dying patients may lose medicine

i dont really know what to think of this, in a way i can understand the Governments position, but i also know how heartbreaking it is to watch people dying of cancer cling to the smallest of hope i guess it comes down to how much value we put on human life , if there is some small hope or doctors believe there is no hope should the medication be funded are doctors always right?

DYING cancer patients could be weaned off taxpayer-funded drugs as the Federal Government is confronted with spiralling health costs. Health Minister Nicola Roxon wants debate about the moral challenge as the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee plans trials to determine when costly drugs become ineffective and should no longer be dispensed.

News.com.au

what do you all think?

please don't derail this thread by injecting Obamas healthcare plan into this discussion.

reply to post by Demandred

But apart from cancer drugs - which can cost taxpayers up to $50,000 a patient - Ms Roxon is asking why doctors dispense expensive, subsidised drugs to patients when cheaper generics are prescribed.

link

The mark up on drugs is beyond ridiculous .
I can understand the need for big investments in research and development to drive the process . But Big Pharma is still taking wayyyy to much from those-who are often the most vulnerable in our societies .

There's a good plant you can grow which treats cancer.

Costs about $30 in fertilizer, and 6 months of grow time.

....

Not sure why the government has it banned, while expensive pharmaceutical with dangerous side effects are being paid for with our tax dollar.

reply to post by Kaytagg


control, if you can grow your own medicine the government looses control, plus it seems to me the big pharmas dont want to cure things these days they just want to treat the symptoms that way they can keep you comming back for more and thats big $$$ for them

Originally posted by Kaytagg
There's a good plant you can grow which treats cancer.

Costs about $30 in fertilizer, and 6 months of grow time.

....

Not sure why the government has it banned, while expensive pharmaceutical with dangerous side effects are being paid for with our tax dollar.

Except it doesn't treat cancer, has never been proven to treat cancer, and is just another hocus-pocus herbal "remedy". It's very disheartening to see people rely on these when faced with tough diseases. If all I had to do was pass my patients some vitamin C and an herbal supplement, I would be on cloud nine. Unfortunately, reality doesn't tend to support such nuttery.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


i know a few people dying of cancer, unfortunately the treatment is worse than the affliction one guy is terminal and they keep giving him all these hardcore painkillers that make him so sick he cant get out of bed where as i suggested a herbal alternative that numbed the pain stopped his nausea and helped him regain his appetite right at this moment he is in Bathurst at the races running his business on his prescribed meds from the doctor he would be laid up in bed.

so which is the better method and which provides the greater quality of life?

as i said earlier its all about control ...

the Hippocratic oath is dead and $$$ is the new doctors oath

[edit on 8-10-2009 by Demandred]

Originally posted by Demandred
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

i know a few people dying of cancer, unfortunately the treatment is worse than the affliction one guy is terminal and they keep giving him all these hardcore painkillers that make him so sick he cant get out of bed where as i suggested a herbal alternative that numbed the pain stopped his nausea and helped him regain his appetite right at this moment he is in Bathurst at the races running his business on his prescribed meds from the doctor he would be laid up in bed.

so which is the better method and which provides the greater quality of life?

as i said earlier its all about control ...

the Hippocratic oath is dead and $$$ is the new doctors oath

[edit on 8-10-2009 by Demandred]

There aren't really any "painkillers" given for most cancers that would cause one to be so violently ill. In fact, they would do quite the opposite, they would knock you out or make you very lethargic.

The medicines you're describing that the doctors gave sound very much like chemotherapeutics, often given in pill form now. If you advised your friend to give up his chemo for an "herbal remedy", then you are a very poor excuse for a friend. There are many cancers which don't make you "feel bad" until they've already metastacised into a more critical area.

I truly hope your friend is well, and even more so, I hope you haven't done him wrong by pushing your snake oil.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


he stopped taking his meds himself they had him on morphine and a few other different ones but as i stated they made him violently ill, i just suggested an alternative snake oil to the poison the doctors were dishing out AFTER he stopped, he couldn't eat he couldn't sleep he was in sever pain and was always feeling nauseous

so you tell me should i have kept my mouth shut ?

he sleeps well now, eats well now the pain is manageable but never completely gone he has his quality of life is good.

he is terminal no chance of getting better the cancer has spread too far for that.

and the last time they tried chemo he nearly died

death is inevitable but now he lives his life instead of laying in bed ...

[edit on 9-10-2009 by Demandred]

Originally posted by Demandred
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

he stopped taking his meds himself they had him on morphine and a few other different ones but as i stated they made him violently ill, i just suggested an alternative snake oil to the poison the doctors were dishing out AFTER he stopped, he couldn't eat he couldn't sleep he was in sever pain and was always feeling nauseous

so you tell me should i have kept my mouth shut ?

he sleeps well now, eats well now the pain is manageable but never completely gone he has his quality of life is good.

he is terminal no chance of getting better the cancer has spread too far for that.

and the last time they tried chemo he nearly died

death is inevitable but now he lives his life instead of laying in bed ...

[edit on 9-10-2009 by Demandred]

If he truly is terminal with no chance of remission to a surgical point, then pain management is key, yes. If the placebo effect of your glorified parsley helps him cope, wonderful. OF course, if it is medical marijuana, then there is a clinical basis for the pain relief.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


i think were on the same wave length

how ever ATS terms and conditions restrict any clarification which should be confirmation enough for the nature of the treatment.

all i know is it helps him and i would never recommend anyone stop taking prescribed medications from a qualified doctor as probably like you i feel for the most part they dont work, they may or may not complement a treatment but that is a discussion for another day.

peace

Originally posted by Demandred
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

i think were on the same wave length

how ever ATS terms and conditions restrict any clarification which should be confirmation enough for the nature of the treatment.

all i know is it helps him and i would never recommend anyone stop taking prescribed medications from a qualified doctor as probably like you i feel for the most part they dont work, they may or may not complement a treatment but that is a discussion for another day.

peace

Ah, okay, I see now. Yes, that 'treatment' does have clinical merit, and I've actually signed on a few letters with colleagues urging for a more widespread acceptance of it.

Like I said, if your friend was, indeed, terminal and voluntarily stopped treatment, that is absolutely his right. If, however, he was not terminal and stopped a treatment simply because he didn't like it, then I think it's a very unwise and clinically unsound decision. This does not, however, appear to be the case in the case of your friend.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


if he wasnt terminal and stopped his treatment i woulda kicked his a$$

its a very sad situation i think he still hopes that a miracle cure will arrive in time and make him well again but hes tried i think just about everything even imported trial medications over from the US that were said to had success in reducing the size of the tumors all to no effect.

Originally posted by Demandred
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

if he wasnt terminal and stopped his treatment i woulda kicked his a$$

its a very sad situation i think he still hopes that a miracle cure will arrive in time and make him well again but hes tried i think just about everything even imported trial medications over from the US that were said to had success in reducing the size of the tumors all to no effect.

I agree completely, it's a very sad situation. Seeing people who I know will never recover is easily the hardest part for me, but, like you, I just try to make things as comfortable as possible for them within my scope of abilities.