Voynich Manuscript partially decoded

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European Voynich Alphabet?

en.wikipedia.org...

Modern English
In the orthography of Modern English, thorn (þ), eth (ð), wynn (ƿ), yogh (ȝ), ash (æ), and ethel (œ) are obsolete. Latin borrowings reintroduced homographs of ash and ethel into Middle and Early Modern English, though they are not considered to be the same letters[citation needed] but rather ligatures, and in any case are somewhat old-fashioned. Thorn and eth were both replaced by th, though thorn continued in existence for some time, its lowercase form gradually becoming graphically indistinguishable from the minuscule y in most handwriting. Y for th can still be seen in pseudo-archaisms such as “Ye Olde Booke Shoppe”. The letters þ and ð are still used in present-day Icelandic. Wynn disappeared from English around the fourteenth century when it was supplanted by uu, which ultimately developed into the modern w. Yogh disappeared around the fifteenth century and was typically replaced by gh.

The letters u and j, as distinct from v and i, were introduced in the sixteenth century, and w assumed the status of an independent letter, so that the English alphabet is now considered to consist of the following 26 letters:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

If the first link showing what Voynich letters match modern letters is correct then it would have to be written after the sixteenth century when the letters u and j were added.


[edit on 10-12-2009 by JBA2848]

Hi JBA

The EVA letters that were generated in the 1990s were for MODERN STUDY CONVENIENCE ONLY and not to be actually 'pronounced' as actual meaningful sounds using the sounds of modern alphabet signs--the coded transcription (Landini etal.) was designed ONLY as a handy reference mechanism using modern computer keyboards so people could transcribe the text easily on a typewriter style keyboard so it could be set out easier on the EYES i.e. as an aide to studying the ciphers with the intent of 'breaking' the Voynich CODE / CIPHERS which so far has eluded people (except for short snippets of apparently logical solutions here and there)

For all we knowe.g. the letter EVA: 'q' could mean not just one letter as we know them, but whole words, thoughts or ideas, e.g. 4 might mean: 'the healing properties reside in the root system' or as a marker meaning, 'use cipher code gate-type 6 for the following section' as opposed to the sound of the modern letter 'Q'.

In other words, EVA transcription 'alphabet' is not meant to show exact pronouncable letter co-orelations with anything like a post 16th century alphabet, least of all in English--so EVA transcriptions cannot be used to date this MS.

The single biggest hurdle to solving the cipher text is that apparantley no one knows 'for sure' the BASE LANGUAGE of the Voynich MS 408. If we 'knew for sure' the text was, say, unpointed - unvowelled Arabic we could go to town with a computer searching for Arabic roots and probably get a solution going in earnest within a couple of weeks.

But we do not know anything of the kind yet. It could be written in more than one language, or a mixture of two or more languages, or perhaps a whole NEW invented kind of scientific language using 'loosely related-thought-grams', as opposed to linguistic rules of normal syntax &tc.

I suspect that what we are dealing with could well be a northern Brescian Italian dialect from c. 1415 or it could be a mixture of Latin and Italian and Greek words (hence Herbal A and Herbal B dialects discernable in the 'cipher code' after numerous computer studies).

Either way, the VMS is certainly older than 1440 now that the carbon dating has been done on the actual vellum and inks ('the date the calf died') and although the text (natrually) was written later than the production of the vellum date, the question is: 'how much' longer.

Carbon dating and other tests on the ink suggest that the text was committed on to the vellum shortly after it was produced (within a couple of years as opposed to decades or centuries).

Either way, don't try to take EVA literally--it is only meant to speed the process along on the decipherment over the internet as a kind of 'easy on the eyes' and common 'font' type that most people using computers today out here in the west are familiar with and can in some way relate to...

(Now if the 'base language' of Beinicke MS 408 turns out to be late 14th century Manchu, we're going to have to revisit that handy old EVA transcription---but not until we know something concrete about the base language first !!)

tvthek.orf.at...

This is the recent video released about the Voynich Manuscript. Bad thing is its not in english.

Hypothetically, if Da Vinci did write this at a young age, to perfect his ability to use code, he was VERY familiar with what he was writing. I had read an analysis somewhere, I'll try and dig it up when I'm not tired, that showed the penmanship flowed too smoothly to be a cipher where someone would look for the correct value for their code and enter it. This was a familiar and casual use of the 'language'. Now that being said, can anyone point to someone from the 1500's who was a skilled linguist capable of such a feat.

Another thing I thought prudent, if there is no single way to crack the code, IE a different 'key' to every section, than the author practiced that key many times before putting the final value to paper.

In reality the person probably wrote several 'drafts' of each section before finalizing this finished version, meaning this is either a journal of some sort, or a very strange person felt the need to put enormous amounts of effort into creating something that no one could understand, I mean we can hardly determine whether the text runs right to left or left to right. The pictures were drawn first, as the text wraps around them, so perhaps notes were copied after a diagram was drawn. But for what purpose? Why go to such lengths to keep your grocery list secret?

Perhaps the 'key' is hidden in plain sight? I'm no cryptographer, so I'll stick to what I can speculate on. So what I can speculate is that:

A) What purpose would a Franciscan friar (Roger Bacon) who was also a doctor and skilled teacher, have to draw a bunch of naked women in water? Not to mention his penmanship is much different than the author of the manuscript (Example). Not to mention, the diagrams that Bacon drew look a lot more consistent, realistic, and thought out. He was a scientist.

B) Much of the subject matter is strange and convoluted. Like a lucid drug addict able to place their rambling mind into a strange context for themselves. Given the strange flora. Speculation at best I know, just throwing that out there.

C) Other others suggested were John Dee a mathematician who could potentially have drafted such a code, not to mention he definetly had an interest in the strange, and Edward Kelley. If you read their bios, their relationship is explained somewhat, and you can see SOME motivation for such a manuscript.

D) The thing that still sets off my wierdometer, is the effort involved. Someone went to GREAT lengths to create a code which, as we have proven by our efforts to decipher it, is not easy to crack. The images don't seem like they cover anything majorly secret and are of low quality given the effort involved in creating such a language/code. That being said if your a crazy, and you have some crazy ideas, I guess I can see why the two guys in C) would want to either hide their thoughts in a code perhaps for each other, as it was shown (in the analysis I mentioned earlier) that several penmen may have been involved, or one person over a very long period allowing for the change in penmanship. Although they partially ruled out the latter theory due to the consistency of the inks, and the fact that the beginning of the book isnt especially worn compared to the end. Again when I find the analysis I read I will post the link for your consumption.

Anyway food for thought not a crazy conspiracy just a cool little puzzle to work on, you can catch almost every page of the book here:

Voynich Manuscript

[edit on 14-12-2009 by JunoJive]

reply to post by JunoJive


In reading all of the posts, it would seem that this is a medical manual of some sort. Coding the collected information would be important to keep the knowledge from others to limit competition and to protect the owner from any heretical accusations that could threaten his/her life. Medicine at the time was not limited to the physical body but could include astrological and theological aspects, also. The information contained within the book may include philosophical speculation incompatible with Catholic dogma and would have been dangerous to possess.

In your linked reference, I happened on page 1006150 [page #39 of the section] by chance. The plants are reminiscent of the lily family [lily of the valley] and their roots are prominently shown. The flower that appears to have been added could be a single bell painted head on. The roots and runners contain cardiac glycosides, similar to digitalis, and would be used to treat heart problems.

reply to post by pteridine


That was my original assumption, that this was a medical journal of some sort, or at least a botanist who daydreamed. My problem with this is the relevance of some of the imagery. Now perhaps when the sections are decoded they will make sense, but nonetheless, a good interpretation. I assumed it wasn't Leonardo Da Vinci or anyone with huge influence in our history, since Leonardo was an artist, capable of much more accurate diagrams, than these.

But your right, if this is from the 1500's than any claim that astrology or alchemy were more useful for health than faith, would get you excommunicated or worse. So ya, probably just someone being cautious. Still cant get over the effort in creating a code for each section, and the ease with which the author worked with that code.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by JunoJive]

Originally posted by JunoJive
But for what purpose? Why go to such lengths to keep your grocery list secret?

Because people practicing arcane "arts" were tortured when found.

Originally posted by JunoJive
Perhaps the 'key' is hidden in plain sight? I'm no cryptographer, so I'll stick to what I can speculate on.

You do not need a "key" when writing a second language, look at some of the languages from the north, Old Icelandic, Old West Norse and so on.

Example here.
gandalf.aksis.uib.no...

You need to "understand" the language, not find a cipher.

Another example.

www.omniglot.com...

[edit on 14-12-2009 by prof-rabbit]

reply to post by prof-rabbit


It is likely that were it an arcane language, someone would have recognized it by now. A German professor I knew well could sight read and translate any Germanic language, including ancient Norse and Icelandic. I would imagine that she was not the only one.
The manuscript is likely to be encrypted. As to the ease of writing, a philosopher or a person who had based a livelihood on advanced medical skills skirting heresey may have been writing in this code for a lifetime. It could even be a copy of an encyclopedic work of alchemists and physicians sharing knowledge in their own codes. One can't be too careful with defenestrations in the offing.

You do not need a "key" when writing a second language, look at some of the languages from the north, Old Icelandic, Old West Norse and so on.

You need to "understand" the language, not find a cipher.

What I meant by key was that, the creator of this particular thread, said that the botany section had been partial translated but they couldn't use the same method to translate the rest of the text. So there must have been a different sequence of substitution for each section. Which would require practice to refine the 'NEW' language, and then utilize it with the obvious finesse required for handwriting. Now granted, you are correct, there may be a fundamental 'rule' to the language that is being overlooked, and those who know the language, know how to interpret the symbols/imagery/subjects to read the language.

So yes instead of a strict mathematical code, we may have a language that requires some sort of 'key' or 'phrase' in order to properly translate.

I do believe that in one way or another this IS a language. Codes can be broken quickly, that's why in WWII allies used the Navajo language to send messages, because languages are much harder to crack and understand do to the cultural influence on language and vice-versa. Then again, we couldn't crack the Nazi code either. Unless we understand the author's purpose/culture/motivations/whatever, chances are we wont break this anytime soon.

I also wanted to just throw something out there to ponder over I make no claims to know something you don't, but if this was written by a medicine man of sorts, and these are instructions on using plants for elixirs etc, than the strange imagery with the bathing women, may be some sort of indicator as to ratio. What I mean by this is, 5 women sitting in a pool, could mean 5 (tbs. of salt/whatever) for every indeterminate amount of water/substrate. Just encoded so no one who couldn't read the language could view the pictures and understand what was being said.

Besides that, maybe we could speculate on the person's background based on the physical penmanship. I mean it certainly seems more likely that the author was Italian or French, as opposed to say Russian or Chinese. I'm basing this purely off my reasoning that a person from a country like China which uses a pictographic language, would hardly be a 'natural' at European style handwriting. And there is no indication that this text was in any way difficult to produce.

It is likely that were it an arcane language, someone would have recognized it by now. A German professor I knew well could sight read and translate any Germanic language, including ancient Norse and Icelandic. I would imagine that she was not the only one.

Your probably right here, it is surprising that given how many people have attempted to translate/decode the text it remains uncracked. Its not like these people haven't worked with past languages and texts that had eluded translation. Then again we might still not understand Egyptian hieroglyphics were it not for the Rosetta stone. But as Sherlock Holmes said, "Any puzzle created by a mortal mind, can be solved therewith." But hey, he was fictional.

The manuscript is likely to be encrypted. As to the ease of writing, a philosopher or a person who had based a livelihood on advanced medical skills skirting heresey may have been writing in this code for a lifetime. It could even be a copy of an encyclopedic work of alchemists and physicians sharing knowledge in their own codes. One can't be too careful with defenestrations in the offing.

Just another indicator that it IS a language and not a code. One that perhaps requires a cultural reference to understand as opposed to the correct cipher. Either way its an impressive work, i mean its remained a mystery for 509 years and count.

I know I've been flip flopping between whether its a code or a language, but I guess its both, so no sense arguing semantics.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by JunoJive]

reply to post by JunoJive


Thanks for your posts. The Navajo language was indecipherable because there was no written language for anyone to study. You need a "code talker" familiar with the nuances of the language to use metaphor and talk arounds so transmissions relating to the same thing do not always use the same words. Code talkers were very valuable in tactical situations and my WW2 Marine relatives attest to that.
The German code was cracked by the Allies, as was the Japanese Naval Code. That is why they won more than inspired generalship. Knowing what the enemy will do before he does is very helpful. Knowing where subs will surface to relpenish from the milchcows really puts a crimp in wolf pack attacks on convoys. [One time that the orders didn't come directly from Berlin for the Allies to crack was known as the Battle of the Bulge.] The Germans did two things that greatly helped: they set orders from Berlin to their armies and they always started the crypto day with an inspiring Aryan quote. Knowing the settings of the enigma machine [modifed design of the American original smuggled out by a brave Polish engineer] gave them the entire message traffic for the crypto day. Knowing that a quote from Goethe was more likely to be the daily test message than one from Stalin helped immensly when determining the settings of the rotors and stepper rings. The book The Ultra Secret by F.W. Winterbotham tells the tale, if you are interested.

Originally posted by JunoJive

Just another indicator that it IS a language and not a code. One that perhaps requires a cultural reference to understand as opposed to the correct cipher. Either way its an impressive work, i mean its remained a mystery for 509 years and count.

I know I've been flip flopping between whether its a code or a language, but I guess its both, so no sense arguing semantics.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by JunoJive]

Remember also that ancient majick is a harmonic language with many rituals.

5 women in water.... 5 maidens - 5 elements - 5 points - and so on.

Mercury, the Maiden of Journeys
Venus, the Maiden of Serenity
Mars, the Maiden of Battles
Jupiter, the Maiden of Secrets
Saturn, the Maiden of Endings

Originally posted by pteridine

The German code was cracked by the Allies, as was the Japanese Naval Code.

They had to board a u-boat and steal the machine that could decipher it, but ya I guess that counts as cracking it.

reply to post by JunoJive


It was a bit more complicated than that. Having a machine was not the same as a machine and the daily key. See www.usna.edu...

reply to post by Sigismundus


Hi Sigismundus,

You mentioned that "some of the Diaries of the grandfather/grand-uncle of Mona Lisa where 4o and 4 are used &tc. fairly frequently as some kind of code (Northern Italian-Brescian)". That's a new one to me, can I ask you what the formal reference for those diaries are? I'd really like to check them out for myself...

It is great that someone that knows Botany recognized the plant, because I have gone over and over it. But putting Leonardo's stamp on it is just a sell gemic. It might have been done in his time, but I didn't see the evidence to prove that. To just have someone to identify the plants is great. These plants are ones with medical cures and evidentally important at that time. Many, Many, Scholars have looked at this manuscript, from many field's of knowledge, identifiying the plants were probably not that hard to do. But I totally do not get the connection to Leonardo.

reply to post by coolottie


See my thread.

They have carbon dated the manuscript to da Vinci's period.

Voynich Manuscript - Diary Of An Alien Or A Madman? 100 Years Older Than First Thought.

www.abovetopsecret.com

Fantastic, that's the only word for it. Thanks for posting.

It mad me think of how Witches were treated in those days and could this be the secret recordings of the potions used?
Is the language unfathonable because it was a private collection of spells and potions and designed in such a way that it protected the author?

Will keep a watch on this - thanks again.

The "Key" Is Archeology.
Civilizations builds on the ruins of the previous.
Get your shovels, i bet the key is buried somewhere.

reply to post by timewalker


Why in the heck is your thread 404'd and unavailable on the searches? I was really enjoying reading and had made a contribution too...

Mods - any reason for this? An NSA document was linked from the thread - I'm suspicious...

Argh! that be a treasure map!

X marks the spot!