The price for France to sell 36 Rafales? Billions

The president of Brazil has announced thaty his country is in negotiations to purchase 36 Rafales from France. What did France have to do to get that deal?



A Nuclear submarine? What next? Are the French going to sell them a SSBN too?



Hmmm, and prop up an Emrbraer program. All this to see a few jets.

Sure every country does this, but whent its the US wow look at the complaints. When its the EU? Its all well and good.

You know, thats a good point.

Brazil are already a Nuclear power though, they have a number of reactors.

Also, are they in any way hostile to the West? They wouldn't exactly be deemed as a threat would they?

WHAT?!?!


You not remember the bitching there was when the Brits sold Eurofighter to the Saudis?


There was a helluva lot, and still is, of arguments concerning the actions taken to 'grease the track' so to speak.

A Nuclear submarine? What next? Are the French going to sell them a SSBN too?

Crazy Brazil!!!

Crazy France!!!

Its well known that Brazil is totally owned by the European banks, its been bankrupted and would no doubt be bombed by the "Yanks" if it wasn't on the globalist's side.

I suspect that the next product which France want to sell is "Eiffel Tower "!!!

France, your decision is wrong

Brazil is the leading economic & military power in South America by far, and a strong strategic partner & ally of the US. The French (also a major US ally, all BSing aside) are pursuing a defense & industrial relationship with Brazil.

I fail to see any threat here, Brazil is hardly what you'd call militarily adventurous anyway.

reply to post by xmotex

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I dont really see it as a threat. It was more along the lines of what it takes to sell a jet these days.

Well they aint the only ones making deals.

Major arms deals by Latin American countries




Official: Russian arms sales to set new record

I wonder what exactly was on that "lost" Russian ship??


S300 surface-to-air missile system to Iran,
Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela

Going a little political here....

Purchasing anti-aircraft systems is not exactly an aggressive move. Yes, you can deny airspace to others, but you cannot exactly invade a country with them.



On the S-300.... there were links where Chavez declared the rockets had a range of 300km... isn't that more into S-400 territory?

Would the Russians sell the S-400?

The Brazilians desire for a long range/endurance submarine capability is understandable when you consider their growing off shore oil interests. They also have a lot of civil nuclear experience, and therefore a fair degree of of experience with reactors and fuel. Their relations with Argentina have at times been strained and Venezuela is re-equipping its air force. This deal would give Brazil the most able air force in the region. They wanted a multi role aircraft (particularly a naval strike ability) so I suppose the Rafale makes sense. I would have personally gone for the cheaper Gripen but its US technology and limited tech. transfer (although the Swedes make lovely conventional subs) would have been a disincentive. The French seem to have got themselves a Brazilian 'Al Yamamah' deal.

reply to post by FredT

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It's called offsets and what not, get over it.

It is two sovereign states doing business, which benefits both.

What do you mean, what is the cost?

The French are loaning billions to Brazil. Brazil in turn is buying French warplanes, helicopters, and subs. The French are also going to assist Brazil to develop an SSN.

So what?

I don't see what the big deal is about all this?

It's a good deal for France as it secures the first export order for the Rafale, plus they export a bunch of other stuff, and good for Brazil because they will get assistance from experienced people in SSN development.

Win win for both countries.

Really No way Yes I get that no?

If you bothered to read the OP, as I noted that how things get done. But when the US does it its decried but when the EU does it its "good business"



[edit on 9/24/09 by FredT]

This appears to me to be a case of France and Brazil replicating the transatlantic trade link that the USA and Britian already enjoy. No harm in that.

Never said there was and the business of selling jets these days goes far beyond basic offsets and the like.

Its nothing new really though Fred. Back in 1991 Boeing gave the UK a 100% offset deat to secure the RAF order for the E-3, and after the failure of the Nimrod AEW there wasn't even any competition for the deal.

One of the more interesting aspects of the arrangement is the French order for the C-390. I think the UK should at least be looking in this direction too. Ironically, when we last bought a type from Embraer, the Tucano, it was produced in the UK by Shorts, who are now wholly owned by Bombardier, Embraers biggest rival.

reply to post by FredT

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When has anyone complained?

And when countries do complain about what the US is doing, ie foreign policy, and with good reason because it often does not even taken into consideration the long term ramifications(see the Balkans and the radicalisation of muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo by jihadists fresh out of the middle east), the US doesn't listen.

I've yet to see Europe complain about US military sales and offsets to friendly countries.

Give us examples if your so confident.