Everyone by now, knows about whats happening in Ukraine...

With these 'hemorrhagic' outbreaks... could it be, our worst fears? Smallpox?

If you are not aware of smallpox - go to your local library and look for the book "The Demon in the Freezer".

here is a small definition of smallpox:
(from en.wikipedia.org...)
Hemorrhagic smallpox is a severe form of smallpox that is accompanied by extensive bleeding into the skin, mucous membranes, and gastrointestinal tract. This form developed in perhaps 2% of infections and occurred mostly in adults. In hemorrhagic smallpox the skin does not blister, but remains smooth. Instead, bleeding occurs under the skin, making the skin look charred and black, hence this form of the disease is also known as black pox.

I will state what I know, and when asked for sources, I will try and find them, most of my information comes from the book "The Demon in the Freezer". It is an account of the WHO's attempt to eliminate smallpox from the human population.

Smallpox has riddled humanity since its beginning; and it was one of the most fatal and deadliest diseases known - the Hindus had an entire god dedicated to smallpox. It was around 1970 when smallpox was eradicated - it was a long road though, as far as eradicating it was concerned... and not much read about nowadays. I mean, we always hear about people who will one day 'cure the common cold' but what use is that? Few people die from the common cold, once diagnosed. One in three people who are diagnosed with small pox - die as a result.

In the 1970's while this eradication was occurring - the USA and USSR were deeply involved in a "Cold War" and the WHO was obligated to give 'hot' smallpox samples (that is to say - infectious samples) to both nations. Both the USA AND modern day Russia STILL (probably) HAVE SMALLPOX SAMPLES AVAILABLE TO USE!

This is biological warfare at it's worst! This is NOTHING like anthrax if it were to be unleashed upon a population. Anthrax is not infectious - so it would only affect the target area - however as soon as smallpox is let loose upon any population - since smallpox is not easy to diagnose within the first week or two, any travelling that people do while infectious could lead to a GLOBAL OUTBREAK of this very dangerous and deadly disease.

So, now the question remains: What have these two nations done with their samples of smallpox (if anything), what have they learned, and WHY do they still have it!

your thoughts; greatly appreciated.

Hello!

Very interesting information here... thank you!

However, i'm not sure everyone knows the severity of what's happening in Ukraine because everyone is talking about other nonsense on the news.

Concerning the small pox, it is very scary indeed, but what gives me the creeps is that someone, a human, would be responsible to put it in society again... But, don't forget that there are other nasty stuff out there that still represent a big danger to society, like malaria, extreme hunger, undrinkable water, cancer etc..
This is a never ending cycle but I beleive we should leave this to mother earth to know when the cycle should begin and end.

Also, we are not sure that Ukraine is suffering from the small pox.... it's seems to be something like an hemoragic pneumonia, or something like TB.

Let's hope this ends soon... still waiting for the enlightment era...

peace-

reply to post by Niinnai


Thanks. I'm not too 'in the know' about what's REALLY going on in the Ukraine, as I live very far from there... and all the information on this website seems less accurate than I like my info. So this is indeed, pure speculation. The hemorrhagic pneumonia does seem to put quite a thorn in the side of my preposterous theory, but Genetic Modification could always play a role? Lots of technical advancements have been made in the pharmaceutical industry since the 70's, and if it is true that these two Super Nations still have live samples of smallpox - there is no telling how much research and WHAT kind of research they have done. Surely never will be open for public viewing, this information, they don't even want anyone to know that they have it in the first place.

But, of course, you are probably right -- I don't mean to startle you! Stress can kill far more than any swine flu can, so take it easy. It's just speculation, and I certainly don't mind being wrong!

Forgive my ignorance...but a few questions-

When did smallpox vaccinations end (if they have ended)?

How long would a vaccination be good for, life?

Would it cover the "black" strain?

Originally posted by Signals
Forgive my ignorance...but a few questions-

When did smallpox vaccinations end (if they have ended)?

How long would a vaccination be good for, life?

Would it cover the "black" strain?

Don't sweat it. Actually - very good questions you brought up. In the wikipedia article ( I will do more research, don't worry ) it says

"Given these risks, as smallpox became effectively eradicated and the number of naturally-occurring cases fell below the number of vaccine-induced illnesses and deaths, routine childhood vaccination was discontinued in the United States in 1972. Routine vaccination of healthcare workers was discontinued in 1976, and among military recruits in 1990. Military members deploying to the Middle East and Korea still receive the vaccination.[32] It is now primarily recommended for laboratory workers at risk for occupational exposure.[15] Mass smallpox vaccination was abandoned in most European countries in the early 1970s as well"

so I'd say vaccinations really ended in 1976 - but were ceased altogether by 1990. Not sure if they apply to all strains of smallpox (though, it might be the case that smallpox is just one strain itself that has different effects of different people? Not sure) but most likely it did also affect for the 'black plague'.

I'm not sure on the duration of the vaccination either - could be for life - but more likely than not it is only a 5 year guarantee. Good questions - definitely good questions for me to research further.

Great informative post. I've been kind of in the dark on the whole Ukraine thing as well. It is really concerning that these governments feel the need to hold on to Small Pox samples.

I guess I can, in a way, imagine why they would want to keep samples of something they "wiped out" just in case there are other needs for it. The problem is, I can only see a harmful need for it. Although I could be wrong seeing as how I'm not a scientist, heh.

reply to post by LandonHell


Really. It was especially worse during those times - because the WHO did not want to give all the samples to just the USA or else Russia would feel that they would be attacked by smallpox - so the WHO had to give exactly half the samples to the USA (which would then probably distribute it across) and exactly half to the USSR.

Now, I don't mean to say I hate communists - in fact, I like their ideals a lot more than capitalists - but this isn't what this is about at all - but when WHO surveyors/scientists would go into the USSR where the small pox samples were being held (after, a while, I believe they were ordered to destroy all hot samples of smallpox, but were allowed to keep benign samples for further research or something... not sure) they did not have them - they had 'lost' them (I remember they had a really clever excuse as to why not - again could be legit as the USSR was not the most organized bunch) - and so were suspected (in the book, at least) of trying to manufacture biological weapons of mass destruction... but although the USA won't admit to it - I'm sure this news ratified them enough to keep their own 'secret' sample of the virus 'just in case' something were to happen.

Now recently this 'hemmorhagic pneumonia' is starting to sound really suspicious. ANY virus which causes hemmorhaging is very suspect because that is incredibly fatal - and for little to no coverage on the incident in world-wide news (i'm sure it's all the talk, locally, though!) seems even more suspect; if you take into consideration media involvement with government. I know it doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy, there's a lot of loose ends, not everything fits together perfectly - but I think even if this topic does nothing but spread a little bit of awareness on smallpox I'll be happy

It is extremely unlikely that there is smallpox in the Ukraine. I base this on the fact that most reports describe blood in the lungs only, not necessarily appearing in other locations - smallpox has other easily identifiable symptoms. Additionally, smallpox is hemorrhagic only in a small number of cases - but all most reported deaths seem to have occurred from this bleeding of the lungs. So its unlikely.

It is also unlikely that it is purely hemorrhagic pneumonia, because that is a bacterial infection - and should be curable with antibiotics, however at least 6 doctors have died, along with many hospitalized patients - and they would have been given strong antibiotics - so its unlikely it is a bacterial disease.

Please note when I am referring to hemorrhagic pneumonia I am referring to purely the bacterial infectious kind. The term hemorrhagic pneumonia, can be also be used as a wide descriptor for other illnesses, but specifically - it is bacterial.

The most likely explanation is that it is a mutated flu with an avian component - a description to which H1N1 conforms. So it could be vanilla H1N1 - or a mutation of it, or another avian flu virus. This is the most likely explanation.

The reason I cite the avian component is due to the proclivity for avian strains to produce a cytokine storm reaction - which is your immune system fighting you - and it also operates at a temperature most closely matched in human lungs.

H1N1 does have an avian component, so it is implicated. It is possible there are many reasons for the rapid acceleration of the death rate in Ukraine - one reason could simply be reporting was non functional for a period of time, because the flu center for all of the Ukraine had only one staff member. So when they got more people - they updated on the number of deaths quickly, so it appeared they occurred over a short time frame.

Another reason is that due to the location being near the Chernobyl incident, people in that area have had their immune systems damaged by the background radiation - and are more susceptible.

My initially preferred reason was that a new, more deadly strain had mutated into being just a week or two before the death rate started to rapidly increase.

Any or all of these reasons could be valid - or it could be some alternative explanation.

It does seem that some non viral hemorrhagic pneumonia was implicated in some early deaths in the Ukraine - but that may have simply been a case of failure to identify the real cause. Some initial reports indicated it was bacterial - it is unknown if those were isolated cases, or part of the larger pandemic.

I hope this helps answer some speculation on the matter. There is a large body of information available - if you want to know - then researching is often better than waiting for someone to distill it for you.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon


Wow. Thanks for the very informative post. Also, thank you even more for debunking this (rather ridiculous now that I look back on it) speculation! I almost scared myself... if we had more smallpox I don't know what we'd do...

reply to post by Signals


Maybe you have seen the round scar on your parents upper arms? These are from the vaccinations.
Over here they ended around 1970.


On a side note,
Let's not forget that in 2002, Bush ordered new vaccinations in the military, and especially for those who went to the Gulf and Iran (about 10 mil if I recall?) because he feared a bio attack with small pox, since then everyone in the US can ask to be vacinated. (pls correct me if I'm wrong)
Here in Europe you have to go through a whole precedure, it seems there are known high risks in this vaccination.