Stop! Before you swat another fly...

Well this is a new venue of thought for me as I usually do not tarry too much into the realm of speculative thought. But this is the Grey Area (now in Skunk Works as it was....ahem....too Grey) and this idea is very grey and full of intrigue, mystery and..........other stuff.

Since we have stuck our pinky toe into the public swimming pool that is space, we have done so with caution and careful planning in a very mechanized way. We haven't really thought of strapping a jet pack to a chimp and launching his butt into space just to see what it does. No. We put chimpie into a capsule first and without a soft towel and hand lotion! He had to go it alone. But....he came back.

Where am I going with this? I dunno....Now I do. We probe. Yup. We're probers. We send junk to other places armed with various and sundry sensors and scanners to tell us all about the strange place we just violated. Kewl!

What I'm about to suggest is a bit anthropomorphic. OK it's a lot anthropomorthic. If humans probe, wouldn't it be a good idea seemingly if other beings from elsewhere or elsewhen did as well? Who's to say they are not?

No otherworldly or othertimely machinations floating and rolling around in plain view with a scoop in the ground and a dish in the sky? Maybe it's not that simple. Maybe it's because we are not as dumb as we look or as they think or as the best testing indicates.

How would one fool a sentient race of beings on another world? Obviously you would want to blend in the invasive tech being sent, right? Right?! I thought so.

I say maybe that is exactly what is happening if it is in fact happening at all. Insects and rodents have been around since before mankind. Perfect! These critters get into house and home and in some cases, ech!, into body and being.

These things are loaded with sensory input and output. They get into hard to reach places with nary a stare and are at the same time quite resilient to climate and adversities of most kinds including nuclear.

If you wanna really get wicked with this speculation and the observers really wanna see deep in the most invasive way, one would use the smallest of inconspicuous intruders: bacteria and viruses. Mild viruses and bacteria could be sent and programmed to be "species specific" in their material search to seek out what makes that organism tick at a cellular level. Scary huh? Naaaaah!

Well there it is. My one speculative thread that I have allowed myself. Part serious, mostly tongue-in-cheek. Definitely food for thought.

Careful what you sneeze into,

Erik

[edit on 22/SeppmFri, 25 Sep 2009 15:43:02 -0500/08 by redwoodjedi]

[edit on 22/SeppmFri, 25 Sep 2009 17:30:05 -0500/08 by redwoodjedi]

Good post!

I always thought cells, viruses, etc must have some form of consciousness.

If we can make nanotech robots the size of a human cell in about 10 years from now, i wonder what could be scouting on our planet and through our bodies.

I knew those flies were watching me!

S&F for you!



[edit on 25/9/09 by locster]

Originally posted by locster
Good post!

I always thought cells, viruses, etc must have some form of consciousness.

If we can make nanotech robots the size of a human cell in about 10 years from now, i wonder what could be scouting on our planet and through our bodies.

I knew those flies were watching me!

S&F for you!




[edit on 25/9/09 by locster]

Wow! Thanks. I wanna wear 'em on my forehead!

I know this was kind of a goofy post. But I didn't know how else to post it unless it was in some sort of humorous manner. Humor is how I show my general discomfort for speculative thought. I have hives now. Just wretched really.

Anyhoo, yes I thought if visitors just used the current format of existing flora and fauna that their preexplorative operations could theoritically go virtually unnoticed. How easy it would be for them.

On a more positive note, this very speculation could very well be the way we pursue probing of our own sort in the future. Biodegradable and fully functional and in a very practical format without disturbing the natural surroundings in any suspicious way. Hybrid Probes!! I like it!

Cheers,

Erik

[edit on 22/SeppmFri, 25 Sep 2009 15:36:21 -0500/08 by redwoodjedi]

reply to post by redwoodjedi


well hybrid probes sounds like fun untill they malfunction and keep re-producing and flood a planet in hybrid probes!

I dont find your OP goofy. It was thinking out loud and it sounds interesting.

Since this line of reasoning only works if all life forms work together, I will say......

As soon as the other life forms stop killing me, hurricanes, tornadoes, lightening, millions of viruses, bacterias, and deer ticks, then I will immediately stop swatting flies....

Originally posted by uaocteaou
Since this line of reasoning only works if all life forms work together, I will say......

As soon as the other life forms stop killing me, hurricanes, tornadoes, lightening, millions of viruses, bacterias, and deer ticks, then I will immediately stop swatting flies....

I would say that your swatting flies shows precisely that all life forms are working together and what is more that if they weren't, flies would be the least of your worries let alone anything planetary altogether. Hmmmm. This speculation thingy is fun!

Cheers,

Erik

Well this got moved over to Skunk Works. Great! It's so speculative even I think it stinks! Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused anyone.

Cheers,

Erik

reply to post by redwoodjedi


Pretty miuich everything on ATS belongs in skunk works, so don't feel bad about that.

As for flies, I live next to a few cow pastures.

Killing flies is like a hobby around here. We have contests to see who got the most everyday!

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by redwoodjedi

 

Pretty miuich everything on ATS belongs in skunk works, so don't feel bad about that.

As for flies, I live next to a few cow pastures.

Killing flies is like a hobby around here. We have contests to see who got the most everyday!

...And thusly you have potentially wiped out millions of years of evolved spyware technology in a single blow. I look forward to the day when our species can produce technology that can run as well on crap. Fuel crises over so long as there is greasy food and beer. Especially if we are sending it out in the form of probes. If there is one common factor that living physical entities possibly have is the ability to eliminate waste. No wonder so many cattle are getting probed!! Schnikeys!

Cheers,

Erik

The day science is able to have a conversation with a virus or bacteria culture i will be living in a secluded cabin in BF-nowhere.

Originally posted by Retikx
The day science is able to have a conversation with a virus or bacteria culture i will be living in a secluded cabin in BF-nowhere.

Well, I guess you should start loading up the truck and heading to the deer camp, Buddy! Because that very thing is right around the corner in the not-so-distant future.

Bonnie Bassler discovered a secret about microbes that the science world has missed for centuries. The bugs are talking to each other. And plotting against us.

By Steve Silberman

Trim and hyperkinetic at 40, Bonnie Bassler is often mistaken for a graduate student at conferences. Five mornings a week at dawn, she walks a mile to the local YMCA to lead a popular aerobics class. When a representative from the MacArthur Foundation phoned last fall, the caller played coy at first, asking Bassler if she knew anyone who might be worthy of one of the foundation's fellowships, popularly known as genius grants. "I'm sorry," Bassler apologized, "I don't hang out with that caliber of people."

The point of the call, of course, was that Bassler - an associate professor of molecular biology at Princeton - is now officially a genius herself. More than a decade ago, she began studying a phenomenon that even fellow biologists considered to be of questionable significance: bacterial communication. Now she finds herself at the forefront of a major shift in mainstream science.

The notion that microbes have anything to say to each other is surprisingly new. For more than a century, bacterial cells were regarded as single-minded opportunists, little more than efficient machines for self-replication. Flourishing in plant and animal tissue, in volcanic vents and polar ice, thriving on gasoline additives and radiation, they were supremely adaptive, but their lives seemed, well, boring. The "sole ambition" of a bacterium, wrote geneticist Fran�ois Jacob in 1973, is "to produce two bacteria."

Source and the rest of the story

Sorry. I'm gonna miss ya!

Cheers,

Erik

Hehehe, great thread! And with just enough humour to make it comfortable to read and understand. Hmm, your idea about insects being probes (if that is what you said, I have a tendancy to misunderstand things and barge in with a comment that is stupid) reminds me of an X-Files episode, the one with the robot wasps (I think); and talking to germs reminds me of that Red Dwarf episode- the one where Lister has to have his arm amputated. I always knew that if any fictional series could have an actual bearing on reality, those two might (loosly I mean). That's what made this a lovely read, cause it's so plausible but so mad!!!

And there's nothing wrong with the Skunk Works, I've never posted anywhere else...

Ramadwarf on Cactus Spikes

reply to post by Ramadwarf Philes


Not wishing to derail the thread, but according to Bob Dean, the producer from the x-files had some informants on the inside. Some of the episodes had storylines straight out of still classified files.

Now back on topic.
Op, if we combine the things you said with the concept of creating your own reality, what is really going on?

reply to post by redwoodjedi


Great premise, and the sort of thread that stretches the mind!

I can only reiterate what others have already said; if we have the technology to build nano-tech steam engines the size of a flea’s kneecap, then why shouldn’t they have better, if not superior capabilities?

Watch a fly hovering over fine sand, and darn if it doesn’t disturb that sand the same way as a helicopter. A mini probe could easily be disguised as something mundane and there’s no reasonable objection as to why they couldn’t be here already, even if the idea is firmly in the realms of speculation.

Now all we need to do is set up reams of fly paper and dissect every bug captured to find signs of metal or ceramics…

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
Hehehe, great thread! And with just enough humour to make it comfortable to read and understand.

Hmm, your idea about insects being probes (if that is what you said, I have a tendancy to misunderstand things and barge in with a comment that is stupid) reminds me of an X-Files episode, the one with the robot wasps (I think); and talking to germs reminds me of that Red Dwarf episode- the one where Lister has to have his arm amputated. I always knew that if any fictional series could have an actual bearing on reality, those two might (loosly I mean). That's what made this a lovely read, cause it's so plausible but so mad!!!

And there's nothing wrong with the Skunk Works, I've never posted anywhere else...

Ramadwarf on Cactus Spikes

Hey! That's in line with what I'm thinking but let's make it a bit subtler. No so obtrusive or as clunky as this guy from The Fifth Element.



More closer to this guy. Which is real by the way and already has the interest of security systems companies.





Researchers at Harvard have created a robotic fly

Robot FlyCreated by Robert Wood and his research team at Harvard University, this tiny little robot fly can take off using its mechanical wings.

Weighing only 60 milligrams, with a wingspan of three centimeters, the tiny robot's movements are modeled on those of a real fly. While much work remains to be done on the mechanical insect, the researchers say that such small flying machines could one day be used as spies, or for detecting harmful chemicals.

Wood and other researchers in the field of Bio-Mimetics try to solved technological problems by observing how nature solves similar problems. While this concept is not entirely new (a few sketches from Leonardo's notebooks come to mind) we are at a point where we can actually build things that mimic the way things work in nature much better.

Source

This little guy is the start. But I would look more into the possibility of engineered and programmable "organics" in the not so distant future.


Cheers,

Erik

P.S. I don't have a problem with Skunk Works. Just never lived here before. Ha!

Originally posted by locster
reply to post by Ramadwarf Philes

 

Not wishing to derail the thread, but according to Bob Dean, the producer from the x-files had some informants on the inside. Some of the episodes had storylines straight out of still classified files.

Now back on topic.
Op, if we combine the things you said with the concept of creating your own reality, what is really going on?

Hey, buddy! I don't think we have never not created our own reality. Combining what I said with your statement is simply extending it. What is going on is just a variation on a theme. The Universal Collective Consciousness finds newer and more inventive ways to experience it's Self in ever infinite realms of Macro and Micro; Inner and Outer. The Universe is fascinated with the idea of experiencing it's Self. The Question then is the Universe. The Answer is Life...

Cheers,

Erik

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by redwoodjedi

 

Great premise, and the sort of thread that stretches the mind!

I can only reiterate what others have already said; if we have the technology to build nano-tech steam engines the size of a flea’s kneecap, then why shouldn’t they have better, if not superior capabilities?

Watch a fly hovering over fine sand, and darn if it doesn’t disturb that sand the same way as a helicopter. A mini probe could easily be disguised as something mundane and there’s no reasonable objection as to why they couldn’t be here already, even if the idea is firmly in the realms of speculation.

Now all we need to do is set up reams of fly paper and dissect every bug captured to find signs of metal or ceramics…

Indeed! Although I don't think you need to be sifting through the bug juice for metals and ceramics. I think it will be if it isn't already, much more organic in nature. If anything contrived appears structurally, It would almost have to be silicates. Malleability and endurance in a multitude of climates make the silicates very covetable (sic).

Cheers,

Erik

[edit on 22/SepamSat, 26 Sep 2009 11:46:29 -0500/08 by redwoodjedi]

Well, I found this to be very interesting as should you all. NASA? Of course!



INTRODUCTION

The Autonomic NanoTechnology Swarm (ANTS) is a generic mission architecture consisting of miniaturized, autonomous, self-similar, reconfigurable, addressable components forming structures. The components/structures have wide spatial distribution and multi-level organization. This ‘swarm’ behavior is inspired by the success of social insect colonies where within their specialties, individuals outperform generalists and with sufficiently efficient social interaction and coordination, groups of specialists outperform groups of generalists.

MISSION

The President's Vision for Space Exploration initiated the transformation of NASA's extraordinary capabilities. The goals of the new vision include advancement of U.S. scientific, security, and economic interests through a robust space exploration program which includes the goal of human exploration of planetary surfaces.

The Vision requires innovative multi-function structures, minimal resource use, and development of stand-alone and human-interfaced robotic capabilities. Our team has responded by developing ART (Addressable Reconfigurable Technology), as near-term Tetrahedral Walkers and Manipulators for lunar reconnaissance (ALMA/ALI) and as a more advanced mobile infrastructure for lunar exploration and exploitation (LARA) with applicability wherever extreme mobility is required on Earth.

Future ART structures will be capable of true autonomy using bilevel intelligence combining autonomic and heuristic aspects, acting as part of an Autonomous NanoTechnology Swarm (ANTS).

ARCHITECTURE

The Autonomous NanoTechnology Swarm (ANTS) Architecture is well suited to remote space or ground operations. It is being implemented on a near term basis, using Addressable Reconfigurable Technology (ART). In the future, Super Miniaturized ART (SMART) will form highly reconfigurable networks of struts, acting as 3D mesh or 2D fabric to perform a range of functions on demand. The ANTS approach harnesses the effective skeletal/ muscular system of the frame itself to enable amoeboid movement, effectively ‘flowing’ between morphological forms. ANTS structures would thus be capable of forming an en tire mobile modular infrastructure adapted to its environment.

The ANTS architecture is inspired by the success of social insect colonies, a success based on the division of labor within the colony in two key ways: First, within their specialties, individual specialists generally outperform generalists. Second, with sufficiently efficient social interaction and coordination, the group of specialists generally outperforms the group of generalists. Thus systems designed as ANTS arebuilt from potentially very large numbers of highly autonomous, yet socially interactive, elements. The architecture is self-similar in that elements and sub-elements of the system may also be recursively structured as ANTS on scales ranging from microscopic to interplanetary distances.


ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE



In order for robots to be considered ‘intelligent’, they must be able to learn about their world and develop their own ability to interact with it. To date, work in artificial intelligence has gone in the direction of programming heuristic, highly symbolic, decision making ability (higher level intelligence), or developing hardware that responds autonomically to its environment (lower level intelligence). High-level approaches are resource-intensive, expensive, heavily symbolic, and thus often face problems in real-world problem-solving. Low-level dynamical control or reactive approaches are developed for particular tasks and thus lack an innate connection to any higher-level purpose. Researchers at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center are developing a new approach to realizing autonomous artificially intelligent systems: a software construct called a neural basis function (NBF) to bridge the divide between lower and higher level functions and create bilevel intelligence capably of ‘truly’ autonomous behavior. NBFs will greatly simplify the process of developing autonomous remote systems. A Lower Level Neural System (LLNS) provides for elementary system function, security, and safety, while a Higher Level Neural System (HLNS) provides more purposeful behavior such as problem solving, planning, scheduling to achieve goals. These two systems interact via a third system, an Evolvable Neural Interface (ENI) that allows the AI system to be situated in a real world context.

Source


Ding, Ding, Ding!!

Just imagine these guys being adapted to the climates of Mars or Venus or.........ahem.......Zeta Reticuli. Whatever the hell that climate is. *sheeesh*


Cheers,

Erik

[edit on 22/SepamSat, 26 Sep 2009 10:56:29 -0500/08 by redwoodjedi]

Actually, before I forget it, I should probably share this story wwith everyone:

My Dad and myself were in the living room watching television (can't remember what it was though) and, from the garden came this wasp. It hovered in front of the tv as if it were watching it and then it started traversing the walls, hovering in front of my Dad's paintings as it went- and it visited each one individually. The it sort of circled around the lights and had a gander at the loud speakers before darting around the old videos and DVDs- well, I say 'darting', it was just strafing past them, from left to right, slowly, like it was looking at them. It was the first time I had seen a civilised wasp and it was really weird.

What was that about? I mean it wasn't conveniently just now it was about four or five months ago (not that that's important).

Ramadwarf on an appreciative wasp

Originally posted by Ramadwarf Philes
Actually, before I forget it, I should probably share this story wwith everyone:

My Dad and myself were in the living room watching television (can't remember what it was though) and, from the garden came this wasp. It hovered in front of the tv as if it were watching it and then it started traversing the walls, hovering in front of my Dad's paintings as it went- and it visited each one individually. The it sort of circled around the lights and had a gander at the loud speakers before darting around the old videos and DVDs- well, I say 'darting', it was just strafing past them, from left to right, slowly, like it was looking at them. It was the first time I had seen a civilised wasp and it was really weird.

What was that about? I mean it wasn't conveniently just now it was about four or five months ago (not that that's important).

Ramadwarf on an appreciative wasp

Who knows? Who's to say that the little guy wasn't some sort of visual recording device used by Intergalactic Ambassadors of High Art? Perhaps if we could find a way to log onto Douglas Adams' Sub Etha Waves from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy we would find your Dad's paintings listed for sale on eGrey or up for terse critiquing on UfoTube. Kewl!

Cheers,

Erik