Citigroup (Citibank) Might Implode; Citi is in big trouble.

Now this: found in Bloomberg coverage on Capmark bankrupcy breaking news coverage:Bloomberg

"According to today’s court documents, $7.1 billion is owed by the company and its units to the 30 largest creditors without collateral backing their claims.

The three biggest are Citibank N.A., as administrative agent under the $5.5 billion credit agreement, with a claim of $4.6 billion; Deutsche Bank Trust Company Americas, as trustee for the 5.875 percent senior notes and the floating senior notes due 2010, with claims of $1.2 billion and $637.5 million, respectively; and Wilmington Trust FSB, as successor trustee for the 6.3 percent senior notes due 2017, with a claim of $500 million, according to court papers. "

Oh Dear...

[edit on 25-10-2009 by curioustype]

[edit on 25-10-2009 by curioustype]

FYI the Citi card thing with the gas stations started earlier last week.

one big bank down... how many to go?

B of A has 10% defaults, cu off your credit lines people they will be toast!

Next is TD, and Duetche bank, then JP morgan!

Goldman will be extremely hard to take down. They have so much talent its pathetic. everyone there is super smart, well paid, very driven, and make amazing picks ( I have two extremely smart friends up there).

Not bad guys! Keep the war up. remember. Credit unions are your friend!

reply to post by venividivici


I think the problem, generally, is that no one is doing enough research. And if they are, they certainly aren't presenting all the facts. It seems to me that the media has spent more time pushing this false idea of a recovery while we sit here digging up more and more credible reasons to not believe what they say. So long as this is the case, and the MSM refuses to report anything negative, then we must settle for independent research, even research from those on ATS.

Some news relating to this thread.

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Commercial real estate company Capmark Financial filed for bankruptcy protection Sunday, weighed on by declines in the sector and a heavy debt load related to its leveraged buyout.

It had said that it was negotiating with lenders, bondholders and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Its creditors include banks Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) and JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500).

money.cnn.com...

Now, who files for bankruptcy on Sunday. I think SHTF.

reply to post by Tentickles


Tenti, aren't you quoting two different things? Capital One is raising the interest rate to 29.99% and Citi is calling in (closing) the gas branded cards.

The way your post reads it runs together doesn't it?

I cut myself loose from these clowns at citi earlier this year...despite an excellent rating and track record, they began to start "losing" my credit card payment checks or claiming I had made them later than I actually did, etc., in order to nickle-and-dime me on late fees and hike my rates.

When you start treating long-term responsible customers like garbage just to squeeze out a few extra percentile points or pennies on a buck, you are killing the goose that lays golden eggs. Lot of that going round these days with other banks and cards, from what I hear.

What's going to happen when all the responsible, finacially-aware people have abandoned ship and all these banks are left with are the lugheads who are too stupid to read and understand the fine print? The most grotesque destruction of long-term vision in favor of a quick buck for the current quarter is underway seemingly across the financial world...ugly chickens will come home to roost on in the guano-spattered, lean-to henhouse quite soon.

reply to post by projectvxn




Apart from all the NWO and "scaremongering" threads we get here, I come here to see others opinions on the news. I like seeing other people thinking outside of the box. It leads to more honesty and greater understanding of what is really happening.

Example: last year, the talking heads were banging on about a recovery, things not being so bad, the bailout's sorting everything out...
On here, we were predicting rising crime, protests, Obama losing support within months, Calif going bankrupt, NY following, talk of a revolution...

And now, much of what we were suggesting through research, common sense and the exchange of ideas has happened or is happening.

We all become our own "trends forecasters" on this site when we get a good thread going.

I saw a story earlier today that a group of citizens in another country has filed a lawsuit against Citibank for Lehman Brothers type of finance schemes.

www.mysmartrend.com...

They are indeed in trouble.

Originally posted by silent thunder
I cut myself loose from these clowns at citi earlier this year...despite an excellent rating and track record, they began to start "losing" my credit card payment checks or claiming I had made them later than I actually did, etc., in order to nickle-and-dime me on late fees and hike my rates.

Lol they did the same thing to me, until I started adding delivery confirmation to my payments, then they stopped. I dropped them shortly after. Stupid move on their part.

Citi certainly left its mark in Argentina.

Documentary on the events that led to the economic collapse of Argentina in 2001 which wiped out the middle class and raised the level of poverty to 57.5%.

Central to the collapse was the implementation of neo-liberal policies which enabled the swindle of billions of dollars by foreign banks and corporations.

Many of Argentina's assets and resources were shamefully plundered. Its financial system was even used for money laundering by Citibank, Credit Suisse, and JP Morgan.

The net result was massive wealth transfers and the impoverishment of society which culminated in many deaths due to oppression and malnutrition.

If you want to stop the same thing from happening here, and it is happening here, right now, please join the revolution at the Kick Them All Out Projet www.KickThemAllOut.com...

Originally posted by Mainer

Originally posted by silent thunder
I cut myself loose from these clowns at citi earlier this year...despite an excellent rating and track record, they began to start "losing" my credit card payment checks or claiming I had made them later than I actually did, etc., in order to nickle-and-dime me on late fees and hike my rates.

Lol they did the same thing to me, until I started adding delivery confirmation to my payments, then they stopped. I dropped them shortly after. Stupid move on their part.

National city did the same to me and you see where they are now. Those bastards ruined my credit and had collectors hounding me for years until I won it in court.

I caught wind of this a few days ago. I found it extremely amusing that the new apr is 29.99 and the default rate is 29.99. Pay card on time? Ok, 29.99. Don't pay it? Fine, 29.99. There's no incentive to pay the card on time and every incentive to max it and default it, provided you could care less about the credit score. And before I get flamed, I came to the above conclusion from a business stand point and not a moral one (two different things, though moral hazard was breached when they can borrow from the fed at 0% and charge me up to 30% to borrow it back).

One possibility. They need cash and don't care how they get it. Also there is the possibilty of booking future interest payments as income today. I know it sounds weird, but it happens (look at the mortgage mess to see that one). One also has to think about the 800 billion in shadow assets these guys have (SIVs).

Another possibility is CITI is heavily vested by the US Gov. What if the gov wants an orderly unwind with the least amount of people to cover through a possibly insolvent FDIC? Drive away the customer base and unwind with the least amount of damage. I always thought the Bank O America was going to be the sacrificial lamb, but now thinking it could be CITI.

The treasury and fed still haven't figured out how to unwind cmo's and cds's. The are so inter-related, the term is counter-parties, in their transactions that its almost impossible to seperate them. The banks are raising interest rates to create cash so they can cover toxic assets. I can't think of a reason for Citi to close accounts, it doesn't make sense. Like what was posted earlier 12% minus 10% = 2% thats a ton of money. On top of that every buisness owner has to pay a transaction charge. Everytime you swipe a piece of plastic through a reader whatever companies name is on that card gets a cut of the total sale. Also, if credit card companies are doubling rates on "in good standing" accounts could that be fought in court under laws regarding usary?

A little off topic but there was a 60 mins story tonight about the $60BILLION fraud against medicare alone $100BILLION total.

www.cbsnews.com...

Between the banks and things like this not ot mention the fraud perpetrated by contractors in iraq.

The US is truly emulating Rome in its last days.

reply to post by jacksmoke


Reread that 12%-10% equals 2% from KD again. He implies that they've been lying about their cash positions and geez anything is possible with any of our zombie banks.

Oh the usury law. You know back in the day when Joey Two Times would charge you 15% interest it was considered loan sharking and the Feds would try to haul him away. I digress.

Each state has the own usury laws. Matter of fact some states don't have one and well think about which states these companies are based in. I can't remember the law, but the company abides by the usury law of the state that they are based in not the state that the consumer is based in.

Originally posted by VelmaLu

If you jack the interest rate up to 30%, those who are the most willing and able to pay interest will stop using your card. Those who remain are likely not good credit risks and your chance of earning any money is significantly reduced, even at the higher rates.

So why do it? Why do you drive off your best customers? .

SHORT TERM THINKING. People are often judged on a quarterly basis. The big dogs say, "Get results this quarter or you are fired!" So the the next rung down thinks, "Well, I'll just do this or that and we'll worry about the problems it creates next quarter. Besides, by then I might be at a different company anyway. My luck has held out this far so I'm sure it will hold out a little longer..."

Its the same kind of thinking that got America and much of the rest of the world into this mess to begin with. And its not only at companies...what percentage of people live month-to-month, without even one or two extra month's worth of savings? I don't know the answer off the top of my head, but I have seen stats on this before and I do know its a staggeringly large number.

The whole thing is just another manifestation of the instant-gratification culture, the "gotta have it now, we'll worry about the fallout later" way of thought. Its worked its poison way into the big banks and now this is the result.

It looks more and more likely that CITI is about to go under this sunday night Oct. 25th.

This is interesting:
www.merchanttalk.com...

CitiBank has just locked out millions of ATM cardholders from ATM withdrawals. While the company’s spokesperson has denied such claims, the fact is that cardmembers in major cities have been capped on their day to day withdrawals. Citi claims this was caused by a “recent” increase in ATM PIN based fraud.

I found this over on "Zero Hedge" in a sidebar and believe it to be important?


ransquawk.com...

"CIT (CIT) plans to address USD 3bln credit facility immediately and will likely to file for bankruptcy if no plan approved"

Dated Friday the 23rd.