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John Andrews letter to Ben Rich (Lockheed Martin Skunk Works)

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posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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John Andrews sent Ben Rich a letter dated July 10, 1986.


He wrote:

The topic is UFOs. I 'believe' there are lots of UFOs. I am also tending to 'believe' they are of two categories:
A. Man made UFOs.
B. Extraterrestrial UFOs.
I believe with certainty in man made UFOs. I am tending to believe there are also extraterrestrial UFOs. Having the highest respect for you and Kelly Johnson, I'd appreciate knowing if your belief covers category B as well as category A or the above? Purpose of question? Precision. Dr. Robert Sarbacker's response was without question a statement of his belief in category B. Do you also include category B, Ben?

Ben's reply:


Ben Rich's reply was succinct, and yet a tad enigmatic. "Yes, " he wrote back to Andrews on July 21, "I'm a believer in both categories. I feel everything is possible. Many of our man made UFOs are Un Funded Opportunities. In both categories, there are a lot of kooks and charlatans - be cautious. Best regards, Ben Rich."

ATS - what do you think Ben meant by Un Funded Opportunities? That man made UFOs were a result of studying recovered ET UFOs?


[edit on 26-9-2009 by ufo reality]




posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by ufo reality
Ben Rich's reply was succinct, and yet a tad enigmatic. "Yes, " he wrote back to Andrews on July 21, "I'm a believer in both categories. I feel everything is possible. Many of our man made UFOs are Un Funded Opportunities. In both categories, there are a lot of kooks and charlatans - be cautious. Best regards, Ben Rich."

ATS - what do you think Ben meant by Un Funded Opportunities? That man made UFOs were a result of studying recovered ET UFOs?


You might be right on that or partially right. My first thought about "unfunded opportunities" was that he meant off the books projects.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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Un Funded Opportunities : U F O


Maybe UFO means something completely different than we have been assuming..? Maybe it is how the Govt refers to its own research projects.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Unfunded opportunity = crashed UFO retrieval



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by ufo reality
John Andrews sent Ben Rich a letter dated July 10, 1986.


He wrote:

The topic is UFOs. I 'believe' there are lots of UFOs. I am also tending to 'believe' they are of two categories:
A. Man made UFOs.
B. Extraterrestrial UFOs.
I believe with certainty in man made UFOs. I am tending to believe there are also extraterrestrial UFOs. Having the highest respect for you and Kelly Johnson, I'd appreciate knowing if your belief covers category B as well as category A or the above? Purpose of question? Precision. Dr. Robert Sarbacker's response was without question a statement of his belief in category B. Do you also include category B, Ben?

Ben's reply:


Ben Rich's reply was succinct, and yet a tad enigmatic. "Yes, " he wrote back to Andrews on July 21, "I'm a believer in both categories. I feel everything is possible. Many of our man made UFOs are Un Funded Opportunities. In both categories, there are a lot of kooks and charlatans - be cautious. Best regards, Ben Rich."

ATS - what do you think Ben meant by Un Funded Opportunities? That man made UFOs were a result of studying recovered ET UFOs?


[edit on 26-9-2009 by ufo reality]


ATS here: John Andrews' letter is a confession of belief. He uses the word "believe" four times, and the word "belief" twice.

Ben Rich admits being a "believer."

Mental conditioning results in beliefs. Beliefs do not require evidence.


[edit on 26-9-2009 by Skeptical Ed]



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by ufo reality
ATS - what do you think Ben meant by Un Funded Opportunities? That man made UFOs were a result of studying recovered ET UFOs?


My interpretation was this:

Skunk works designs and builds experimental craft for performance testing and proof of concept, right? Some of these designs may prove promising and eventually end up getting funded and going into production.

Other designs may fall short of expectations, or funding priorities may change, and thus they never proceed with production but stop with the production of an experimental prototype or two.

Since these never end up in production they might be very unique craft, unlike anything else, and hence not only man-made UFO as in unidentified flying objects, but also UnFunded Opportunities UFOs as well.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Since these never end up in production they might be very unique craft, unlike anything else, and hence not only man-made UFO as in unidentified flying objects, but also UnFunded Opportunities UFOs as well.


That's an excellent point I'd never considered.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by fls13 "unfunded opportunities"


Black projects that were scrapped

If they found a UFO that needed back engineering it would most definately get funded


“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do.” - Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works

[edit on 26-9-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

Famous quote. Half a dozen different claims about when, where, and to whom it was said. Zero documentation for any of them. One thing they have in common; "shortly before his death". Convenient.



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Phage One thing they have in common; "shortly before his death". Convenient.


Ben retires from Lockheed Skunkworks...
Has interesting words that everyone recalls but no documentation...
couple years later dead from cancer...

Von Braun retires from NASA,
is outspoken on NASA's involvement in space weapons
no documentation
two years later at 66 he dies from cancer...

Dr Paul Brown.. Invents a resonant nuclear battery and patents it in 1989 (#4,835,433) as an "Apparatus for Direct Conversion of Radioactive Decay Energy to Electrical Energy," This would have solved the nuclear waste issues. Car crash Dies at 47... after his death his website was closed and a redirect to an agency in Washington

www.thelivingmoon.com...


George Koopman, one of the cofounders of the American Rocket Co., and the president and chief executive officer of Amroc since its creation, died July 19, 1989, of injuries sustained in an automobile accident, a crash that occurred on a deserted road. He was 44. Mr. Koopman was an example of one of those people who have literally built America - the entrepreneur. It was Mr. Koopman's dream, and the dream of his fellow American Rocket Co. cofounders and financial backers, to found a company that would create affordable access to space.



In August 1998 SpaceDev, the world's first commercial space exploration company, acquired exclusive rights to intellectual property including the three patents originally issued to American Rocket Company (Amroc) for their hybrid rocket motor technology. In addition, SpaceDev acquired exclusive possession of and access to a large quantity of Amroc engineering documents, plans, designs, test results, manufacturing data, and other materials related to the rocket motors and Amroc launch vehicles.


www.globalsecurity.org...

One more blow to free enterprise access to space

Steve Fosset signs a deal with Branson to be pilot of SpaceShip One... he disappears under mysterious circumstances and no trace, despite a massive manhunt, is found until almost a year later

Scaled Composite... builder of the SpaceShip One craft..


Test site explosion kills three - Incident at the Mojave airport also injures three workers who are testing a spaceship propellant system.
By Tami Abdollah, Times Staff Writers and Stuart Silverstein, Times Staff Writers|July 27, 2007

MOJAVE — Three workers were killed and three others were badly hurt Thursday afternoon in an explosion on the edge of Kern County's Mojave airport during the test of a propellant system for a pioneering private spaceship.

The blast occurred at a private test site run by Scaled Composites, a company founded by high-profile aviation entrepreneur Burt Rutan.


articles.latimes.com...

I have a LONG list a very LONG list....



as you say... "Convenient"


[edit on 27-9-2009 by zorgon]

[edit on 27-9-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

Convenient in that anyone can say anything they want to say about him. You are implying that he was murdered.

Rich died of esophageal cancer at the age of 69 in 1995. In 1995 the 55-74 age group accounted for 52% of all cancer deaths. In 1995 10,900 people died of esophageal cancer and 12,100 new cases were diagnosed. Esophageal cancer is one of the deadliest forms of cancer. (US statistics).

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Wernher von Braun. He retired from NASA in 1972, was diagnosed with kidney cancer in 1973 and died four years later. You're implying that he murdered by being "infected" with cancer two years before he was "outspoken".


Car crash murders?
Dr. Brown died in 2002. In 2002 there were 58,472 traffic fatalities.
George A. Koopman died in 1989. His car overturned on his way to Edwards. In 1989 there were 23,742 single car fatalities.

Steve Fosset died when he flew into the side of a mountain in bad weather. He was not murdered

The workers were killed by an explosion during testing of a prototype engine. Tragic, but like they say "rockets blow up". Strange that workers, rather than Bert Rutan were "murdered".

How about a list of all the scientists who haven't died of cancer and car crashes?



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Skeptical Ed

Originally posted by ufo reality
John Andrews sent Ben Rich a letter dated July 10, 1986.


He wrote:

The topic is UFOs. I 'believe' there are lots of UFOs. I am also tending to 'believe' they are of two categories:
A. Man made UFOs.
B. Extraterrestrial UFOs.
I believe with certainty in man made UFOs. I am tending to believe there are also extraterrestrial UFOs. Having the highest respect for you and Kelly Johnson, I'd appreciate knowing if your belief covers category B as well as category A or the above? Purpose of question? Precision. Dr. Robert Sarbacker's response was without question a statement of his belief in category B. Do you also include category B, Ben?

Ben's reply:


Ben Rich's reply was succinct, and yet a tad enigmatic. "Yes, " he wrote back to Andrews on July 21, "I'm a believer in both categories. I feel everything is possible. Many of our man made UFOs are Un Funded Opportunities. In both categories, there are a lot of kooks and charlatans - be cautious. Best regards, Ben Rich."

ATS - what do you think Ben meant by Un Funded Opportunities? That man made UFOs were a result of studying recovered ET UFOs?


[edit on 26-9-2009 by ufo reality]


ATS here: John Andrews' letter is a confession of belief. He uses the word "believe" four times, and the word "belief" twice.

Ben Rich admits being a "believer."

Mental conditioning results in beliefs. Beliefs do not require evidence.


[edit on 26-9-2009 by Skeptical Ed]


You forgot to add:

Here's my opinion

Oh and please don't start a comment with "ATS here:" as if you're speaking for everyone here. You're not.




posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Phage

In 1995 the 55-74 age group accounted for 52% of all cancer deaths. In 1995 10,900 people died of esophageal cancer and 12,100 new cases were diagnosed. Esophageal cancer is one of the deadliest forms of cancer. (US statistics).

In 2002 there were 58,472 traffic fatalities.

In 1989 there were 23,742 single car fatalities.



76% of statistics are made up on the spot...

...and are sometimes used as a smokescreen to cover up the murders of scientists.


[edit on 27/9/2009 by skibtz]



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


I agree....very interesting. Don't let Phage get to you, if a UFO landed on his front lawn he'd have a list of statistics to disprove it. It's just his nature, beleive in nothing.....because nothing can hurt you.



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


So then is it your opinion Phage, that there is nothing to worry about or investigate here? Or is it rather you are simply pointing out the possible mundane explanations of the relevant incidents? Because while it is certainly possible all of them and others were nothing more than coincidences, I also think such "coincidences" are worthy of more investigation. As you correctly pointed out, there is no concrete evidence available to support any of this, but is not the testimony from credible individuals, as well the odd 'coincidences' enough to pursue a further investigation? I only say this because if we simply stop at "well this could have just been a coincidence and nothing more, there is not enough information to come to a conclusion" then we are going to be running around in circles for a very long time.

In summation, sometimes there are sets of very odd consistencies that are relevant to a subject matter that need to be investigated further before any "debunking" can be done. Now while I fully understand you were only pointing out the possible mundane explanations I feel it is very important we keep an open mind while still maintaining a scientific approach to such cases. Because I fear that if we allow ourselves to fall too far into skepticism then we will not recognize the "real thing" even when it is right in front of us.


[edit on 9/27/2009 by jkrog08]



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 

Re: the OP, Since there is actual written evidence (I'll assume the letter has been authenticated), I'll accept that Rich said that. Beyond that, he said that he believes UFOs are both man made and extraterrestrial. He said there are crazies and fake who make claims about both. I do not see him making any connection between man made and extraterrestrial UFOs nor do I see him express anything other than a belief. He says "I am a believer".

Re: "means to travel among the stars", I haven't been able to find the original source of the claim nor any evidence that he actually said it. The varying statements about its provenance do not add credibility to it. If he actually did say it I would like to know the full context of what he said. But I think it's a case of something being accepted as fact because it has been repeated so many times


In regard to the "mysterious deaths". No, they are not "odd coincidences". People die of cancer, people die in car crashes, people die in plane crashes. I see nothing suspicious about any of these deaths. The statistics certainly don't show anything unusual about them What I find suspicious is those who make claims about people after their death. Claims that cannot be validated. The old "dog ate my homework" excuse. Any claim at all can be made, no one can prove it's not true. I find that suspicious and disrespectful.

[edit on 9/27/2009 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by ufopticsDon't let Phage get to you, if a UFO landed on his front lawn he'd have a list of statistics to disprove it.


Meh Phage is alright, but of all the skeptics on here I would most like to see his face when that saucer lands on his lawn



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


So you do not find it the least bit interesting that those individuals all reportedly talked and all dies shortly after of cancer? I am not claiming there is a connection, just saying that I feel it is somewhat intriguing and just trying to judge another respected members opinion.


Of course it is likely all a coincidence that all three individuals met their demise a few years after talking, but given the possible beyond top secret nature of the reports I do personally feel there could be something worth investigating before coming to any type of conclusion--In any favor, I mean logically I expect no type of oddity in the deaths, but I do feel such things are worthy of further investigation considering the nature of the scenario involved.



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 

Von Braun was diagnosed right after he retired. According to Zorgon, whatever it was he said that got him murdered was said two years before he died, he was diagnosed two years before that. It's ridiculous to make a connection.

Shouldn't all of the Disclosure Project whistleblowers be dead by now?



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
Famous quote. Half a dozen different claims about when, where, and to whom it was said. Zero documentation for any of them.



'speaker of the house' posted at Unexplained mysteries 10 March 2006 - 09:29 PM


I actually have the entire speech on video....very....interesting, he died shortly after...imagine that


www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

he adds later..


No...I actually have it on VHS...lol, comeon it was the 90s...if you wanna PM me your address I'll mail you a copy.


Unfortunately this was 2006 and by the time I saw this he was already gone from the site. I have been trying to track him down since.

And with a name like that it is not easy to track his postings

[edit on 27-9-2009 by zorgon]



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