Truth be told: Fact on Trial.

This is somewhat of an experiment for the I.

Please do the following for me;

1. Debunk free will.
2. Debunk freedom.
3. Debunk consciousness.
4. Set for me the necessary conditions for them to exist and if possible, the sufficient ones for them to be "factual".

No Woos and wait, wait again, wait more; I have a new word for you all!

Spitters; pseudo-philosophers.

I just want to see how far I could go to debunk your thinking.

So lets call it, "debunking my own self as a natural narcissist" in order for all of us to have a good laugh with that; as in me.

I await patiently.

Do not disappoint me.

Ps: Use all of your tools. You will definitely need them.

T.T

I offer you the immortal wisdom of the I Ching.

Hex. 4: YOUTHFUL FOLLY

It is not I who seek the young fool;
The young fool seeks me.
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times, it is importunity.
If he importunes, I give him no information.

Rephrase your questions with less arrogance and more courtesy and someone may be moved to instruct you. I might even do so myself.

Originally posted by SS.Invictus
This is somewhat of an experiment for the I.

Please do the following for me;

1. Debunk free will.
2. Debunk freedom.
3. Debunk consciousness.

Are you suggesting that all of those concepts are "bunk"?

There are fascinating discussions to be had about all of those concepts, however I strongly suspect that you wouldn'd be interested - I'm guessing you have an agenda.

4. Set for me the necessary conditions for them to exist and if possible, the sufficient ones for them to be "factual".

Give me one good reason to do that?

So lets call it, "debunking my own self as a natural narcissist" in order for all of us to have a good laugh with that; as in me.

Did you translate this from Urdu, using an online translator?

Originally posted by Astyanax
I offer you the immortal wisdom of the I Ching.

Hex. 4: YOUTHFUL FOLLY

It is not I who seek the young fool;
The young fool seeks me.
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times, it is importunity.
If he importunes, I give him no information.

Rephrase your questions with less arrogance and more courtesy and someone may be moved to instruct you. I might even do so myself.

Erm.

I said no SPITTERS.

You could post me all the philosophy of enlightenment all you want.

I am not a slacker who is going to read it and say "Wow! S*** man, this is so cool".

I didnt ask you to make love to me, marry me or take me home for a romantic dinner.

Either you can prove to me that free will, freedom and consciousness is an illusion or not.

As simple as that.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

Are you suggesting that all of those concepts are "bunk"?

There are fascinating discussions to be had about all of those concepts, however I strongly suspect that you wouldn'd be interested - I'm guessing you have an agenda.

Well you are a bad oracle.

I didnt suggest anything.

Since those words and terms, expressions and concepts "exist" in the eye of the public, I just wanted to see how well I could do with them; either saying that they dont or do exist.

Give me one good reason to do that?

Well if your agenda is so profound, I suspect you could do that.

It takes more than just saying "they exist! no they dont!" agreed?

Agreed.

And because you wuve me.

Did you translate this from Urdu, using an online translator?

No. It was Kurdu. Tu tu.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by SS.Invictus]

[edit on 27-11-2009 by SS.Invictus]

reply to post by SS.Invictus


OK, I'll play!

Originally posted by SS.Invictus
1. Debunk free will.
2. Debunk freedom.

If birthed, and then left immediately alone and stranded, you will die.

Originally posted by SS.Invictus
3. Debunk consciousness.

One can not bite one's own teeth. Consciousness is a function of terminology, and therefore an artificial construct.

Originally posted by SS.Invictus
4. Set for me the necessary conditions for them to exist and if possible, the sufficient ones for them to be "factual".

Self-sufficiency and discretionary immortality.

Originally posted by SS.Invictus
No Woos and wait, wait again, wait more; I have a new word for you all!

Spitters; pseudo-philosophers.

Pardon my phlegm.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by loam]

Do I win a prize or somethin'?

Originally posted by loam
If birthed, and then left immediately alone and stranded, you will die.

So are you suggesting that the only way you can have free will is if there are no consequences or bad things that can happen ever? Free will is the ability to make a choice.

Seems that would be like saying if you had free will, you could move the moon with your mind or something like that.

But you know, part of free will is the ability to give it away. And the reality we know can only exist in a limited perception.

One can not bite one's own teeth. Consciousness is a function of terminology, and therefore an artificial construct.

Consciousness is a word that is used to express the state of being aware. That is like saying an "apple" is just letters.

Self-sufficiency and discretionary immortality.

Does that mean it's possible to "grow" into freewill? If so, that would also in itself nullify your original point with the birth correct?

reply to post by badmedia

Originally posted by badmedia
So are you suggesting that the only way you can have free will is if there are no consequences or bad things that can happen ever?

No. What I am saying is that without self-sufficiency, you hardly have free will and certainly no freedom.

Originally posted by badmedia
Consciousness is a word that is used to express the state of being aware. That is like saying an "apple" is just letters.

An apple is a tangible and measurable item.

Consciousness is not. Are single cell organisms conscious? Are mites? Are snails? Are dogs? Are people? When does consciousness occur? How do you know?

Originally posted by badmedia
Does that mean it's possible to "grow" into freewill? If so, that would also in itself nullify your original point with the birth correct?

No. The question essentially was what would be the required conditions for those items (freedom, free will and consciousness) to exist.

I provided the necessary two conditions- self-sufficiency and discretionary immortality.

I did not say they were attainable.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by loam]

I was wondering how this thread would go.

It went the way I expected it--straight at the buffers.

Invicutie pussycat, I think it's time you bought yourself a new attitude.