Don't be fooled by ATS' professional debunkers

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Lillydale

 

And again, all those were statements made in the heat of the moment, when lots of things were said that were not accurate. I am not going to call someone going through something like that a liar.

Which is it?

One more time, the first responders made their statements. Those statements have been taken out of context or twisted to fit the needs of those with other motives

First no one said it. Then it was taken out of context. Now it was the heat of the moment. Shift goals much?

This should get a forever sticky so every new person to the forum reads it.

In fact, im putting this thread in my signature.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Are you sure English is your primary language? All the items listed, were items recovered by the US military and its Allies and taken for proper disposal. If I were you, I would ask why the ISG played so fast and loose with the truth.

Yes I am and that is why you have completely failed to answer my questions. I am trying to offer that you did not understand them. If you are claiming that you are just purposely being deceptive then I am not sure why you are here.

Honest question here for you (or anyone else that would like to answer), if you were searching the house of a bomb maker and you found a hidden room in which you found ten pounds of plastic explosive and a detonator, would you consider that something innocent?

Great question. Is that what happened? Did we really start two wars over ten pounds of plastic explosives hidden a room somewhere?

First 20 pages filled semantics, "explosions" or "explosives". Of course it was one of the crafty professionals who knew very early on that Obfuscation is key, and having the opposition focus on simply one aspect of the investigation for a long period of time buys "them" enough time to subsequently "kill" the thread, or let it die of too many convoluted and prolonged posts for lurkers. Not so in this case, this thread is now my sig. Great stuff GoldenFleece, hats off to you my friend.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
A sarin warhead is considered a WMD, it does not matter how old it is or if is has lost some of its potency. Just as a 30 year old nuclear bomb that has the detonation mechanism disconnected, is still considered a WMD.

www.cia.gov... pg 19
"However, ISG believes that any remaining chemical munitions in Iraq do not pose a militarily significant threat to Coalition Forces because the agent and munitions are degraded and there are NOT ENOUGH EXTANT WEAPONS TO CAUSE MASS CASUALTIES."

Jeesh, how could the ISG be so wrong? I think they should have a new investigation and put that John Grosse from NIST in charge, so he can just deny any discovery of residual sarin like he did the molten metal at Ground Zero. Would make the government's PR office much more happy and less stressed out.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Yes, we sold quite a bit of dual use items to Iraq. They were sold for civilian purposes for the most part. Thats the problem with bio/chem agents, they can be made out of items meant for other uses.

www.cia.gov... pg 22
"ISG judges that Iraq'a remaining chemical and biological physical infrastructure does not pose a proliferation concern. The effects of sanctions, war, and looting have destroyed, displaced, or severely degraded much of Iraq's dual-use equipment. However, the missing equipment could contribute to insurgent or terrorist production of chemical or biological agents."

How and why did Saddam's iron-fisted rule allow looting of these sites? Oh wait, I seem to remember a particular looting problem back in 2003 after we invaded. I guess the dumb "terrorists" grabbed the big screen TV's and the smart ones grabbed some dual-use equipment.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
However, the ISG, did us a disservice when the passed all the chem weapons we found (and their precursor chemicals) as "agricultural" in nature.

www.cia.gov... Pg 22
"ISG found no stockpiles of precursor chemicals necessary for synthesis of militarily significant quantities of agent."

Wait a second! Maybe John Grosse did participate in the ISG report! Good Job, John! The government's PR machine thanks you! Hold a sec... the previous PR was arguing completely the opposite.... ah well... who will notice?

reply to post by NIcon


Pretty sure I've pointed out at least once that the ISG report had some serious problems.....

Nicon, do you care to answer the question I posted earlier? Ah nevermind. I'll go ahead and just make the point here. You search the house of a bombmaker, you find a hidden room and in said room you find a bunch of C-4 and some detonators. Now, would you feel that those items arent important? Because in the same position, the ISG would say that those items were not a big deal.


That is just the thing that the ISG did numerous times in Iraq. But go ahead and stick with the "conventional" wisdom.

Why don't we make a list of the professional debunkers and then make a pact and put them all on ignore, if they know there voices are silenced they will soon stop posting here, and go to some other forum. We have the power to chase them away from ATS if we do this. It would be member censorship.

And I am not talking about people who have questions or maybe don't agree on the details, I am talking about members who make troll posts after posts in the dedicated 9/11 forum to conspiracy here at ATS. It's easy to check people's post history. I think there might be only a dozen at most actually.

Seriously if you really have spent any time at ATS and still believe a few Arabs were able to co-ordinate the destruction of 3 buildings, 4 planes and damage the Pentagon all within a short time, with no help or planning from "other" sources. And still believe the governments story 100% you are either emotionally delusional, or a professional debunker, perhaps paid or not.
Either way it doesn't matter to me because the result is the same.
And really the sooner these people stop posting at ATS the better.

[edit on 6-12-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


We could start with the ones that have been caught blatantly lying. I have already listed 4 of them. Like you said, constructive debate is great. There is no point in discussing anything if there is no opposing view. These trolls that have gone out of their way to skirt the truth in their pursuit of whatever need to be blocked out.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Seriously if you really have spent any time at ATS and still believe a few Arabs were able to co-ordinate the destruction of 3 buildings, 4 planes and damage the Pentagon all within a short time, with no help or planning from "other" sources

And it is precisely that kind of arrogance that was rife within our Government that made it so easy for us to be hit as hard as we were.


"Those d*mn, dirty, ignorant Arabs ain't smart enough to hurt us."


People like you assume that I am here to defend the government story no matter what. Which is a false assumption. I am the first one to say that our elected officials (both parties) have been screwing up our national security since the 70s.

My biggest beef with truthers is that they are so arrogant in assuming that those A-rabs couldn't hurt us without overt help from the US government that they are blind to the raping of our national security.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

My biggest beef with truthers is that they are so arrogant in assuming that those A-rabs couldn't hurt us without overt help from the US government that they are blind to the raping of our national security.

Why couldn't they hurt us? Better question... Why would they? Because they hate freedom like George Bush says? Give me a break.

Don't even bother arguing the above; its opinion. However, bombs in the towers which have been proven over, and over, and over... could not have been done by Al Qaeda alone. Al Qaeda could not have made Norad stand down, plant all of the bombs, and then just coincidentally get a free ride out of America by US government.

reply to post by The_Zomar


Oh yeah theres all kinds of proof bombs were set off in the world trade center.If you have any proof of this what so ever i would suggest you immediately contact your local news station.Apparently you blew the lid off the conspiracy thing.Ill look forward to seeing this story on my local news thanks for the heads up i can tell my friends.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


No, what is arrogant is hearing recordings of explosions and seeing hundreds of witnesses talk about all number of explosions, and then assume you know what caused them when you actually have no idea and no evidence.

And you have so much blind faith in your government that you won't even consider for a second that they were bombs, and don't even care whether we ever find out what they really were or not because you are so ARROGANT that you still think you already know what was causing all of them, destroying a 300-lb door in the basement, blowing out lobby windows, blowing out lower-level elevator shafts and filling the basements with smoke.

reply to post by dragonridr


The lid was already blown on 9/11 when all this stuff was originally reported (hundreds of people attesting to all number of explosions), and never subsequently investigated. No tests for explosive residues, bombs, no follow ups whatsoever to FBI and police reports of explosives and "suspicious devices."

Now we have been dealing with the aftermath since that day, which mainly consists of stubborn and arrogant people such as yourself that think you already know everything that happened when really all you did was plant your face in the TV.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

Seriously if you really have spent any time at ATS and still believe a few Arabs were able to co-ordinate the destruction of 3 buildings, 4 planes and damage the Pentagon all within a short time, with no help or planning from "other" sources

And it is precisely that kind of arrogance that was rife within our Government that made it so easy for us to be hit as hard as we were.


"Those d*mn, dirty, ignorant Arabs ain't smart enough to hurt us."


People like you assume that I am here to defend the government story no matter what. Which is a false assumption. I am the first one to say that our elected officials (both parties) have been screwing up our national security since the 70s.

My biggest beef with truthers is that they are so arrogant in assuming that those A-rabs couldn't hurt us without overt help from the US government that they are blind to the raping of our national security.

Actually I do think the Arabs are intelligent enough to do us harm, just look the ways they have developed in Iraq and Afghanistan to do that.

But the 9/11 operation plan was way beyond just intelligence, or doing us harm. It is a classic false flag operations that governments have been running and using for many years. Get the people on your side, even get an unintelligent president on your side.
Look at how Bush was talking during the 2000 election debates, who is this guy because I don't recognize him by the policies he was talking about.
He was vaulted to that spot because he would be easy to control and guide by all the neo-cons.
I really wonder if 9/11 would have happened if Gore won?


Who is This Masked Man?

[edit on 6-12-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 6-12-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

The only people I would ever believe are ones who were actually there!
Like firefighters, first responders, reporters, etc.
People who witnessed it firsthand would be far more credible than
anyone on here unless they were actually there and took samples.
No, being in iraq doesnt count....
Just sayin'. Everyone has an opinion. That's all it is.
If you wasnt there, you are just throwing out a guess too.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
It's over, mission accomplished. Objectives acheived.
The continual crashing of america is proceding along as I type this.


[edit on 6-12-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by Copernicus
This should get a forever sticky so every new person to the forum reads it.

In fact, im putting this thread in my signature.

Originally posted by Majorion
First 20 pages filled with semantics, "explosions" or "explosives". Of course it was one of the crafty professionals who knew very early on that Obfuscation is key, and having the opposition focus on simply one aspect of the investigation for a long period of time buys "them" enough time to subsequently "kill" the thread, or let it die of too many convoluted and prolonged posts for lurkers. Not so in this case, this thread is now my sig. Great stuff GoldenFleece, hats off to you my friend.

Thanks very much to the both of you. It's an honor that my thread appears in your signatures.



[edit on 6-12-2009 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

 

I should have known, you think the entire US military was in on it...........

That is a not true, I never said that.

Where did I ever say the entire military?

I have never, ever, said the entire US military was involved and you know that. Swampfox46_1999, are you so desperate to discredit me that now you have resorted to telling lies? I have always said a handful of experts, in the military.

Why don’t you show the post that I have accused the “entire military ” of pulling of 911 and if you can’t then I demand an apology and if you don’t, then don bother posting to me ever again… You went too far this time.

I will gladly bow out of this thread with my head down now that I know that Saddam was going to blow up America with muster gas.

Umm, no, but then we werent going to take the chance that Saddam might start selling his WMDs to terrorists after 9/11 either.

Yeah old muster gas as WMD.

Latest Update: Pentagon official further confirms munitions can "not be fired as designed." Earlier update: Pentagon says Iraq's 'WMDS' are too old to use.

Swampfox46_1999, I am still waiting for my apology or for you to retract your lie. One way or the other, you need to make this right.

Where do you get off talking to people like that and think you are not accountable for your actions. Boy, if I made up a vicious lie about you, you would not let it go. So do the right thing and apologize and we can move on.


[edit on 6-12-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by mike dangerously

 

One more time, the first responders made their statements. Those statements have been taken out of context or twisted to fit the needs of those with other motives. I have yet to speak (in person) to a first responder who was there that day that thinks there were bombs in the buildings.

You went from using "mistaken." to "taken out of context" and "twisted to fit an agenda."Seems you can't really make up your mind about what they told reporters but,then again the same spin was used against the eyewitness's testimony in Dealy Plaza in Dallas.So,when sholud we expect you to actually answer a honest question directly?

[edit on 073131p://3526 by mike dangerously]

reply to post by impressme
I would not hold my breath impressme,in his mind he's some sort of hero he is above the rules around here.I'm sure we will get hit with the usual claims of being anti-American and unpatriotic.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Come on, you have to admit that it is really entertaining.

They didn't hear or see explosives. Lots of things sounded like "explosions" but NO ONE claimed to hear or see "explosives." _BoneZ_ lied about first responders. Apparently, you need to also.

-Jthomas

Those statements have been taken out of context or twisted to fit the needs of those with other motives

- Swampfox

And again, all those were statements made in the heat of the moment, when lots of things were said that were not accurate.

- Swampfox

and yet...

There's a bomb in the building - start clearing out...We got a secondary device in the building

- firefighter on the scene



What is the next line going to be? 'Ok, it was said but that was Rob Riggle from TDS because he was part of the fraud from 9/10.'

'OK, so at least one first responder actually did say that because apparently that is what someone reported to them (random citizen with a radio, investigating the buildings I am sure.) But they did not mean to say it because it was really a ventriloquist from behind the camera.'

They are getting more entertaining each time.