Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum

Originally posted by fbnks

Wromg. Catholic and Christian are VERY different things. People need to stop confusing the two. The Catholic church stands for very different things and they worship a different god. Not God. Ask any Catholic, they probably prayed to Mary - not Jesus Christ.

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all Abrahamic faiths. They all have a common denominator. Bash even one of these cornerstones and the whole of Babylon will unravel.

.....it's coming.

The Catholic Church doesn't owe anyone anything, not the D.C. government nor all the cry-babies who whine and moan about how -- heaven forfend -- unChristian they are.

God almighty, grow up and get a job!

Long after the USA and Canada are small footnotes in a textbook on failed states, the Catholic Church will be the institution still going strong after 3000 years. Anyone who thinks the opposite is smoking crack.

reply to post by Rockpuck

I'll only conceed that because they are a "private" organization they aren't required to help anyone. But, the very fact that they are willing to abandon these people and by extension the very principals that the Church was supposed to have been founded upon invalidates their claim to the term "Christian Church" or in the very least, makes them a Christian church in name only. Of course, this is true for many so called "Christian Churches." And before it's said that I have a vendetta against Christanity - I don't. Christanity used to be a beautiful religion. I have a vendetta against those Christians who feel the need legislate the way I live my life. It's no ones business who I marry but my own. One the up side, the fact that the Washington DC Archdiocese is willing to cut off all charitable functions if this proposition passes proves the fact that they are loosing power and are terrified by it.

The Catholic Church doesn't owe anyone anything, not the D.C. government nor all the cry-babies who whine and moan about how -- heaven forfend -- unChristian they are.

It's amazing to me how flippant you are when you say this. I can only assume that you're allegiance to the Catholic Church is due to the fact that you pay your tithe to it. Well, if you want to support "unChristian" churches - fine by me...but don't call yourself a Christian while you do it, sister. And secondly - I think you're dead wrong that the Catholic Church will be around for even 100 more years, much less 1000. *points to your crack pipe*

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
Long after the USA and Canada are small footnotes in a textbook on failed states, the Catholic Church will be the institution still going strong after 3000 years. Anyone who thinks the opposite is smoking crack.

Well, considering that the Catholic Church has been in decline ever since the Middle Ages, and knowing that a huge part of Catholics don't actually "believe in the Church", then it's not crazy to say that it won't be around for longer, or at least it won't be as big as it has always been. But I must leave you now because my crack is getting cold.

There is one aspect of this that bothers me tremendously. I ask the following in all seriousness:

Assume that I and a group of friends decide we wish to help the needy. We begin to disseminate aid to the homeless, man soup kitchens, take up donations, etc. Now assume that my friends and I are busy doing this charitable work, when the local city council passes a law that we do not feel is right, say, for instance, that we must stop praying at home if we wish to continue performing the charity services. Must we keep performing charity work under penalty of law at the expense of our own beliefs? If so, what conditions must we meet before we are to be forced to comply? Would anyone who ever did charity work be forced to continue? Or only someone who regularly did charity work? What amount of charity work is considered 'regular'? 1 man-hour per week? 40 man-hours per week? 500 man-hours per week? Does it matter who we are praying to (notice I never mentioned who)? Is that fair to single out those who pray to one entity and not those who pray to any entity? Does it include groups only, excluding individuals? What constitutes a group then? Knowing each other from individual charity work? Having a regular meeting place?

I really want to know, because it may make a difference the next time I decide to perform charity work. I never considered charity as a continuing legal commitment before, but some of the responses seem to indicate there are those who believe it should be such.

So exactly how do we determine who must continually perform charity and who is not required to do so?

And my last question: how can it be considered charity if one is forced to give? Is that not taxation?

TheRedneck

reply to post by WickedStar


I won't disagree.

In fact mostly I would agree.

They are, as we both conclude, a private organization. However, the people abandoned the Church long before the Church abandoned the people.

The Church can hardly pay it's own bills, while their donations shrink every year, the people have the nerve to get upset when the Church doesn't function as a Church should, all the while I would doubt they donate at all to said church.

I've never seen a single Christian Church act purely Christian.

I've met very, very few "good" Christians for that matter...

reply to post by TheRedneck


Very good post, excellent questions.. seeing some responses demand for instance DC revoke the Church's Religious standing because they are threatening to halt charitable activities is in all seriousness, extremely alarming..

Charity is after all supposed to be voluntary and without gain..

Sounds like a ruse to me I'm sure the Catholic church works well with the government,now people will see,why our government will take care of us sounds like a march into socialism,when the church dumps us now the government will be our messiah,the Catholic church and NWO are all one in the same,both have altrior motives,neither are good

I am Catholic but I am human first.

Jeez just live and let live, what did they ever do wrong? So what if same sex marriage is allowed? Why do I need to care about it? As far as I know marriage is supposed to be a personal decision.

As long as you are not breaking any laws like marrying before the age of consent or a lot at the same time, then what's wrong with it? If the church does not want it then don't marry them, that is your prerogative. But there is a separation of church and state.

This isn't a question of morality, so no I do not see why the church should overstep its bounds.

These guys need to grow up. First the asinine Inquisition and then this?Such a shame..

The punch line here, is the church would rather let people suffer by not helping if it doesn't get it's way. Talk about moral authority huh..

They kinda remind me of Cartman shouting "my authoratha!"

Giving a warning.. bah... quiet you..

Shame shame shame...

They make threats against the poor at the same time they are having a big meeting on aliens

The bones of some dead guy in a glass tomb laid up in a church that these same poor people line up to worship seems to hold more value.

You guys want to do something about the national debt? Make that company call the "church" pay some damn taxes. That would take care of heath care and the debt all in one stroke



[edit on 14-11-2009 by Tricky63]

Originally posted by Uesugi Kenshin8

The punch line here, is the church would rather let people suffer by not helping if it doesn't get it's way. Talk about moral authority huh..

They kinda remind me of Cartman shouting "my authoratha!"

Giving a warning.. bah... quiet you..

Shame shame shame...

Thank you Kenshin - you've made my point exactly.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
The Catholic Church doesn't owe anyone anything, not the D.C. government nor all the cry-babies who whine and moan about how -- heaven forfend -- unChristian they are.

God almighty, grow up and get a job!

Long after the USA and Canada are small footnotes in a textbook on failed states, the Catholic Church will be the institution still going strong after 3000 years. Anyone who thinks the opposite is smoking crack.

Thats cool
When the crap hits the fan whos stuff do you think the rest of us gonna gank? I mean gank real gangster style

I got first dibs on that funky hat the pope wears on day of the goddess ester...I mean easter

Your reptilian robe wearing pointy hat having masters dont scare me none.I gots my tin foil hat on so i cant hear em anyway.
You wont catch me praying to the little statue/idol of some saint of the animals or saint of the lost pennies.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Tricky63]

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Tricky63]

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Tricky63]

Our Government has NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to tell a church what to do. EVER. On page two it says how they rejected the amendment allownig the church to decline service for same-sex weddings. Had they left it the church being able to decline service that would be one thing. BUT THIS is unacceptable.

The archdiocese's statement follows a vote Tuesday by the council's Committee on Public Safety and the Judiciary to reject an amendment that would have allowed individuals, based on their religious beliefs, to decline to provide services for same-sex weddings.

Surely our countries forefathers did not leave such a big loop hole in the 'Freedom of Religion' amendment to allow the government to dictate church law.


If they continue this trend, it wont be long before they harp on other faiths for discrimination agianst pig farmers, and insist they serve ham at their functions.


The next part that bothered me....

"If they find living under our laws so oppressive that they can no longer take city resources, the city will have to find an alternative partner to step in to fill the shoes,"

I wonder if they already have someone in mind.
Chess anyone??


Just a point I want to clear up for myself....I have no problem personally with same sex mariage. It is a screwed up world we live in. If you can find that one person who completes you whom you can trust, and who wants to be there for you as long as you both shal live....ROCK ON. In my world, that is called a blessing.

I also believe that no one (especially the government) has the right to empose their beliefs on anyone else.

I think that the Catholic church has done a wonderful job bending over backwards for those in need of help. I have only seen one other church extend its hand to help others who are from a different faith. However it was not free. It came with a whole lot of preaching, and demands to attend their church, and be saved.

I would voice some other opinions, but I believe Rockpuck already covered it quite well.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by mrsdudara]

reply to post by mrsdudara


I support gay marriage because marriage is first and foremost a LEGAL contract..

However, I do NOT believe that the Government has the right to demand any religious institution preform a RELIGIOUS ceremony if they do not wish to.. They can get married by a pastor, justice of the peace, etc, etc, etc .. but you cannot demand full religious sacraments just because you feel entitled to them or because the Government tries to force them... this crosses a line that transcends just Catholicism, I imagine almost every Church has a problem with this..

This is a gross abuse of political power, and I believe that in the end most Churches will unite together and take this to the Supreme Court if need be - and will probably win.

reply to post by Tricky63
“And Jesus answering said unto them , they that are in health have no need of a physician; but they that are sick. I am not come to call the righteous , but sinners to REPENTANCE” (Luke 5:31-32).

Hope that answers your question.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Exactly!!! I agree 100% Now for the big question. Is it legal for the government to do this???

One of the things that many posters are failing to see, in their attempt to bash the Catholic Church, is that the government is attempting to tell a church what they must do, and what they must believe. Catholics, and many other Christians believe that homosexual behavior is immoral. People may disagree, but if you allow governments to tell churches what they must do, or believe, then you are supporting the elimination of separation of church and state. Once a government can tell any religion to do something that violates their beliefs, you head down that slippery slope. Furthermore, the church gets it's money from parishioner donations, and those people decide what to do with their money. Each parish has a parish council consisting of only lay people. They make decisions regarding the use of funds.
It is very interesting that some of the posters on this thread are the first to protest the government's intervention into business, health care, and almost every aspect of their lives, but they see no problem here with government pressure on a church. This time it is the Catholic Church. Next time it may be someone else.

Before the bashers continue, perhaps they should see this FACT:

Catholic Charities USA gets high marks for nationwide service ALEXANDRIA, Va. (CNS)—Catholic Charities USA is the country’s top provider of social services, according to Charity Navigator’s Holiday Giving Guide 2008.

www.archden.org...

You want the Catholic Church to go away?
Guess who will be forced to pick up the tab?
You- the TAXPAYER.
Continue your hatred of the Catholic Church. Don't be upset when you are then forced to pay more taxes for social services that are now provided by that Church.

Good riddance catholic church. Guess what, you aren't giving anything to the homeless. People give you their hard earned money, and you give a tiny portion to these social needs. Well hopefully the "christians" will cut out the middle man and allow your church to crumble even faster than it will anyway, and give their money directly to those in need instead.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Ziltoid_the_Omniscient]

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
You want the Catholic Church to go away?
Guess who will be forced to pick up the tab?
You- the TAXPAYER.
Continue your hatred of the Catholic Church. Don't be upset when you are then forced to pay more taxes for social services that are now provided by that Church.

Are you telling me the catholics are soooo stupid that they are not capable of donating THEIR money where THEY see fit, they are sooo stupid that only the all knowing catholic church, with a direct line to god, is the only way to collect the money and dish it out appropriately and of course give their kick backs all the way up the ladder back to vatican city.

You sure dont think very highly of the people sitting in the pews every week.