Terms we need to discuss

reply to post by lordtyp0


Funny that you would talk about dictionary terms while referencing a dictionary not even once. But of course would not be able to apply their own subjective slant to terms if one did. And since merriam-webster can refute you soo much better than I can. If, of course, one read's the entire entries mind you. But without further adu, here you go:

Skeptic

Main Entry: skep•tic
Pronunciation: \ˈskep-tik\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin or Greek; Latin scepticus, from Greek skeptikos, from skeptikos thoughtful, from skeptesthai to look, consider — more at spy
Date: 1587
1 : an adherent or advocate of skepticism
2 : a person disposed to skepticism especially regarding religion or religious principles

SOURCE
To further pan out the defintion:

Skepticism

Main Entry: skep•ti•cism
Pronunciation: \ˈskep-tə-ˌsi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1646
1 : an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object
2 a : the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain b : the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism characteristic of skeptics
3 : doubt concerning basic religious principles (as immortality, providence, and revelation)

synonyms see uncertainty

SOURCE

Theory

Main Entry: the•o•ry
Pronunciation: \ˈthē-ə-rē, ˈthir-ē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural the•o•ries
Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theōria, from theōrein
Date: 1592
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : speculation
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject

synonyms see hypothesis

SOURCE

Atheist

Main Entry: athe•ist
Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ist\
Function: noun
Date: 1551
: one who believes that there is no deity

— athe•is•tic \ˌā-thē-ˈis-tik\ or athe•is•ti•cal \ˌā-thē-ˈis-ti-kəl\ adjective

— athe•is•ti•cal•ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

SOURCE
To further pan out the defintion:

Atheism

Main Entry: athe•ism
Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

SOURCE

Religion

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

— re·li·gion·less adjective

SOURCE

Fundamentalism

Main Entry: fun•da•men•tal•ism
Pronunciation: \-tə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1922
1 a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs
2 : a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles

— fun•da•men•tal•ist \-tə-list\ noun

— fundamentalist or fun•da•men•tal•is•tic \-ˌmen-tə-ˈlis-tik\ adjective

SOURCE

Opinion

Main Entry: opin•ion
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpin-yən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
Date: 14th century
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

— opin•ioned \-yənd\ adjective

synonyms opinion, view, belief, conviction, persuasion, sentiment mean a judgment one holds as true. opinion implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute . view suggests a subjective opinion . belief implies often deliberate acceptance and intellectual assent

reply to post by lordtyp0

Censorship

Main Entry: cen•sor•ship
Pronunciation: \ˈsen(t)-sər-ˌship\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1591
1 a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively
2 : the office, power, or term of a Roman censor
3 : exclusion from consciousness by the psychic censor

SOURCE
And to further pan out the definition.

Censor

Main Entry: 1cen·sor
Pronunciation: \ˈsen(t)-sər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, Roman magistrate, from censēre to give as one's opinion, assess; perhaps akin to Sanskrit śaṁsati he praises
Date: 1526
1 : a person who supervises conduct and morals: as a : an official who examines materials (as publications or films) for objectionable matter b : an official (as in time of war) who reads communications (as letters) and deletes material considered sensitive or harmful
2 : one of two magistrates of early Rome acting as census takers, assessors, and inspectors of morals and conduct
3 : a hypothetical psychic agency that represses unacceptable notions before they reach consciousness

— cen·so·ri·al \sen-ˈsȯr-ē-əl\ adjective

SOURCE

Moral

Main Entry: 1mor·al
Pronunciation: \ˈmȯr-əl, ˈmär-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin moralis, from mor-, mos custom
Date: 14th century
1 a : of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical b : expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior c : conforming to a standard of right behavior d : sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment e : capable of right and wrong action
2 : probable though not proved : virtual
3 : perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect

— mor·al·ly \-ə-lē\ adverb

synonyms moral, ethical, virtuous, righteous, noble mean conforming to a standard of what is right and good. moral implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong . ethical may suggest the involvement of more difficult or subtle questions of rightness, fairness, or equity . virtuous implies moral excellence in character . righteous stresses guiltlessness or blamelessness and often suggests the sanctimonious . noble implies moral eminence and freedom from anything petty, mean, or dubious in conduct and character .

SOURCE

Ethic

Main Entry: eth·ic
Pronunciation: \ˈe-thik\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ethik, from Middle French ethique, from Latin ethice, from Greek ēthikē, from ēthikos
Date: 14th century
1 plural but sing or plural in constr : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2 a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values —often used in plural but singular or plural in construction b plural but sing or plural in constr : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group c : a guiding philosophy d : a consciousness of moral importance
3 plural : a set of moral issues or aspects (as rightness)

SOURCE

Nazi

Main Entry: Na·zi
Pronunciation: \ˈnät-sē, ˈnat-\
Function: noun
Etymology: German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist
Date: 1930
1 : a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler
2 often not capitalized a : one who espouses the beliefs and policies of the German Nazis : fascist b : one who is likened to a German Nazi : a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person

— nazi adjective often capitalized

— na·zi·fi·ca·tion \ˌnät-si-fə-ˈkā-shən, ˌnat-\ noun often capitalized

— na·zi·fy \ˈnät-si-ˌfī, ˈnat-\ transitive verb often capitalized

SOURCE

So, in otherwords, no you cannot set up the rules to the advantage of your stance. Have one for you though, I highlighted the pertenant entry.

Scientism

Main Entry: sci·en·tism
Pronunciation: \ˈsī-ən-ˌti-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1870
1 : methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist

2 : an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)

— sci·en·tis·tic \ˌsī-ən-ˈtis-tik\ adjective

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


It is difficult to respond to such a large post while maintaining any sort of cohesion. Though given the spirit of this thread is to try and find common ground with terms we all use and see. I am uncertain why you seem to have the "Gotcha" attitude of the last point of "Scientism".

The purpose is the actual meanings. For example though true that a "Nazi" is literally someone belonging to the Nazi party-when one calls a Fox News caster, or a Democratic Senator a Nazi, they are not actually calling them a member of the party... are they?

Some various points of response would be like Morality which someone already commented on and I replied to.


Another one that lept out at me was "Skepticism".
A dictionary makes a summary, a deffinition to fit within a paragraph or less. Something functional bu incompleted. One fo the things cited was epistemology. I find this ironic: The terms such as Skepticism have their origins in philisophy yet the dictionary did not mention how.

The following is from New World Encyclopedia

In a general sense, skepticism or scepticism (Greek: skeptomai, to look about, to consider) refers to any doctrine or way of thought denying the ability of our mind to reach certainty.

Originating in the human tendency to question the reliability of any statement before accepting it, skepticism has taken on a variety of forms throughout the ages. It can refer both to an attitude in ordinary life and to philosophical positions. Skepticism is often contrasted with dogmatism, the position that certain truth can be reached by the application of an appropriate method. Epistemology, the inquiry into the conditions for certainty in knowing, has led practically every thinker to adopt, at least temporarily, some form of limited skepticism in one regard or another. And some of the greatest philosophers, such as David Hume, have come to the conclusion that certain knowledge is essentially unattainable. By its very nature, skepticism is unsatisfactory as an end result. Whether it is ultimately embraced or rejected thus depends in great part on one’s general outlook of life, pessimism being generally associated with the skeptical option. In any case, however, skepticism has played an irreplaceable role as a catalyst in the history of philosophy.

As a side note:Synonyms do nothing to show definition. When talking about Eagles-saying it is like a Sparrow really does not help.

To say it again: My only agenda is to get people to define common used terms, which are used wrong.

(edit)
Watcher: TY for posting the dictionary. I should have done that previously in addition to the paragraphs I wrote. Suppose I was a bit lazy )

[edit on 3-12-2009 by lordtyp0]

reply to post by lordtyp0


I liked that paper on how they define cult in the AU. I do think it is somewhat subjective but the spirit of the paper is well defined.

reply to post by lordtyp0

It is difficult to respond to such a large post while maintaining any sort of cohesion. Though given the spirit of this thread is to try and find common ground with terms we all use and see. I am uncertain why you seem to have the "Gotcha" attitude of the last point of "Scientism".

The terms you dictated had a slant, a slant who's direction I merely answered up with the term I did.
But it's well known you must give ground in order to find "common ground". You did not allow for that considering you gave your particular slant to the terms in the tone *this is the way it is, this is this* you did.

The purpose is the actual meanings. For example though true that a "Nazi" is literally someone belonging to the Nazi party-when one calls a Fox News caster, or a Democratic Senator a Nazi, they are not actually calling them a member of the party... are they?

2 often not capitalized a : one who espouses the beliefs and policies of the German Nazis : fascist

b : one who is likened to a German Nazi : a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person

Some various points of response would be like Morality which someone already commented on and I replied to.

I was providing the dictionary terms for all the terms you used. Seeing to how, as I said, you spoke of dictionary terms then did not cite a dictionary.

Another one that lept out at me was "Skepticism".
A dictionary makes a summary, a deffinition to fit within a paragraph or less. Something functional bu incompleted. One fo the things cited was epistemology. I find this ironic: The terms such as Skepticism have their origins in philisophy yet the dictionary did not mention how.

Yet you said:

But what dictionaries say versus what we use or try and use.

Why exactly are you reneging now? And dictionaries prove the definition of words, not their histories beyond a short synopsis.

As a side note:Synonyms do nothing to show definition. When talking about Eagles-saying it is like a Sparrow really does not help.

The dictionary, once again, begs to differ.

Main Entry: syn·o·nym
Pronunciation: \ˈsi-nə-ˌnim\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinonyme, from Latin synonymum, from Greek synōnymon, from neuter of synōnymos synonymous, from syn- + onyma name — more at name
Date: 15th century
1 : one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses
2 a : a word or phrase that by association is held to embody something (as a concept or quality) b : metonym
3 : one of two or more scientific names used to designate the same taxonomic group — compare homonym

— syn·o·nym·ic \ˌsi-nə-ˈni-mik\ also syn·o·nym·i·cal \-mi-kəl\ adjective

— syn·o·nym·i·ty \-ˈni-mə-tē\ noun

SOURCE

To say it again: My only agenda is to get people to define common used terms, which are used wrong.

No, you are attempting to say "This is the way it is because I say so." while saying your refering to dictionary terms without actually referencing them.

Watcher: TY for posting the dictionary. I should have done that previously in addition to the paragraphs I wrote. Suppose I was a bit lazy

You're welcome. But, I really doubt it was laziness that stayed your hand. Call is skepticism. Especially when the slant is that obvious.


All of that being said, I am ALL FOR finding a common ground. I find this constant battle of beliefs to be a distressing and tiresome endeavor that only continues to get sillier. But attempting to set that so called "common ground" to your advantage is doing anything but attempting to find common ground.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Yes, there was some slant, this thread was partially a rant. I am in no way excusing myself from such slants. Case in point, the last two lines of "Fundamentalism" The idea was to discuss such things. I was not meaning to indict anyone or claim any form of superiority. As, guess what: I am not an Atheist. I do not belong to any religion.

Anyway, please chop responses down a bit, that way we don't wind up with walls of text getting truncated by mods and lost opportunity to discuss.

The thing that I am trying to explore is the usage of hot button terms. Everyone is guilty of it to an extent. One issue with them is what I think I have seen in your replies: They automatically make people guarded. I was not intending any sort of attack with this post. When I wrote the initial post I was tired and had just taken some pain pills, so-needless to say what I was visualizing didn't completely come out as I intended

What I was visualizing was almost a sub-lexicon that is used in forums like this. People saying things like "Thats only a theory.." when the context is a scientific Theorum.

You are 100% right in calling out the slant though please, don't lose sight of the intent.