My survival plan, any advice?

Ok so I am certain that the end of 2009 going into 2010 we will need to duck. I feel like we have about six months to get ready. I will not go into detail as to why I think this because it is not the point of the thread.
I have been trying to prepare mentally, physically, spiritually and practically for about a year now. This is the idea I have come up with and I would like some advice about how to carry this idea out.
I am going to buy an Amish built storage building that will be 24 X 38. If you have seen these things they have siding, windows, shingle roofing, electric outlets and are built very well. We are do-it- yourself people and have some supplies left over from building our house. So I have drew a floor plan that has a kitchen/living room/ dinning room all open with two bedrooms to the right and with a loft above for storage or extra sleeping space. I also drew in a 5'X22' storage room to the left of the open room; the bathroom will be to right in between the kitchen and bedroom. Once we have the shed delivered we will go in and build walls and finish it out. It will be a rustic finish but will have the basics. I am going to put it on our family farm in the woods not far from the main house my mom lives in. There are fruit and nut trees, a grape orchard, plenty of garden space, a barn, an old chicken coop, an old saw mill that ain’t working, a wood shed, a tool shed full of old tools and a well house that is not working but could work if a pump was put in (but would be expensive). There is wild life and water (streams, ponds, even a river about a mile away for fishing). The thing I am worried about is electricity and plumbing. Should I put in an outhouse? How can we get water and electricity without having to get a permit and announce to the world we are there. I do not want to be on record anywhere as having this place. Should I go completely rustic and prepare to be without electric and water in the event it goes out anyway or should I prepare to go both ways so we have options, comfort but survival if needed? I will stock the storage room and cupboards with supplies and have survival stuff too like traps, guns, ammo, and bleach. We will also build a large container garden and I have seeds that we saved from this year’s garden. I thought since we won’t have gas for the mower, tiller or tractor we can keep a container garden easier. I also am going to put out big plastic barrels to catch rain water and have a couple of metal barrels to burn garbage in. Oh that reminds me we are going to put in a wood burning fireplace. There is much more too it but to save space I think yall get the idea. What do yall think?
1. Does this sound like a good idea? It doesn’t matter if you think so or not I am doing it anyway, but I would like yall’s opinion.
2. Should I go total rustic or prepare to live total rustic just in case if we have too?
3. I cannot tie into my moms electric because she only has a fuse box and could not sustain the power we will need. Know how to rig it any other way without a permit? Or how can I go solar? This is the best option IMO but I don't know how. I can tie into her water lines and make a septic tank by running a line under ground to a couple of large plastic containers.
4. We only have about $2000.00 to put into it after having the building built and we use up the materials we already have.

The plan all depends on "how bad" you expect it to get. If your talking a bit of economic downturn, then it sounds like a good plan to set-up an "off the grid" place to live with self sustaining power, food, and water just like your description. (Batteries, solar / wind, etc.)

If your expecting something "much worse" then you need to build an underground bunker (if your not in an earthquake or flood zone) with a years worth of food, complete concealment, equipment to last through a cold winter, and defense to protect your family.... with heavy emphasis on "concealment".

reply to post by infolurker


That is the thing I am not sure how bad it might get. I do not have the means to build an underground bunker. I think things will get very bad, I do not think highly populated areas will be safe. I do not know about bombs and stuff. If we are nuked it won't matter anyway. I think the economy will fall, people will loot, steal, kill for food. I think martial law will come into effect and people will be rounded up that are in the cities so they can be "taken care of" in gov't facilities. I do not think going the grocery store or pharmacy will be easy or even a reality. This is my idea of bad.

reply to post by Melissa101


Hi Melissa 101,

An underground bunker is a better idea than your idea I believe. It is easier to hide and it will protect you from stuff that another house in the trees can't possibly protect you from. But build it where you can see it from your house that you intend to live in, you can still camoflage it.

A house in a treed area will be spotted by Google satelites and everyone around will know its there. Satelite photos get better and better every decade, soon they will use radar images to see right through trees and brush just like the military looking for hidden buildings and the likes.

An underground bunker is fireproof, bullet proof, bomb proof to a certain degree and burglar proof compared to another above ground building. A CME is what you will probably need to survive from or an atomic bomb blast; both are at the extreme end of the danger spectrum and are very unlikely.

Personally, I would say save your money. If something happens in the future, a vehicle that runs and can get you and your family away from danger is your best hope. If something happens and scavenger people are searching for food in your area, you will not live, because you cannot be awake 24/7; they will get you sooner or later whether you have food or not. Buy an older vehicle and keep it in good running condition, it must not have any computer electronics in it. Buy a gun and lots of ammo and know how to use it and keep it in good condition. Good luck on your outcome.

reply to post by Melissa101


I think you're off to a very good start. From how you describe your surroundings it appears that you have quite a bit of useful resources.

Bottom line is hope to keep electricity and water lines going as long as possible. In the in between you should start to cache as much water as possible and well without electricity, I'm sure your able to start a fire, so look for alternative methods for heat.

Good luck.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Thanks, good advise. I have thought of the Google earth thing, not only that but the govt has a much more advanced "ggogle earth" than what we are aware of. I have a feeling the Gov't will fall too, so I am not worried about them as much as like you said scavengers. So you think living in a truck or car with lots of ammo is the way to go? What about fuel? Fuel will run out. Being a southern girl I think I can trap the area pretty good to catch any invaiders, LOL... I do not plan on living in this thing untill SHTF I plan on taking the 4 wheel drive and going to our safe place when the time comes. We will stay in our house untill then.

reply to post by OnTheFelt


Thanks, that is the way I was thinking. Keep the electricity and water as long as possible. Yea our source of heat will be a fire but down here in the south it gets sooooooo hot and humid but my grandparents never had air conditioning so I think we could live without it, just don't want to but survival is the goal not luxury.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Melissa101]

Originally posted by Melissa101
Ok so I am certain that the end of 2009 going into 2010 we will need to duck. I feel like we have about six months to get ready. I will not go into detail as to why I think this because it is not the point of the thread.
I have been trying to prepare mentally, physically, spiritually and practically for about a year now. This is the idea I have come up with and I would like some advice about how to carry this idea out.
I am going to buy an Amish built storage building that will be 24 X 38. If you have seen these things they have siding, windows, shingle roofing, electric outlets and are built very well. We are do-it- yourself people and have some supplies left over from building our house. So I have drew a floor plan that has a kitchen/living room/ dinning room all open with two bedrooms to the right and with a loft above for storage or extra sleeping space. I also drew in a 5'X22' storage room to the left of the open room; the bathroom will be to right in between the kitchen and bedroom. Once we have the shed delivered we will go in and build walls and finish it out. It will be a rustic finish but will have the basics. I am going to put it on our family farm in the woods not far from the main house my mom lives in. There are fruit and nut trees, a grape orchard, plenty of garden space, a barn, an old chicken coop, an old saw mill that ain’t working, a wood shed, a tool shed full of old tools and a well house that is not working but could work if a pump was put in (but would be expensive). There is wild life and water (streams, ponds, even a river about a mile away for fishing). The thing I am worried about is electricity and plumbing. Should I put in an outhouse? How can we get water and electricity without having to get a permit and announce to the world we are there. I do not want to be on record anywhere as having this place. Should I go completely rustic and prepare to be without electric and water in the event it goes out anyway or should I prepare to go both ways so we have options, comfort but survival if needed? I will stock the storage room and cupboards with supplies and have survival stuff too like traps, guns, ammo, and bleach. We will also build a large container garden and I have seeds that we saved from this year’s garden. I thought since we won’t have gas for the mower, tiller or tractor we can keep a container garden easier. I also am going to put out big plastic barrels to catch rain water and have a couple of metal barrels to burn garbage in. Oh that reminds me we are going to put in a wood burning fireplace. There is much more too it but to save space I think yall get the idea. What do yall think?
1. Does this sound like a good idea? It doesn’t matter if you think so or not I am doing it anyway, but I would like yall’s opinion.
2. Should I go total rustic or prepare to live total rustic just in case if we have too?
3. I cannot tie into my moms electric because she only has a fuse box and could not sustain the power we will need. Know how to rig it any other way without a permit? Or how can I go solar? This is the best option IMO but I don't know how. I can tie into her water lines and make a septic tank by running a line under ground to a couple of large plastic containers.
4. We only have about $2000.00 to put into it after having the building built and we use up the materials we already have.

is this about the 2012?..

reply to post by 2Unknown


No 2Unknown, it is not about 2012. It will start before 2012 IMHO. See I believe in the Bible and all the signs that are given to us about the end of days are playing out right in front of us. It to me is like watching a movie after reading the book. I do not claim to know when the world will end or when Christ will return but I do know that the 7 year tribulation is upon us. I feel like we must prepare for the things the Bible tells us will happen. I believe if you are hearing the call you must prepare like the Bible says to or you will not live through the tribulation. I think that the 2012 theory is a distraction from the real thing. And that people who are unaware of what the Bible teaches will be thrown off course by the 2012 date. There is no denying something is going on in our world today and those who lack knowlegde of the Bible have to have some way to explain it. I guess the question you asked is a fairly deep one but this short answer I hope helps clarify it for you.

Many are going to have to realize that they don't have enough time or money to implement their best laid plans. The lessons of Anne Frank for instance, are more realistic. Improvise with what you have. Do you have a shovel? Crawl space, basement? Start digging and fortify is my advice.

reply to post by Melissa101


Hi Melissa,

One can never tell what strange bend will occur within ones future. The vehicle I wrote of is only a vehicle that will get you to an area of safety if an EMP bomb explodes in space and takes out all electrical equipment for a thousand miles or so radius. Everyone else with modern electronics in their vehicles will be on foot, and they will kill anyone and everyone, because food will be hard to get since all traffic will be at a stand still except for people with older vehicles without elecrtronic fuel injection. The vehicle must be manual, not automatic. That way you can always start it just by push starting it if the battery is bad.

Older smaller Russian nukes took out electrical stuff 800 miles away decades ago when they were making tests; now they are much more powerful. Militaries will use EMP explosions to shut down massive areas electronically before they invade.

Save your money my friend. You and your family will survive, but you must be able to be mobile instead of being trapped in a specific area. Mobility will be the best thing to have in bad times, simply because you will be able to move where you are sure it is safe, and to where there is food and water. There is always shelter some place else where you will be able to stay if times do get bad. People on foot will be extremely dangerous.

What interpretation from the Bible makes you think the Bible is telling us something is going to happen soon?

[edit on 21-8-2009 by RussianScientists]

reply to post by RussianScientists


Oh Ok got ya, that makes more since now. thank you for clarifying. How probable do you think this senerio is? I have not thought of this one yet.

reply to post by Melissa101


An EMP explosion is highly probable if there is a war, otherwise it is highly improbable. A CME, Coronal Mass Ejection is possible and could do similar stuff to electronics in or around 2012, but at the same time it would cook stuff at the surface of the Earth with tremendous winds from the solar winds.

What in the Bible makes you think these are the end times? or bad times?

I think that if you stay tuned into ATS you will have a jump on anything that could happen in the future. ATS members stick together pretty good and can be relyed upon if something bad is to happen in the future. I don't see anything bad happening in the near future though.

I think you should not spend your money on survival stuff. I think you should go out and enjoy life with your family and forget about survival crap, because you just store up stuff and it gets old and takes up space and costs you money that you don't need to spend and it becomes out-dated and becomes worth less and less.

Enjoy your family.

Ok there is a way to get power from your mother's ( I think you said) without pulling power from her actual house. That's really all I can tell you because what I know is illegal and that is against the rules here. You can most likely search google or yahoo in order to find ways to get free and unknown power from another building without having the meter catch it. Good luck and let me know if you need anymore hints on how to find it.

Oh and P.S. I hope you know an electrician because the method is rather dangerous!

IMHO. 6 months is optimistic.
I would put in an old (or new--the Amish make really good stuff) wood cook stove.
As for water, a good old fashioned well would work without power, and even an indoor outhouse works---trust me, I have friends who use one in the winter VERY far from civilization, and too cold in the winter for running water in the house----with a 5 gallon bucket of water to refill the flush tank.
You do have to change your habits a bit using it though. "If it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down and refill the bucket with water", as the saying goes. Forgo the shower and opt for a tub, as it is easy to boil hot water if the power is out.
A 55 gallon barrel of kerosene, a hand pump, and some lamps are pretty cheap, as well as some solar yard lights----you can find them for a $ @ some discount or dollar stores. Southern exposure, 13 yard lights, and a deep cycle 12 volt marine or RV battery, and only basic electronics knowledge and a couple dollars in parts will give you days of radio, or a few hours of TV on a 12 volt television (available at truck stops) every night.
Buy a bunch of those plastic containers (The 3' x 2' x 2' high ones at every wallmart) and fill them full of basics for cheap----flour, rice, beans, top ramen if you wish) and "luxury and barter items" like coffee, cheap booze, seasonings---whatever you think would be good and currently cheap barter items that might be hard to come by if TSHTF. You can stack them from floor to ceiling an corners and take up very little room, and as they have seal-able tops, keep the critters out.
Weapons.
Even if you are adverse to, or hate them, meat will be very nice. A 22 rifle will keep you from starving, as even possum and squirrel are edible, and even tasty given the method of seasoning and cooking, if you can get over the aversion of eating what some would classify as "vermin".

You will after a month of beans and rice.

Personally, I would have enough firepower to defend my stash from wandering, starving folk who would rather take someone else's food and shelter than provide for themselves, but that is just me. A bow or knowledge of traps and snares would work if you are a "peacenik" no offense intended, and everything you need to know about basic survival is here:
stevespages.com...
(Taken from another thread) Just copy and paste in a browser.
Gives you all the basic knowledge of how to survive, treat medical conditions, determine what is edible, build shelters, fires, snares and traps etc. ad infinatum.

What I have described would be considered a "luxury retreat" in good times, and if you go about provisioning it and building it with that mindset, even if the world turns out to be just peachy, and all is well, you don't loose anything, but gain a peaceful retreat---no matter the outside world conditions.
Hope it helps.

reply to post by RussianScientists

A great website that explains how the 5 of the 7 trumpets have already sounded in Revelations is Endtimes.com
Watch the video about the 7 trumpets.

I would definitely look into digging a well for your water supply. There are a lot of how-to's to be found on google.

How to dig a well

With a well you will not have to worry about water for quite a while. You should also create an activated charcoal water filter in case the well runs dry, or something happens to it. Use the filter to remove heavy metals and chemicals from rivers and lakes, and then boil the water to kill microorganisms such as Giardia and Crypto, as well as other microorganisms. For a pinch get a Katadyn pump water purifier. If you are worried about NBC events, then also get iodine tablets, which (allegedly) can remove small amounts of radioactivity in water.

With water covered, you next need to worry about food. Setting up in a forest setting is a great start. The worlds forests are natures restaurants. There is plenty of food available if you know what to look for.

Being in a forest setting however, you will need to concider things like wild animals such as bears, panthers, moose and even cougars in some areas. Be sure to secure your food appropriately. Also consider things like bugs, spiders, snakes, and alligators (if you're near the Florida Everglades like I am)

You may also want to get a book on natural remedies and medicinal plants. I have a small guide written by Pocket naturalist from Waterford Press. It contains most of the widespread species that are common to most areas.

Always be sure to have many different means to create fire. Learn how to use a bow and drill, have a magnifier glass available just in case. Have plenty of flint and steel available. You can even use a car battery to create fire.

The next thing is power. There are several different types of Solar/Wind type systems available. Normally these systems collect power from the sun/wind in a DC format, and store that power in batteries. There are a few differences in the power output supplied however. You can get a cheap DC based system that will run DC appliances. DC appliances are the kind that have car cigarette lighter plugs. You can find many (if not all) common appliances that run on these systems. Check out an RV store for a nice selection. DC systems are cheaper because you do not need an expensive inverter in order to make the power usable.

Now if you are looking for something that will run normal "house plug" type appliances, you will be spending a bit more on the system. You will need to get an inverter to switch the power from DC to AC. There are several different types of AC inverters which will create different types of "Sine wave" outputs. Sine wave outputs are what mimic what the power company puts across its main lines, and what powers home that are on the grid. Inverters use a few methods to "mimic" these patterns. A "pure sine wave" inverter will run all normal plugged in appliances, and are the more expensive of the inverters. They are often 75% more expensive then their "modified sine wave" counterparts. The modified sine wave inverters may cause clocks to not keep correct time, and may not be suitable to charge cheaper batteries correctly. A DC only based solar array can be purchased for a little under $1000 dollars. The AC based systems will cost you much more. There are even systems that include a generator for times when the weather is not suitable for generating the needed power.

The next thought is camouflage. You can get some of the army style over top camo that they widely used to conceal tanks and planes. This will offer at least a little bit of concealment. As other have suggested however, satellites running UV or Infra-red can probably see right through that.



That is about all I can think of at the moment.

-xmad

[edit on 21-8-2009 by xmaddness]

There are bunkers and there are bunkers. You don't need to build a bona fide blast-proof structure like the word "bunker" suggests. It doesn't have to have armor plated doors or anything. A shallow underground shelter will do, you just have to make sure it's dry (might be a challenge) and there is an air filtration system. This can be constructed on a tight budget. It's also easy to conceal. I'd vote for solar panels as power source (now these are harder to conceal

Thank you everyone for all the advice. I appreciate the insite, information and links.

If rivers or streams are close enough and move fast enough, you could possibly utilize hydroelectric to some degree. A paddlewheel geared up enough to run a generator of some sort could be an option. If the water always flows then you'll be all set.

You could just go minimal and get a few small portable solar panels and a stockpile of rechargeable batteries, and just limit your electrical usage to LED lights and small, low power devices.