Ending Subsidies to Student Loan Firms

One of the promises by Obama that he actually get to keep,

While President Barack Obama has spent his summer attempting to pass comprehensive health care reform with very little success thus far, his administration may quietly be on the verge of altering the student loan industry in a very dramatic way.

At a speech Monday in New York focused on education the president called for an end to the practice of providing banks and other financial institutions with government subsidies in exchange for providing students with private educational loans.

"Ending this unwarranted subsidy for the big banks is a no-brainer for folks everywhere except for some folks in Washington," Obama said. "In fact, we're already seeing the special interests rallying to save this giveaway.

The president expect to save 80 billion dollars of give away money to banks that could be used to get directly to students around the nation via government grants.

I think this is great idea.

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by marg6043


IF he actually does something to get this passed, I will find that amazing. Student Loans are probably the most corrupt form of loans, after payday loans.. absolutely criminal.. if Obama manages to cut out the middle man it will greatly benefit students.. there's no reason in hell we should owe private banks for our education! We should be able to get funds directly from the government since they deny us free Higher Education.

Only thing I wish he stood for is perhaps making ALL Higher Education, at least the first 4 years, free.

But anyways... second time in two days I've agreed with Obama.. if I don't cut that out people might start thinking I'm no longer a backwards racist hellbent on hating Obama. According to Jimmy Carter anyways....

reply to post by Rockpuck


The sad thing is Rockpuck that I remember when education was a thing of merits, see back in my time in the 70s I went to college on state and federal grants, didn't pay a penny for college, I earned the right to those grants through good grades and incentives.

College tuition was very low, my credits were between 5 to 15 dollars for credit.

But by the time my younger brother and sister were college bound the state and federal grants were cut, student loans were the latest thing in and everybody with a student loan could go to college, the private colleges started to sprout everywhere and their tuitions started to increase to the point that by the time my sister was in college the tuition went from just a littler over one hundred dollars per semester to a whooping over a thousand dollars for a semester.

The tuition started to be increased by private colleges and finally started to get government run universities like the one I attended privatized for profits.

Things has gotten worst for students since the seventies, see younger people that never had free education like I did doesn't have a clue that it was a time that you could go to college and be free of debt after you got
your degree.

Sad.



[edit on 22-9-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


This is why some of us are not even bothering. Why would I spend 6 years getting a degree to spend 40 years in debt? I'd have to take out massive student loans to do it, my family is too poor to send me. I'd rather make due with my natural talents and what education I can give myself, than be in debt for the rest of my life...

reply to post by D.E.M.


This one of the issues that bothers me the most, while the government makes mandatory that every child have the rights to an education this doesn't extend to college education also.

One of the reasons given when the big take over by privatization of colleges and the student loans industry was that they were trying to help every student be able to get an education regardless of merits.

But what they were not telling is the always present seed of corruption and greed, the students that this privatization were to help became the milking cow for profits.

And it has gotten worst as the years go by, education should be affordable for every student regardless of financial backgrown.

Sad but as everything nothing is done for the well being of the people but for the fat pockets of those that are to gain the most out of making servants of others.

This is where my sister fell under, she could not go to government run university because she did not qualifed due to her grades so she had to get into a private college and get herself in debt that lasted up to 10 years after graduation to pay, while my younger brother academic profile gave him a free education.

Sad.




[edit on 22-9-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


You hit the biggest problem..

Back in the day you didn't need a degree for a "normal" job.. to work among the middle class, college degrees were reserved for specialties and the upper middle to upper classes. Thus college was not free, it was cheaper because less people attended, but even if you didn't you could get a good paying factory job or something.

Now? .... ssheeeesh...

You can't do ANYTHING without a degree (if you want money anyways) .. I'm competing with 4 and 6 year degree holders for jobs, thus I went back to school (part time as I had to use cash ) .. these are not even middle class jobs, these are $10/hr jobs lol.. if you want the same status a 4 year degree had years ago, you need a Masters at a minimum..

Higher Education is a money maker, thus its corrupt.

I know too many people who couldn't get grants and relied entirely on Student Loans to get their worthless degrees that have aided them in no way to working any job other than waiting tables in a restaurant or as a barrista for Star*ucks. Each and every one of them wishes they never took out a single Student Loan?

Why?

Because although interest is deferred until graduation, the interest payments alone on $100,000 in Student Loans is enough to keep one in debt indefinitely.

Student Loans are a scam. It is just another snare for Banks to get you caught into Indentured Servitude to them.

And woe be unto you if you actually used Credit Cards to pay for your College Books!

That money given as Federal Grants to Students would go much farther than giving it to Banks as incentive to enslave our younger generations.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thanks for reminding me of school technical or vocational training, I remember that when I was in school you got the option to attend vocational school while in hight school all for fee, this was for those that could not afford to go to college or that just didn't qualify for government and state grants.

Their vocational training was as good as a 4 year degree in college and free because that is what it took to finished, the entire years of hight school.

What we got now in schools is nothing but a pitiful shell of what vocational training used to be back in the days.

And let not forget that it was plenty of industries in every city to offer high school students with all the employment needs at the time.

Look now at the cities and the empty shells and fall out buildings that still are around of the long gone era of Americas productivity.

Darn we are in big trouble.

reply to post by fraterormus


I know, my daughter even when she graduated with honors in hight school and earned a state grand, tuition was so expensive in her chosen
university that for the last two years of college she had to get into a student loan.

We paid for most of the expenses but still was not enough to cover everything specially when she was living in campus.

At least her loan was only under 10 thousand dollars as my husband and I made the sacrifices to pay for everything else after her grands were over.

The take on this topic is interesting, to me especially, for without those student loans I would not have been able to attend school. As it is I didnt dare take out loans for more money than just enough to get my associates degree, and that itself set me back 22000.00
there was a time when educational credits cost what the credits were worth. But in the short period of time I was in college, I saw credit hours go from 75.00 a credit hour to 450.00 a credit hour.
This was at a college where I attended school at night, taking accelerated courses(8 weeks versus the normal 12), taught by proffessors who received 25.00 for every evening they taught regardless of whether they taught for 2 hours or 4 hours.

I learned nothing that I didnt already know, and still held a 4.0 GPA.

So, why did I go back to school, for the peice of paper of course. I couldnt get a good job without it. Then I landed an interview with a large land grant university, and asked if I needed to produce my transcripts and a copy of my diploma- THE ANSWER- NO, WE ONLY HIRE ON WORK EXPERIENCE NOT ON EDUCATIONAL LEVEL.( and this interview was for a teaching position) Did I get the job, OF COURSE. But not because of my 22000.00 diploma, it was was because i had "wide and varied experience". Does anyone understand this system? I sure dont.

If Obama really does this it would help alot of people.

I am a poor person who is currently working on my Bachelors' degree. I can say for a fact I have more than 30,000 dollars in debt right now ( prior to any masters or PHD work i need to do that will cost more money) and if I am able to pay off just what I have right now back, in 20 years I will have paid back over 120,000 dollars. If that is not a messed up system I do not know what is.

To make matters worse all universities and colleges use student populations as pocketbooks.

In the economic downturn this has lead to not only record tuition increases but a slapping on of "fees" and where do there fees go? No telling because they laid off 600 people, and demand 5 day furloghs for the teachers, and yet the Coach of the football team makes 450,000$ a year...... he is not even contributing to academics... isn't that what universities are for?

Public and private institutions care more about making money and being douche bags than truly expanding the mind of the people attending.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade in my education for anything, but its not the Professors who are making the money , here they make between 45,000 and 60,000 a year, but the president of the univeristy and all the "administrators" who do what? slap on more fees to pay for their fancy cars and high tech bull.


I hate money and everything involved with the money and education system in america.

If Obama can make this happen, I at least wont have to pay off my loans for the entirety of my lifetime.

reply to post by fraterormus


Indeed, and this is the biggest problem of all: The degree's are approaching what I like to call "High School Diploma" syndrome.

An explanation: High School diploma's are worthless. Everyone has one, so they mean nothing in the real world. Not in Canada, not in the US. Thanks to the no child left behind policies in every country, they force kids through High School like it is some sort of factory assembly line, and thus even the stupidest dunce has a High School diploma. Did that kid in the wheel chair with downs syndrome and a slew of other deficiencies even "pass" his classes? Not if you measure by the academics of the Valedictorian, but they still gave them the bloody Diploma! By passing everyone, it makes the piece of paper worthless for the rest of us, because it is something everyone has and thus gives employers no indication of your worth.

The same is rapidly happening to University. So I sat through 4 years of school to get my BA in History (example). What was the point? So did the other 4000 people in my lecture hall, and that was just at my university! The degree becomes ubiquitous and useless in the real world. I'm not even touching on the problems of how useless some degree's are for actually getting jobs (Ala, the history example, you used to get a degree and then get tenure. Try getting tenure with 4000 graduates vying for the position? Hahahaha).

Hear about the A-level situation in England this year? Same problem. School has become a factory, and in the case of secondary school, it's a factory that you pay to sit on the assembly line of. Why the hell should I go $100,000 in debt to be lectured by graduates of last years classes, and be forced to take classes I don't need just so the University can justify having them? Where is the potential for discussion in a lecture hall of 4000 people? What is the point of getting a degree that jobs do not even exist for, and going into debt for it no less?

At least in Iceland you don't have to pay for University, maybe I'll move there...

Edited to say: And all of my examples are based on the Canadian experience, where the major schools are all government run for bloody sakes!

[edit on 22-9-2009 by D.E.M.]

This is a good thing I agree. When my husband and I went to college, we ended up between us with around 100,000 in loans, that was with my receiving grants and using the work study programs.

Now, we are looking at trying to pay for our children to get into University. The problem is we just can't afford this. It sickens me to think my children will end up in debt for most of their lives for their education. Both of them have awesome grades and we will be hunting down scholarships, grants etc, but I don't see where these things will pay for their education and we will end up with more loans.

Basically, we've just finished paying off our school loans, and now looking at getting into debt again to send our children to school. The cost, just keeps families in debt for life. We are in our 40's, and with the cost of education these days, the loans for our children in the end will be more than what it cost my husband and I, meaning it will take us longer to pay off. I gather we will be in our 60's or 70's by the time we are out from under these education loans, and then we will most likely be looking at trying to pay for grand children to go to university. (hopefully no grandchildren for many years LOL) But, I am willing to take on more debt for my children to actually have a chance in this world.

Personally, I think education should be far cheaper than it is.

Good health care for all children no matter what, and good education is something that this country needs to move forward.

But greed seems to be seeping everywhere. A corporate society is not a society for the people, and the USA is now a corporate society full of greed.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by D.E.M.
Indeed, and this is the biggest problem of all: The degree's are approaching what I like to call "High School Diploma" syndrome.

...Everyone has one, so they mean nothing in the real world. Not in Canada, not in the US. Thanks to the no child left behind policies in every country, they force kids through High School like it is some sort of factory assembly line, and thus even the stupidest dunce has a High School diploma.

I hear what you are saying. I didn't graduate at the top of my class in High School, but I walked away with a better education than anyone in my High School Class. Teachers even came to me as a walking reference work or for peer review.

When I went off to University I was appalled that my Professors lacked basic knowledge, even in their primary field of expertise, and that ultimately the University experience was no different than High School. You just show up to class for 4 years and do a modicum of cramming and purging and you get a diploma to show for it.

Jumping through hoops like a trained show dog. That's all a College Education amounts to.

Never mind how little respect I had for my peers who shouldn't have passed any class who went on to become doctors, lawyers, and professors themselves. You really can't take a doctor seriously when you watched them use a Beer Bong back during their Undergrad Studies rather than study for exams...let alone go to them for medical advice when they were always coming to you to do their homework for them in College.

The field I have worked in for 25 years now is not the field that I went to College for 15 years ago. My degree doesn't help me in my career, although ultimately it is what I would prefer doing with my life. Thankfully, in my career field, even though H.R. demands a 4 year degree in my field, no interviewer turns down the opportunity to interview me for the position when I have 25 years of practical experience in the field.

And that's what it comes down to...

A degree only shows that you are willing to play the rules. It shows nothing more than diligence. It is not an indicator of being versed in a particular field, or possessing knowledge or intellect. It may open doors to give you a chance to prove the later in an interview, but it is not enough alone to get you hired.

No degree will ever be a substitute for working knowledge, practical experience, or innovative thought.

If you want to be recognized and hired with a History degree, then you write an expository book on a particular Historical event that hasn't been covered in depth before. Learn the overall field better than your peers. Specialize in a specific period and know it better than most. Word will get around academic circles, and your working knowledge will show through to anyone in that field (or hiring for that field). Just because you have a degree or not has little to nothing to do with it.

And that is precisely all the more reason our youth shouldn't fall into that fallacy of getting a degree at any cost. No degree is worth a lifetime of debt to Banks that underwrite your Student Loans. If the only alternative to go to College is Student Loans, you'd be better off teaching yourself. You'll walk away from it not only without having accrued a great amount of debt and financial hardship, but more employable than those who do have a degree.

Originally posted by fraterormus

And that is precisely all the more reason our youth shouldn't fall into that fallacy of getting a degree at any cost. No degree is worth a lifetime of debt to Banks that underwrite your Student Loans. If the only alternative to go to College is Student Loans, you'd be better off teaching yourself. You'll walk away from it not only without having accrued a great amount of debt and financial hardship, but more employable than those who do have a degree.

I think that to a point your right but in reality that is not true for those of is in our 20's. Most places wont hire you anymore unless you at least have your BA ( if its a career type job not just one to pay the bills) And without getting hired than you cannot gain experience. How do I not go into debt for my education if I can't get a job without one? I have experince in all sorts of things and yet that "experience" dont mean # in the job world.

For Example!
My stepfather was out of work for 3 years. He is a computer programmer and has over 15 years experience. And yet he could not get a job with any company for 3 years because he did not have the proper "certifications" although he had 15 years of experience and work history in the field.

Same thing happend to my mother because she never got her degree, and it took years to find a job and even then she had to do it through a friend who knew of her experience and expertise at webdesign, graphic design, artistry all of it.

I am not shooting down your experience thats wonderful and it sucks you cant use your degree, I find that to be true for more people than I like to think about, however in this current job market for those of us that are younger, we are unable to even enter the market without some piece of paper saying we can cross our T's and dot our i's

Something to think about, cause while student loans drag us down the only thing that will let us lift up at all is having to get that damn piece of paper.

Otherwise you are consigned to a life of McDonald's or some such.

And I don't want to make minimum wage for the rest of my life thank you.

reply to post by ChildOfUranus


I work for a multi-million dollar online media company, as a Manager of Content. I oversee the day to day work of several interns and other employees, as well as my own duties. I make a decent salary and can pay my bills. In another 3 months, I will be on the board of directors and have a majority stake in said company.

I'm 19 and before this I was working at Starbucks after having dropped out of a degree in Game Art & Design due to not having the money to finish it.

It's not the paper you have in your hand, it's the skills you have. I put 5 years of my life into learning the ins and outs of computers and building a portfolio. I worked as an intern on two MMORPG's while in Highschool, thanks to my portfolio work. It paid off a damn sight better than spending 4 years in Uni with my friends from Highschool, wouldn't you agree?

reply to post by D.E.M.


Yes but what you don't think about is that the opportunities for those types of things like interning and getting into good jobs young is very very few and far in between.

Out of 500 applicants, I got chosen to be an intern. Those other 499 people are screwed for the experience.

Just because some companies will take you on experience and your personal greatness alone does not mean most companies will. Like I said my stepfather has 15 years hard experience in the field of programming and yet it still took 3 years to get a job. What kind of hope do we people that don't have the experience have? Only way out is a degree in most cases.

I am not saying I think that everyone should get a degree, I am getting one because the career I eventually wish to do requires it. If my career didn't than I would not be bothering.

But again another personal example.

My boyfriend has his GED and has not gotten any post high school training.

In this bad job economy this is a death sentence.

He has been out of work for ten months now, not because he hasn't been trying but because no one is willing to hire him to even let him get the experience.

How do you get jobs with experience if you cant get into the job in the first place? How do you gain the experience needed if you cant get your foot into the door?

For me its a degree.

For others is mommy and daddy, or friends, or family.

For others still there is occasionally an employer that is willing to teach you and let you gain experience.

But that is the minority.

Student loans are quite horrible. I owe over $130k and cannot even find a job flipping burgers. I'll never get my loans paid off. With the interest, by the time I would get it paid back, it'll be probably $160k or maybe more.

I've no sympathies for students getting into debt. My idiot siblings were all sent to the best colleges in our country. As a result my dad doesn't have a lot of money now and still has to work (somewhat). Education my ass! I've no degree myself (don't need to) but I'm uber smart.

Besides, modern lifestyles are now making man physically inferior. Don't come into the city. Work the farm, plant potatoes and catch lizards for your protein, boy. It's good for our species. See those German descended Midwest boys? They're so good looking!

Bill Gates never finished college. Niether did the current richest man in my country. If students want to finish school and can't afford it, let them work for it. Hard. Or sell your flesh or something.



[edit on 9/22/2009 by eldard]