Will Venus be the next Earth?

reply to post by Devino

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Scientists don't just study their whole lives to not learn anything first of all. Spoon fed and scientifically sound are two totally different things.

First some perspective. Here is a massive photo of Venus, just to give you the idea of what we are talking about here.



Here's a smaller one if that one hurt your eyes.



We know the Venusian atmosphere contains high concentrations of CO2 and droplets of Sulfuric acid. We know this, it isn't that hard to figure out the composition of a planet's atmosphere.



Why is the CO2 there? That's easy! Its a heavy gas. Volcanoes release massive quantities. No volcanoes on Venus? Ummm, we can see them! Where gravity is applied CO2 will sink, the more of it we have in the atmosphere, the more weight it will put on the surface. Matter is attracted to matter, especially a big ball of it (It's known as gravity.). Venus has an extremely dense atmosphere. There is a lot of CO2 in it.

Watch the Experiment at :30

YouTube Link

As a heavy gas CO2 stays closer to the surface, but if you get enough on it it will start to gain density. The higher density per volume and you create a super high pressure gaseous atmosphere.



Believe it or not water vapor, not carbon dioxide, is the primary greenhouse gas on earth. CO2 is not extremely heavily concentrated. On Venus it is not only heavily concentrated, but freaking heavy!

CO2 is a perfect example of a greenhouse gas. It is a heavy absorber of heat.

Lets watch a video about the Venus CO2 buildup.

YouTube Link

[edit on 4-11-2009 by DaMod]

reply to post by TheRedneck

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I agree with you and I understood the point of your post, it is as though scientifically we are making good time, but we are going in the wrong direction. Some of the material from 30 years ago, 50 and even 100 years ago is more accurate than what is being promoted today. I mean Dark Matter, Magnetars, Loockback Time and now Dark Stars...what will they think up next?

Personally I believe that to have a firm understanding of anything would make communication of it easy and vice versa. So for cosmologists who say the Universe is too complicated for us to understand are communicating to us that they themselves believe the universe cannot be understood because it is too complicated. By far the easiest material to understand that I have read on relativity was written by Einstein himself. Whatever happened to those three magic words that we all used when we were children, "I don't know"? Perhaps the answer is in the question.

As for "Worlds in Collision" I find that it was ahead of its time and there is still much to learn from Velikovsky's work. I find it amazing how many different sources he refers to and how he put it all together is beyond me. I had a difficult time simply reading it in regards to the sources that he linked to his material let alone conceiving of undertaking such a feat. His work alone has inspired my interests in ancient history and myths.

[edit on 11/4/2009 by Devino]

reply to post by DaMod

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I don't know if your post is intended to inspire or insult me but I find your mannerism very boring. I have looked at more images of Venus then I can remember and I know what gravity is.

As far as chemistry goes did you know that Oxygen (that would be O) is heavier that Carbon (C), look it up- here is a Chart.
Notice the atomic weight of Carbon is 6 and Oxygen is 8, hmmm. The reason CO2 is heavier than O is because it is a molecular structure containing two Oxygen atoms and a Carbon.
Sulfuric acid, is this heavier than Oxygen? Well lets take a look, H2SO4- appears so. but this does not address my point in the least.
Does CO2 absorb heat? Of coarse it does. Do you know how atoms adsorb and hold heat? I'll give you a hint, think 'quantum leaps'.


CO2 does not exist because it is heavy, either I missed your point here or you don't have one.


Who ever said that there were no volcanoes on Venus? I think you left out the world "activity".
Did you know that there is no proof of current volcanic activity on Venus? If you have some proof that disagrees with this then I would be very interested in reading about it, please link whatever you have.
And no more Bill Nye... please!

The entire surface of Venus (that we know of) looks new as though it was resurfaced at the same time. How did this happen?


This is a good point and something I also have thought about. What about water liquid, is that more dense than water vapor? So why aren't our oceans absorbing heat like Venus?
I don't think you read any of my links. You should, you might like them.


What does "a heavy absorber of heat" mean? Am I to take this to mean that heat has weight?
I have many questions about our closest neighbor and none of them are trivial, I would be very pleased if you could try and help find some of these answers. This would be far more productive than being antagonistic.

ADD: p.s. I like kitties.


[edit on 11/4/2009 by Devino]

well one thing you have to consider is this...

the necessity for an Earth - type planet to exist as ours does, relies COMPLETELY on the existence of an Earth-Moon type system.

check out this video series "If We Had No Moon" and the chaos that would ensue if our Moon left or was destroyed...

YouTube Link

what we live on isn't merely the Earth, its the Earth-Luna System.

The moon (luna) does not revolve around the Earth.
The moon and the Earth both revolve around a point that is the medium between both of their masses, this point is located about 1000 miles under the earth's surface, and the two masses revolve around this point like a lopsided hula hoop.

this point is called the Barycenter. (Center of Mass)
en.wikipedia.org...

see here -



so since we're talking about 'reorganizing' the planet's order/positions to best suit a new habitable area in our immediate viscinity, why not go a step further on the same note and 'give' Venus a moon?

To quote from an old thread where I posted the same information ..
www.abovetopsecret.com...



Now, going along your idea here, to say somehow we are able to reposition planets, somehow.. utilizing some magnificent method of electro-magnetism-gravitational manipulation, the idea I'm adding to the discussion, is to bring Mercury to mate with Venus in order to form a Venus-Mercury System, mimicking the Earth-Luna System.
What's interesting, whether intentionally by ancient wisdom, or pure coincidence, is that the Greek versions of the Roman names Venus and Mercury, are Aphrodite and Hermes, thus making the combination of the two, the mated result being a balance of masculine and feminine forces to form the Hermes-Aphrodite system or Hermaphrodite System.

as you can see here - the relative sizes of the moon and mercury, earth and Venus show us that this type of hypothetical pairing would be feasible.

As the astrological symbols used to represent the planets are Alchemical in origin, the idea of a Hermaphroditic existence is held as an ancient Alchemical, Gnostic, Hermetic Goal
images.google.com...

whether symbolical in the new Earth (Hermaphrodite) or the end-goal physiological vessel (new body).. meaning a gender-neutral body/spirit/mind that humanity would eventually evolve into, ending the psychological suffering of the constant desire for sex, because when inhabiting Hermaphroditic bodies, the idea is that when one person in habits a body of gender neutrality, the physiological and psychological aspects of the individual's both feminine and masculine sides are able to be expressed at the most efficient and fullest level, bringing a new level of human interaction and intimacy.

Needless to say, this is not a popular concept, and would be in general reviled and or mocked, no need to boast about how comfortable you already are, being a man or woman, this discussion is about Venus becoming habitable..

As uncommonly held or understood the premise I just brought up is, I can bet you that the Masonicaly Led Military of the world's top nations are or have already discovered scientific method of metamorphosing humans into this next level of human body... on a new earth..
In some ways some could make this concept analogous to Heaven, as in a Heaven that is built.
Are men eternally men? Are women eternally women? are either unable to envision exploring and experiencing the full spectrum of their psychology in the means of becoming a complete spiritual being?
Some think that breaking the barrier of sex identity is crucial in order for full spiritual liberty.

Symbolism and Masonic Great Dream aside,

the Hermaphroditic System (Hermes-Aphrodite or Venus-Mercury system) would be necessary in order to balance Venus's atmospheric, tidal and climatological conditions.
Let alone the psychological balancing act that the interaction of the two would create for the beings living there.
It's well known that our Moon Luna has a drastic effect on our minds as it does on the Earth's tides of the water bodies here.
Seeing as our bodies are 78% water, the movements of Mercury around Venus, like the movements of our moon around us now, would be required to sustain the psychology and biology that we'd experience here.

NOTE that the positions of venus and mercury are aligned with saturn and the sun during the winter solstice of Dec 21 2012 as illustrated in a crop circle..www.abovetopsecret.com...

could venus/mercury / hermaphrodite be our "New Earth" that manifests on that day?

star and flaggage OP!

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[edit on 4-11-2009 by prevenge]

Ok all, I'm really sorry for not posting a reply last night but I didn't feel well and when I checked to see if anyone messaged me I found the first reply to me was a nasty and noncontributing post from someone who posted previously the same nasty and non productive post. Please only post if you have something to contribute.

When I said I have studied and researched for 17 years I didn't mean that I picked Venus and that is all I studied. I have researched and studied many different sciences. I am not nor have I ever claimed to know it all, This is why I am posting my questions that I have here and there on ATS. I am hoping together we can make us all a bit smarter in the end.

Ok now, those who are interested in this topic I was asking the opinion of others on wether or not Venus could become habitable over the millions of years it is going to take for Venus to get into the Goldilocks Zone? Providing of course that nothing blows it up or something come around and messes up our solar system.

Ok now with all of that off my chest I will try to respond to the posters who wish to help further our knowledge here on ATS tomorrow night. I have closed at work tonight and I have to open very very early. So good night ATS... have a fun night

reply to post by Stari

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Well I'm not sure if Venus could become habitable over millions of years by waiting to see if it gets into the Goldilocks Zone or not, but by then we should have the technology to terraform the place and make it habitable.

As I said earlier, I believe its already in the so called Goldilocks Zone. So we just need to figure out how to deal with the crushing toxic atmosphere along with some other things like the seemingly lack of an asthenosphere as mentioned by 'cowboys703'.
Then there's the lack of a magnetosphere, necessary if we want to prevent deadly cosmic rays from hitting the surface.

These are just some of the problems that needs to be overcome, but in time we could rise to the challenge and create a new world for our selves.

reply to post by prevenge

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That is a very good point and also one that shows how long it takes for what is considered alternative theories to be taken seriously. There has been a lot of opposition over the impact theory for the creation of the Moon for 40+ years now.

Personally I think that this did happen and that the proof has been staring right at us. The Moon is in a tidal lock with Earth (one side always faces Earth) and this is basic conservation of angular motion. Angular motion from Earth's rotation will be conserved in the Moon even after an impact that will observe the same center as it originally had done. Meaning one side will face the center of the Earth and it will rotate in the same direction just like that mass did before it was hit.

By the way, your Wiki Applet of the Earth's barycenter shows the Moon orbiting backwards. Or maybe that is a view from "Down Under".

The Moon certainly helps stabilize Earth's angular velocity and rotational precession. So with this idea Venus might need a moon, maybe Mercury, to help stabilize it for habitation. I think Venus would also need to rotate in a prograde motion as well.


You and me both (I call it Cosmolotism), at first I wouldn't say too much because I thought I might be wrong but it has become ridiculous. I'll have to read your link when I get more time, thank you.


You know, I kind of got that impression from one of your posts and I was hoping you would come back. There are a lot of people that just don't know any better, it's the way we all were taught, and there probably are a few that dis-inform and antagonize intentionally for whatever reason. The former I would say just show them some facts and your theory and try to inspire some intelligent thought. As for the later I say screw 'em, don't even respond. We have much more important and constructive ways to spend our precious time then arguing with idiots.


[edit on 11/5/2009 by Devino]

reply to post by Devino

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Sorry, I have a nasty habit of writing posts and then going back through and changing things, and sometimes I forget to remove a sentence or change the wording so it makes sense.

When I said heavy absorber of heat I wasn't talking about weight I was talking about qualities.

I wasn't implying that CO2 exists on Venus because it is heavy, I was simply stating that once released it would stay there because it is heavy. I guess I misread the post I replied to, because it seems like you asked the question of (not verbatim) why doesn't the CO2 leave the planet Venus? So a volcanic eruption from some time ago would still release a large quantity of semi-permanent gasses into the atmosphere. I say semi-permanent because I am sure there are chemical reactions taking place.

You're right there is no recorded active volcanic activity on Venus, but that could be changed with a nice little rover. Too bad it probably wouldn't last very long.

I posted Bill Nye just to be an @#* hole, but to that video's defense the CO2 and the bag trick is a fun one.

I was going to post an excerpt from cosmos but I couldn't find it.

You know, there was a good question in your reply. If water vapor is such a great heat absorber then why don't the oceans heat up. I think it has a lot to do with the heat conduction inside the water. The daylight (warmer) side probably transfers heat to the nighttime (colder) side which regulates overall temperature, but that is just a guess.

A good example would be a hot humid day. It feels hotter than it is because of the water vapor in the air.

reply to post by DaMod

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Thank you for your reply, I know that it is difficult to look at things "outside the box" from how we were taught and the "greenhouse effect" is a good example. This is something that I have had trouble with myself, what we were taught seems very reasonable until we take a closer look and then it all falls apart.

The question is why is there so much Carbon in the atmosphere of Venus and could Earth ever be like that? I would think that there is enough material on or in the Earth (carbon) for a Venus like atmosphere to happen here so then the answer to the first part of that question is,"we don't know."
You got me to think about the chemical makeup of Venus' atmosphere; CO2 and H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid), that is a lot of Oxygen and Hydrogen. This could be the remnants of or can later become water. As for the carbon and Sulfur;
Wiki-Sulfur
This is very significant from a biblical and mythological point of view and to the question if Venus was ever a comet.


I used to consider Venus a very boring planet astronomically until I started doing my own research. From what we know about Venus, the resonating motions with Earth and all of the ancient myths related to this planet I now consider it the most interesting by far. Even more interesting than Jupiter because of the orbital relations this planet has with Earth, Mercury and Mars.
Let me further point out that many ancient cultures around the world knew about these interactions, especially the Maya, and recorded them within their massive architectural structures, language and imbued them deep in their cultures. Venus is trying to tell us something big.

Here is a list of all of NASA's missions to Venus

After reading through everything you all have offered up on the table I must say I guess I didn't figure on other things happening in the Solar System that could possibly change the fate of Venus in a few million years (the time it takes to get into the Goldilocks Zone).

It is going to take me a month of Sundays to read through all of this info you guys have givin me, I will definately go over it all and if I feel the need to add more I will. Thank you all!!!

Stari

reply to post by Stari

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This must be looked into because the universe is expanding and the fact that green house gases helped form Earth with the help of other objects in space such as Tiamot.

According to sumarian text, I believe, that when Tiamot comes back around, during its orbit every 3,600 yrs. Venus will get blassed just like Earth did, to form its own moon. Could this be an event that will occur on 2012 to start preparing venus to be the next Earth Just like Mars was the last Earth...and so forth. We are a long way away from the death of the sun and this solar systems watch so to speek will progress past 12 again and repeat this cycle until the sun dies or we join an even larger galaxy.

I believe you are on to something Stari...I have thought this my self, in Earth Science class and reading about the Sumarian's and other anchient civilizations in World Civ...LOL

The strange thing is that we will be populating Venus and helping those poor peps out until Earth dies. Earthlins will be the next Gods to the peps on Venus...This will be the next syfy movie, watch and see. i can't stand my self...LoL