surrounding text, text that helps to clarify is missing.
---
Also you have to be very, very cautious in regards in reading the Bible. You have to have a historical understanding of the times and a sense of rationalism.

1)The Sabbath: Mandatory day off. Before that humans worked 7 day's a week without rest. That will cut your life expectancy and it was short enough as is. The whole death thing, sadly when introducing a new idea(day's off) draconian measures are the most effective to get the point across in the shortest amount of time. You have to understand that our ancestors back then of every human ethnicity where horrible savage, borderline monsters by today's standards. Also their is some theorizes that the Ark of the Covenant was a nuke powered mana making machine that needed cleaning once a week...

2)Kill non-believers. Look at the surrounding text, this is in reference to the establishment and disposal of the Canaanites. And the atheist carefully edited the passage:www.biblegateway.com...

Notice how it only applies to those that are IN cities given by the Lord to the Israelite's?

3)And when they switch over to Lev 24 the athiest also leaves out the story of the man whose father was an Egyptian, mother was an Israelite, went into the Israelite camp and caused trouble. They are not talking about non believers, but people who openly curse God. You have to remember the only thing holding the Israelites together was their faith. Without that they lost all identity and could of easily been wiped out by other more dominant cultures. Also pay attention to what isn't said. They are told to hunt down people who left, only people who stayed to cause trouble, and this also only applies in the land of Israeli. In a modern sense, the atheist who minds his or her own would be left alone. The atheist's that intentionally harassed believers would be stoned to death(but it would only apply in Israel).

4) Adultery, anyone who commits it and those involved in it are both put to death. Actually pretty progressive for the era, back then only women where put to death over adultery. Under Lev 20:10 anyone regardless of gender who commits adultery should be put to death. I don't know which is worse, sending scum to the gallows or our modern society that gives adulterers custody of children, the home and gigantic vagimony. Back then they didn't have the infrastructure for long term prisons. Today we do, but the atheist influenced society would rather reward adulterers then give them some reasonable punishment(10-20years in jail).

5) Lev 20:13. Look at all the STD's that are transmitted by rampant homosexual sex. Then their is the procreation angle(few people around). Also societies that accept homosexuality eventually decay and die. After Greece went through it's gay phase it was never able to recover to it's previous glory, same with Rome as well.

6) Deut 21: What the heck where they supposed to do with someone that was a violent drunkard? They didn't have prisons or rehab. And I think this is an example of Eugenics in the Bible if anything.

7) I think this is one of those hidden meaning moments. It reminds me of the concept: "the only way to win the war is to deny the battle". Also the literal meaning contradicts prohibitions against self mutilation.

8) When you get to Corinthians your starting to get to BS land. You have to remember the Mediterranean cultures where very patriarchal. And Paul was no where near as egalitarian as Jesus. And also those where letters Paul had written to Churchs in area's facing Crisis(was during the time of Roman persecution of Christians). That is what your reading. A Communication from Paul(An individual who was only told to stop hunting down Christians) to various Churchs. And it has been seriously suggested that if Paul knew the letters would end up in the Bible they never would of been written at all.

9)Slavery: Lev 25:44. Some take it to mean slavery is "a OK", but looking at it from a practical view and within it is an attempt to establish nationalism in Israel. It is more along the lines of "you can if you want to", almost a concession to a child. And the part of how slaves should be submissive, what happens to enslaved people that aren't compliant? They are tortured, maimed and killed. It seems like good advice to do what you got to do to survive. You also have to remember that slavery was the very first welfare type system.

10: Hosea: God is angry at the Israelite's for worshiping Baal and other Canaanite god's. The ending of Hosea 13 is pretty graphic but flip over to Hosea 14 and it appears to be(Hosea 13) a very wrathful, angry statement that has little meaning. You have to remember Hosea is during the time after Israel split into the Northern and Southern Kingdom.

This isn't a perfect rebuttal but I hope others look into how the sociopath atheist willfully twist's things to argue his own point.

Originally posted by Mr Mask
I do not understand your title.

"if these are in the bible"

"can they be debunked"

How can you debunk them if they are in the bible?

How do you debunk scripture that was written in languages that do not translate correctly into the language you "read" (or at least post in)?

Further more...each one of these quotes are very popular with the "frightened atheists club".

Yknow the club...the ones who are so afraid that someone may have "faith", so they organize large gatherings or missions to stomp out whatever "good feelings" a "god lover" may have.

Gotta love people who believe in nothing higher then man...because they love to try and destroy anyone who trusts in "something better".

Oh well...debunk them, I can not.

I know this is an old post but Ijust came across it, loved your reply, you should take a bow star