ATS & Paranoia--An Almost Sickening Trend

Hello ladies and germs.

I like to put up one of these thought provoking threads whenever I get the chance and this time, it's because I have been irked recently by the rise of paranoia here.

Ok, we are a conspiracy website, I undertand that. Of course we are going to take the news stories, the personal accounts, the technology and everything else we discuss here and try to hash out what is really happenning and the agenda behind the lies.

However, we seem to do this, or attempt to do this, even when common sense, logic and morality would tell us that the story is truthful and really there is nothing to complain about.

Not Everything Is A Conspiracy.
Not EVERY politican/leader/group is trying to destory our nations.
There are some GOOD people who are doing important, moraly sound things.

I am fast approaching my one here at ATS. A year filled with wonderous conversations, hard battles and intellectual growth. I've seen many good members leave this place over silly and trivial things, I have seen many new members who have schooled me in my train of thought and have brought wonderous contributions to the board.

Which brings me to those who seem to rejoice in trying to find a problem with the government, or how a new law will be used to destroy the constitution, or bring the NWO to fruition.

Can we not simply enjoy those stories and those experiences which are positive? Why all the negativity? Are there not positive conspiracy theories that actually benefit us in some way?

I'd like to open the conversation about Paranoia on ATS and how it not only effects our threads and the direction they end up going in, but also effects our image to the conspiracy community as a whole.

We need to step up the discourse, Deny Ignorance in those times where fear and paranoia are not warranted.

Thoughts Anybody?

~Keeper

I think similar. I have no problems at all with the idea of the eu, and no one seems to be able to tell us, whats wrong with countries living in peace.

Like ron paul, yep he may be a politician, but we all know they are corrupt, but at least the geezer speaks the truth and we know he does. No one is perfect and like you say, not everyone in these things knows everything and is part of it.

Ron paul, even tells you, hardly anyone on the money committees in congress, even knew about the fed. That just shows you.

But op has to understand real horrible things are going on in this world, and of course not all is conspiracy, but there are alot of real conspiracies. Just look at man made global warming, which is rubbish, and would effect us all all over this planet. Thats why i think the russians released the info, in those emails, as it would cost alot for countries as a whole.

I've seen a member with the sig "good news is boring", pretty much sums up why we favor the more elaborate threads. I try not to view the world through conspiritorial eyes, most things can be explained and understood, without attching a conspiracy theory to it. However,this is not to say that there arn't any conspiracies, corruption deceipt and lying are common place within our nations establishments.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I agree with you, as stated above of course there are many, actually I would say most who are in power are trying to change things in favor of a one world agenda.

And you make a good point, good news is boring I guess in these times, but that should not distract us from seeing the true conspiracies from the "fluff" ones which are really just disinformation in disguise.

~Keeper

You just read my reply on another thread didn't you;

Originally posted by FortAnthem
I hate the fact that the evil TPTB are doing something I wholehartedly support.
Hate it, hate, it, hate it!

The abuse of children involved in this cannot be ignored.
The argument that person viewing the kiddieporn had nothing to do with the original abuse cannot be accepted. They support the abuse with their money.

ANYONE who enjoys looking at this garbage needs to be thrown in a pit and forgotten.

Those that make it need to hanged, then drawn & quartered ala Braveheart.

I hate the fact that TPTB are using this issue to encroach on our freedoms of speech. They are giving us something we desperately need and which NO SANE person could argue against in order to further their nefarious agenda.

Hate it, hate, it, hate it!

Guilty as charged!

Yeah, I think you are right, I am getting a little too paranoid, it is possible there are some good people just trying to do some good things.

Maybe they really aren't trying to poison us throught our toilet paper after all.

That doesn't mean we should let our guard down though..

Originally posted by FortAnthem
That doesn't mean we should let our guard down though..

Yep, the conspiracy is probably too big for anyone to imagine, really. they hide things in plain site, as the public think they are too intelligent not to notice, but the public do not notice.

Just because everything is a conspiracy, the word conspiracy is open to all sorts of things, as it just takes two people to make one, and people we all know, are mostly selfish beings, only out for themselves.

Just remember that even though they are making the nwo, they cannot do it with just them, they need others all of us, to come along. So you too have a chance to make tomorrow.

Well said...I am proud to say I haven't fallen into the many many trap of paranoia here

still love the place though

-Kyo

I can't help but think that the more I find out about the ways we've been lied to so far,and the more we find out about the poisons (knowingly) put into our food,water,and air,...the more I'm apt to not trust anything the world has to offer.

That's one reason I find my faith in God and His promises so reassuring. I do trust in that!(And that is not the same God that's mentioned on our currency!)

But just because one person doesn't see a "conspiracy" doesn't mean there isn't one there that someone else might see.

If a certain thread isn't to your taste,just move along. Or make better ones? People are here looking to see what others see beneath the surface of things. Give them that chance. You don't have to agree.

It's funny. I've been a conspiracy buff for a long time. Read Jim Keith, Alex Constantine, Feral House Press, Disinfo, Jim Marrs, etc. It was Marrs's book "Above Top Secret that brought me here. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I'm no technology hating luddite or anything but I've never had much use for the internet. But I came on here and for a while it was interesting. But I'm with you. Not a lot of conspiracy stuff lately. A day doesn't go by without postings on celebrities like Palin, Beck(the pundit, not the musician), Limbaugh, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. The endless stream of the world will end tomorrow posts. ATS has lost it's edge. It's just like any other website now. I am reminded of Shakespeares line, "It is a tale, Told by an idiot, All sound and fury, Signifying nothing". It's weird. It took a conspiracy website to realize conspiracy theory is a nowhere road. It was fun, but not that much fun. At least I have more time to play with my kids. Now that's enlightening.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


tothetenthpower, while I see what you're saying, I cannot wholly agree with your ascertainment.

I am of course speaking of Washington D.C. and the power elite.

I see both sides playing us against each other, instead of us playing both sides against the middle, we are being had completely, the entire thing is a giant con job, a card-sharks game of Three-Card Monte, or a shell game.

The Old Shell Game


Three Card Monte Street Hustle


It is all an illusion meant to strip us of our money, our freedom, and our right to a free nation.

It is for a lack of better words, divide and conquer, the Hegelian Dialectic in action.

Hegelian Dialectic- Problem, Reaction, Solution explained 1/3


Hegelian Dialectic- Problem, Reaction, Solution explained 2/3


Hegelian Dialectic- Problem, Reaction, Solution explained 3/3

Quote from : Wikipedia : Dialectic : Hegelian Dialectic

Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a three-fold manner, was stated by Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus as comprising three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis, and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis.

Although this model is often named after Hegel, he himself never used that specific formulation. Hegel ascribed that terminology to Kant.

Carrying on Kant's work, Fichte greatly elaborated on the synthesis model, and popularized it.

On the other hand, Hegel did use a three-valued logical model that is very similar to the antithesis model, but Hegel's most usual terms were: Abstract-Negative-Concrete.

Sometimes Hegel would use the terms, Immediate-Mediated-Concrete. Hegel used these terms hundreds of times throughout his works.

The formula, Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis, does not explain why the Thesis requires an Antithesis.

However, the formula, Abstract-Negative-Concrete, suggests a flaw in any initial thesis—it is too abstract and lacks the negative of trial, error and experience.

The same applies to the formula, Immediate-Mediated-Concrete. For Hegel, the Concrete, the Synthesis, the Absolute, must always pass through the phase of the Negative, that is, Mediation.

This is the actual essence of what is popularly called Hegelian Dialectics.

To describe the activity of overcoming the negative, Hegel also often used the term Aufhebung, variously translated into English as "sublation" or "overcoming," to conceive of the working of the dialectic.

Roughly, the term indicates preserving the useful portion of an idea, thing, society, etc., while moving beyond its limitations. (Jacques Derrida's preferred French translation of the term was relever).

In the Logic, for instance, Hegel describes a dialectic of existence: first, existence must be posited as pure Being (Sein); but pure Being, upon examination, is found to be indistinguishable from Nothing (Nichts).

When it is realized that what is coming into being is, at the same time, also returning to nothing (in life, for example, one's living is also a dying), both Being and Nothing are united as Becoming.

As in the Socratic dialectic, Hegel claimed to proceed by making implicit contradictions explicit: each stage of the process is the product of contradictions inherent or implicit in the preceding stage.

For Hegel, the whole of history is one tremendous dialectic, major stages of which chart a progression from self-alienation as slavery to self-unification and realization as the rational, constitutional state of free and equal citizens.

The Hegelian dialectic cannot be mechanically applied for any chosen thesis. Critics argue that the selection of any antithesis, other than the logical negation of the thesis, is subjective.

Then, if the logical negation is used as the antithesis, there is no rigorous way to derive a synthesis.

In practice, when an antithesis is selected to suit the user's subjective purpose, the resulting "contradictions" are rhetorical, not logical, and the resulting synthesis is not rigorously defensible against a multitude of other possible syntheses.

The problem with the Fichtean "Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis" model is that it implies that contradictions or negations come from outside of things. Hegel's point is that they are inherent in and internal to things.

This conception of dialectics derives ultimately from Heraclitus.

Hegel has outlined that the purpose of dialectics is "to study things in their own being and movement and thus to demonstrate the finitude of the partial categories of understanding" One important dialectical principle for Hegel is the transition from quantity to quality, which he terms the Measure.

The measure is the qualitative quantum, the quantum is the existence of quantity.

"The identity between quantity and quality, which is found in Measure, is at first only implicit, and not yet explicitly realised.

In other words, these two categories, which unite in Measure, each claim an independent authority.

On the one hand, the quantitative features of existence may be altered, without affecting its quality.

On the other hand, this increase and diminution, immaterial though it be, has its limit, by exceeding which the quality suffers change. [...] But if the quantity present in measure exceeds a certain limit, the quality corresponding to it is also put in abeyance.

This however is not a negation of quality altogether, but only of this definite quality, the place of which is at once occupied by another.

This process of measure, which appears alternately as a mere change in quantity, and then as a sudden revulsion of quantity into quality, may be envisaged under the figure of a nodal (knotted) line".

As an example, Hegel mentions the states of aggregation of water: "Thus the temperature of water is, in the first place, a point of no consequence in respect of its liquidity: still with the increase or diminution of the temperature of the liquid water, there comes a point where this state of cohesion suffers a qualitative change, and the water is converted into steam or ice".

As other examples Hegel mentions the reaching of a point where a single additional grain makes a heap of wheat; or where the bald-tail is produced, if we continue plucking out single hairs.

Another important principle for Hegel is the negation of the negation, which he also terms Aufhebung (sublation): Something is only what it is in its relation to another, but by the negation of the negation this something incorporates the other into itself.

The dialectical movement involves two moments that negate each other, a somewhat and an another.

As a result of the negation of the negation, "something becomes an other; this other is itself somewhat; therefore it likewise becomes an other, and so on ad infinitum".

Something in its passage into other only joins with itself, it is self-related.

In becoming there are two moments: coming-to-be and ceasing-to-be: by sublation, i.e. negation of the negation, being passes over into nothing, it ceases to be, but something new shows up, is coming to be.

What is sublated (aufgehoben) on the one hand ceases to be and is put to an end, but on the other hand it is preserved and maintained.

In dialectics, a totality transform itself, it is self-related.

Oddly enough, I learned the Art of War, before I learned the Hegelian Dialectic.

Paranoia?

No for me it's not, but then again I've had many decades of study on this topic.

Apathy has set in my friend, even people on ATS are blind sheeple, and even ones I used to highly respect have becomce complacent, apathetic, and are bleating their complaints, instead of actually doing something about the change, they have become just another brick in the wall.

Pink Floyd : Another Brick in the Wall


While I respect you, and value your opinion, a trend towards paranoia is not what I see.

What I see are sheeple, scared, falling back into apathy, and ATS losing it's hard-hitting power.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Always a voice of reason Spartan, way to kill my thread .

Kidding.

But no I agree with you on some level, I really didn't mean the whole NWO thing specifically, but all conspiracy related conversation we have here on ATS over all.

I just see a lot of people making things which should be in all honesty good news which we can all look forward to as developments follow, into something negative that should be watched for the removal of our rights.

But thanks for the input, I agree with everyting you said in the post regarding Washington and the current state of affairs in the US government.

And we are loosing our hard hitting status because our boards become diluted with things that aren't of grand importance.

~Keeper

[edit on 11/24/2009 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


tothetenthpower, you know me, I have to chime in, add some heavy-hitting posts, and push back just enough to give you more reason to argue your point, thereby creating a cohesion of the divide and conquer and Hegelian Dialectic within each thread I post on.

I see this as a way to assist each person in stepping up their posting, and if we agree, disagree, or agree to disagree, at least we're having a civilized discussion, and maybe one sheeple has awaken.

In essence, think of me like Captain Jack Sparrow, running back and forth on that ship.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3:At the world's end upside down


Except, I'm rocking the ship that's already upside down, and trying to turn it right side up.

We all need to be singing the same song, they cannot hang us all, there's simply not enough rope.

Pirates of the Carribean 3 (Scene at the Gallows)


[edit on 24-11-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Question everything

Decide for yourself

make your own reality

See a trend?

Originally posted by Seiko
Question everything

Decide for yourself

make your own reality

See a trend?

But people aren't deciding for themselves anymore. It's good to question everything, don't get me wrong, but when you start to apply a negative to everything you talk about regardless of the circumstances or facts behind the story, you are doing yourself and ATS a diservice.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I can agree with you on the negative, but some people are just pessimists. I usually try to apply the fair witness standard myself. I attempt to look at good and bad, I don't always succeed.

The alarmists are the one that get me, always saying today is it, or tomorrow, this could be it guys....this weakens the study of real thought and just perpetuates fear and anxiety.

There are some real conspiracies in the world, whether by design or stark indifference i am still trying to decide, but they are there. If we could all take a more balanced approach we might be taken more seriously.

disclaimer, I'm not claiming to be balanced, I just try to be.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


in the past few years, people have really twisted the whole conspiracy theory angle of this site and the deny ignorance part to more of less take carte blanche to crap on about their latest harebrained paranoid fantasies. There are even people who have come out and said that becuase this is a conapiracy theory site, we shouldn't ever try to disprove anything.

horsesh*t I say! What ever happened to critical thinking? I'm sorry, but if you come up here and say Obama's nose flashes blue every 28.5 seconds, and that it's an indicator of HAARP activity, etc, I'm going to call BS on you.

Honestly, this place used to be much better until all this liberal hippy touchy feel crap infested this place. Only reason I'm still here is to make liberal's lives miserable, and for the occasional gem of an article that occasionally bobs to the surface of the mental effluvia that is this site.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


Well I agree there is a lack of critical thinking, but I doubt that the Liberal agenda is what made it that way.

I'm a liberal and mind you I have been schooled by conservatives, but they do not have all the answers. Neither do we for that matter.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I have to agree that the paranoia is at a very high level. I have been on this site for less than a year and I have read some pretty outrageous posts. I've posted some pretty weird things. Most of us regardless of our intentions fall prey to that paranoia, posting here. Still every once and a while someone brings up something that gets the old smart parts really turning. Some new fact, discovery or even a fresh look at a old issue. Between the ravings and the gold I just tighten my tin-foil hat and try to not be to much of a ass.[ some days are better than others]

I love these threads why is everyone so negative, why think bad things about the goverment, the NWO is a myth. Maybe we should talk about flowers all day while they strip what last freedoms I have away.

If you are upset that the topics do not make you happy why dont you buy a puppy or a kitten? We are living in historic times and no amount of this is negative or why cant we talk about happy things is going to make it stop. I have to wonder if they said the same things to the jews in the 30s in germany?

S+F, my friend!

Are we on the same wavelength or something? I was just thinking about this yesterday...the forum is overloaded with negativity. It has become a little overwhelming, and makes me hesitant to browse the recent topics at times.

Sometimes I fear that a lot of the information circulating on this forum is actually dangerous to certain individuals. Now, that's not to say that we should stop sharing things that could potentially disturb someone (but then, when has that stopped anyone before?! C'mon folks, this is the Internet! Ha). However, I do know that there will always be a percentage of people who walk away from this way more paranoid than they were prior to reading certain threads. Part of that is down to their own discretion; if they are so easily swayed, maybe they should take a look at themselves. But, honestly, if these types of paranoia-inducing posts are the majority of the information that we see on a day-to-day basis, then it is bound to have an effect on us. Some not as profound as others.

But then, everyone should deny ignorance, as always. Do so before you post a thread, while you're writing it, while you're reading others and while you post a reply. Apply logic, and follow your intuition. This comes in handy, trust me. I think it's a shame that people are living their lives in near constant fear because of some of the more dismal topics that can be found on the board. But I can't think of a better solution than using your 'filter' when you read anything.