Carbon tax goes down like the Hindenberg., page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times


reply posted on 23-11-2009 @ 11:30 PM by total newbie
reply to post by SpinifexPrincess



Sorry to hear that. Where I live, the whole idea has circled the bowl and is gone. The gurgling sound is fresh water coming up.

They didn't get the whole combination plate here. Just a few tacos on a paper plate (health care reform).

Take care.-------------------------------------------PC



reply posted on 24-11-2009 @ 04:39 AM by wycky
reply to post by SpinifexPrincess



I have been doing the same thing trying to tell people, email, blogging but what good is it going to do, it will get passed (this Friday i think) what chance do we have it looks like both parties are for it, we should start our own party, i already have the forms lol.
Looks like i'm going to have to get a 2nd job just to pay my electricity bill.


If you listen to 2GB all the announcers on the station are against it and speaking out about it and they get 100's of calls through out the day of people complaining about the ETS... but it still goes ahead. I guess it goes to show politicians are more about representing the corporations then the people like they should be.


reply posted on 24-11-2009 @ 05:21 AM by wycky
reply to post by SpinifexPrincess



Well looks like its full steam ahead
news.ninemsn.com.au...

Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull says the federal coalition has agreed to a deal on Labor's carbon pollution reduction scheme following a marathon meeting on Tuesday.


Even though 41 of the coalition were against and only 33 were for the ETS

"I'm the leader, I've made the call," he repeated.


Makes me sick.

Mr Turnbull is confident the legislation will pass the Senate, which he said was likely to sit extended hours this week to debate the bill.

"Some of the senators have said that regardless of what the party room decided they would cross the floor.

"But I am confident that enough senators will comply with the wishes of the shadow cabinet and party room, that the legislation will be passed."



reply posted on 24-11-2009 @ 05:05 PM by Dermo
Don't jump down my throat here please, i know this isn't a very popular pattern of thought here.

I agree with taxing non green products while offsetting the equivalent against green products.. which is in essence a form of carbon tax BUT widespread carbon taxing won't do our economies any favors in the short run.. especially if BRIC don't get on board which I think everyone knows.

But the thing is.. what is rarely ever mentioned is that if we are coerced into using less fossils through whatever means.. even forms of carbon taxes, it will help us dodge the bullet of peak oil and 3-4 times the oil prices in 30-40 years which will seriously damage our economies because of the continued explosion of the BRIC economies. But our governments prefer to use the global warming and environmentalism tactics to push the issue on BRIC countries without doing us THAT much damage against their advancements.. and surprise surprise.. China and India won't buy it... but that doesn't change the fact that we still need to cut down on our oil usage.. which we won't do while its cheap.

What all the conspiracy heads are completely forgetting here is that once peak oil hits.. and it will.. and at that stage the EU and US will be only equals as economies with China and India.. without being convinced to cut down on our "Carbon Emissions" ie Oil now when its relatively cheap, we would have a situation similar to what happened Spain and France in the 70/80's when oil prices tripled.. ie. their economies almost completely went down the pan. Spain had 25% unemployment as a direct result of it.

I know they keep lying to us about it through the whole "Global Warming", "Carbon is killing the world" nonsense but that in itself is a way to lie to the BRIC countries. Its still a conspiracy but we need to do it.. and it makes perfect sense.


reply posted on 25-11-2009 @ 06:57 AM by Dermo
Originally posted by wycky
Here is a list of countries who have already started operating under the ETS (Europe) and who is still developing their ETS.
www.climatechange.gov.au...

I don't see any of the BRIC nations listed
Goes to show its a pointless excersise


If BRIC don't join, it will hurt our economies a little more than theirs but it won't be completely pointless.. it will still push us much more towards greener energies while setting them up for the fall with peak oil.

Its still not the best idea overall though, it is more for Global governance than realism.

[edit on 25/11/09 by Dermo]


reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 05:00 AM by Neo_Serf
reply to post by Dermo



Dermo I see that you agree with the principal of the 'Big Lie', and I'm wondering your limits on that belief is. If the truth is secondary, what other lies would you have us believe for our own benefit?

I also see that you advocate a global tax and regulation of all activity, to save the planet. I wonder, what tithe do you demand for the 5 pounds of CO2 i emit through resperation per day? And if exceed my carbon limits?

Since we both admit AWG is a fraud, what limits would you place upon me based on this admitted fraud, for my own good?

please explain this to me quickly, running this comp and chewing gum simutaniously is chewing up my alloted carbon rations.



reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 01:35 PM by Dermo
Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to
post by Dermo



Dermo I see that you agree with the principal of the 'Big Lie', and I'm wondering your limits on that belief is. If the truth is secondary, what other lies would you have us believe for our own benefit?

I also see that you advocate a global tax and regulation of all activity, to save the planet. I wonder, what tithe do you demand for the 5 pounds of CO2 i emit through resperation per day? And if exceed my carbon limits?

Since we both admit AWG is a fraud, what limits would you place upon me based on this admitted fraud, for my own good?

please explain this to me quickly, running this comp and chewing gum simutaniously is chewing up my alloted carbon rations.




Firstly.. I don't agree with "Global Warming" but do agree with less pollution.

Secondly.. "The big lie" rarely if ever pushes my view of economic damage as a result of peak oil, simply because it cant.. so to say that I have bought 'The Big Lie' is wrong. What is "The Big Lie" to you?

Thirdly.. You seem to be assuming that I have not educated myself in as much regarding every aspect of global governance, global warming, authoritarianism, geopolitical strategies etc as much as possible and have come to realistic and somewhat "out there to conspiracy theorists" conclusions regarding many conspiracies that can actually serve mankind as a whole in a non detrimental fashion.

Finally.. sometimes groups of people are just too complacent, stupid or greedy to take action themselves and have to be pushed.

How would i promote carbon taxes? I would add carbon taxes to higher emission cars and lower overall taxes on lower emission cars.. very simple, it gets us off oil quicker while polluting less.. and I did give a generic example of this offsetting already...

That kind of system can be used in a myriad of ways... we have it on Road Tax and Vehicle Registration Tax in Ireland already.. its basically carbon usage penalties while giving you bonus's for buying the greenest technologies in order to cut "down your emissions"..cough cough.. cut down your oil usage.


So.. now you can answer a few questions for me.. Where did I mention carbon rations? Are you just trying to be smart? You're not pulling it off

I take it you don't think a push to get us off Oil before the peaking triple's the price and crashes our economies is a good idea.. why?



[edit on 26/11/09 by Dermo]
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