TOPIC: Amish inspired, Volcano/Quake powered, Space launch systems!

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

TOPIC: Amish inspired, Volcano/Quake powered, Space launch systems!

Explanation: I saw a thread called "Wellington rocked by powerfull quake" but at 1st all I saw was "Rocket powered by quake"!

:shk:

And consequently my mind has gone off like Rocket! Having just been to another thread on clockwork houses the concept of massive springs being wound up by tectonic forces and used to launch stuff into space amused me greatly and so here we are!

Its probably totally impractical but I'm interested in the engineering and technical details along these lines.
For the purposes of this thread lets say we were all Amish Astro-Barn Builders and we need to deliver a chicken into orbit!
How could we use low tech [springs,steam etc!] powered by tectonic and or vulcanic forces to achieve this end? Jules Verne type concepts backed by science only OK!

Personal Disclosure: For those uncomfortable with the mechanics and or ethics of delivering a live chook to orbit using such a low tech approach, I recommend an unfertalized chook egg be substituted instead.

P.S. I wasn't sure where to post this but I felt its true home was here in the Science and Technology forum as I didn't think the mods would allow an Advanced Amish Aircraft Project thread to proceed! But I could be wrong and so I won't be surprised if its moved to SkunkWorks or elsewhere anytime soon!

Edited to disambiguate Jules Verne! well sorta
Edited Spelling in the 1st edit. :shk: me a
[edit on 28-8-2009 by OmegaLogos]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by OmegaLogos]

Ok
All of you Amish members give us your input.

Karl ? Hanz ? Gunter ?

Must be sleeping. 4 am comes pretty early.

reply to post by badgerprints


Hey badgerprints...you've got red on you.


Quake powered rocket, designed by the amish...yea i buy that

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Er, I donno that any Amish have a desire in goin' to space, or launching an egg headed , but hey I donno... I am amazed You thought about such a thing...... s6f

The way NASA is rolling, this may be the only quasi-civilian space program America is going to have soon.


So sad, not even funny. Sigh.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by Chakotay]

That's all the ISS needs, a slow-moving Amish rocketship in it's path displaying one of those triangle "slow-moving vehicle" reflectors.

And you thought horse-and-buggy meets semi accidents were bad...

It's going to be a difficult project no matter what but we need some basic parameters. Does the chicken have to survive and/or return to the surface? If the poultry is to remain alive, how many orbits will be required? If its state of animation is not an issue but a return is required, does the condition of the carcass matter? Should it be edible after re-entry and recovery? Do the same parameters for success apply should an ovum be selected in lieu of a fowl.


[edit on 9/2/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage

Do the same parameters for success apply should an ovum be selected in lieu of a fowl.

Ah, that is the question - which do you send into space first, the chicken or the egg?

Disclaimer: As above!

UPFRONT APOLOGY!: Sorry for neglecting this thread! As the OP I should perform a better service to my fellow ATS members! :shk: me a total

Explanation: Thanks to all who bumped this thread!

Special kudos to Phage for his inquisitive post!

Time to deoderize this skunk!

Q1] Does the chicken have to survive and/or return to the surface?

A1] Yes if its sent live [no if cooked!] and return isn't required yet for full orbital shots, but is required for sub orbital shots.

Q2] If the poultry is to remain alive, how many orbits will be required?

A2] Orbital requirement: Nil regardless of live/cooked status of payload! Lets just go for a basic straight up shot that has to reach 100km min in height as measured from sea level! If we can get there then we can worry about orbital mechanics etc.

Q3] If its state of animation is not an issue but a return is required, does the condition of the carcass matter?

A3] This is all orbital mechanics again and we don't even know if we can achieve a basic straight up suborbital space shot. But if we do get that far then yes I would want to return a live payload specimen as whole and as well as could be reasonably expected under the technical and feasability circumstances and or restrictions imposed and perscribed by my OP above.

Q4] Should it be edible after re-entry and recovery?

A4] Regardless of live/cooked prelaunch status and if we get that far then yes a recovered/recoverable uncontaminated/unadulterated usable return payload specimen would be prefered! Or we could agree to cook the specimen some how during or after lift off. It all depends how fancy we want to be and how far we want to push that envelope.

Q5] Do the same parameters for success apply should an ovum be selected in lieu of a fowl.

A5] Regardless of payload the min requirement for success is "To supply a biological specimen to a height of 100km as measured from sea level by way of a vehical/rocket designed to utilize earthquake,volcanic and mid to low tech methods."

Q6] Ah, that is the question - which do you send into space first, the chicken or the egg?

A6] Lets go the egg for starters for several reasons...1stly ethical: it can be unfertilized and that might just kybosh any moral squeemishness especially if I were to suggest a post safe return investigative autopsy!
2ndly logistically: For its inherent low mass and comes with bonus protective shell for free!

So that wraps up the important Q's that were asked! So to summarize the basic parmeters....

Payload: Unfertilized fowl egg. mass = 50grams

Orbit type: Suborbital 100km min height from sea level required.

Return payload status requirement: Recoverable and usable for experimentation. Unwanted contaminations should be kept to a minimum.

Design parameters: Seismic, Volcanic, Clockwork, Spring, Steam, Other Jules Verne types of launch systems in combo or individually. Anybody can decide and design their system and post it here and let everybody consider it and I'll post my own system for scrutiny.

Ok moving on I have noticed that the naysayers are strangely absent But just in case anybody doubts the scientific possibility and technical feasability of what I'm proposing then here is my proof of concept evidence.

1stly the Amish aren't luddites at all and can even use electricity,generators,taxis etc if approved and required. The only real kybosh to this project that I have found was under Ordnung specifically "Examples of Practices Prohibited by the Ordnung:

"air transportation" and as this is an Amish [tech] Inspired thread and NOT an Amish [law] Required thread RE: Jules Verne From the Earth to the Moon tech limitation in my OP above, this restriction is to be overruled for the purpose of this thread.

More links on Amish for those who are interested and have the time...

wiki link Amish

The Amish: Technology Practice and Technological Change

Now I began to ask myself some serious questions as to the seismic and volcanic aspects to this technical problem.

I found answers in these sources....

IMPORTANT BASIC stuff...

Escape Velocity Re: Obvious!

Big Explosions Re: Is there enough power released by these natural phenomena to be usefull?


VOLCANO stuff...

Volcanic Explosivity Index Re: Yes! Heaps!

Ejecta

wiki Ejecta Re: real analogue basis for conceptual spacecraft.

The Lunar Volcanic Theory of TektitesRe: It might be possible!

Australian StrewnfieldRe: Volcanic ejecta field?

wiki Australian Strewnfield Re: Volcanic ejecta field?

wiki Tektites RE: Possible non terrestrial volcanic ejecta.

Luna Volcanoes Re: They existed and were active...once upon a time.

Equations of motion and ballistic paths of volcanic ejecta Re: Equatorial launch gains coriolis bonus.

Strato-Volcano Re: Possible volcano type candidate for launch system.

SEISMIC stuff...

Plate Tectonics MapRe: Usefull map

Earthquake Engineering Re: Obvious!

Base Isolators: How they work Re: Going to need to know this.

Base Isolators Re: And use these!

Seismic DampenersRe: And these!

Seiemic Dampeners Patent.Re:

Tuned Mass Dampener Re: Or this!


More to come........See Next Post!

Disclaimer: As elsewhere.

Explanation: Important Info continued......

ROCKET stuff...

wiki Rockets.

wiki W. Von Braun.

Water Rocket.

Air Rocket Launcher.

wiki Multistage Rockets.

Multistage Rocket Equations

The rocket: the history and development of rocket & missile technology.

Weight minimization of a step rocket by the discrete maximum principle. Re: Interesting...I'll try get a copy.

wiki Nose Cone.

Modern Orions Heatshield.


ATOMIC stuff...

wiki 1950's Project Orion.

Atomic Rocket engines.

Learning to Contain Underground Atomic Explosions.

Operation Plumbob.

wiki Op Plumbob.

More Op Plumbob.


CLOCKWORK, SPRING & STEAM stuff...

wiki Spings various types

wiki Spring.

Springs.

wiki Clockworks.

wiki Steam.

wiki Steam engines.


ETHICAL stuff...

Animal Experiments.

*********************************************************
I've got a ton load more info but I'll give myself a break before I post anymore.

So I got creative in MSPaint and I've got this poor example as exhibit:A.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6bffbe9f4ff5.jpg[/atsimg]

Personal Disclosure: Go ATS AmishSpaceChook!

P.S. Volcanic Rocket..it draws a bead so fine....look out little spacechook...she's loaded all the time!

Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: Shameless spanking of this still stinky skunk of a thread. Go on back to the top of the recent posts page to air out some more!

Personal Disclosure: If a mod happens to read this and feels I have supplied and applied enough science to de-pong it sufficiently then I request it be re-moved back to its original forum if possible. Thanks in advance.

Explanation: This thread has sat fallow long enough!

Personal Disclosure: Arise oh Amish Space Chook!

Gonna Fly Now!

Explanation: Bumped to help generate ad revenue!

Personal Disclosure: Enjoy!