Tommy Douglas and How Canada got Health Care

Tommy, can you HEAR me...?

Tommy Douglas, the GREATEST CANADIAN

When considering the giants of Canadian politics, T.C. Douglas surely stands at the forefront. Tommy Douglas was a remarkable Canadian whose contributions have helped to shape our great nation. Although he is most famous as the founding father of Medicare, the most advanced health-care system in the world, Douglas’ contributions to Saskatchewan and Canada were tremendous. Douglas established democratic socialism as a mainstream in Canadian politics and his CCF government became the first socialist government in North America. A visionary who achieved his dreams, Douglas changed the face of Canadian politics. More importantly, Tommy Douglas was a politician who put the good of the people he represented first and foremost.
www.cupe1975.ca...

Oh, oh... socialism! Better get out the assault rifles, hand grenades and ready the FEMA camps. Them there's fightin' words!

Here's the way it was before Tommy got busy:

Various types of health insurance were available in Canada before the CCF government assumed power. There were many doctor-sponsored plans by non-profit organizations as well as private insuring agencies, to which many Canadians subscribed. In some cases, Canadians were provided with health insurance through the terms of their employment. Thus many Canadians had some form of insurance protection. The sick and needy were admitted to hospitals as charity cases. But there were many inequities in the medical care system, as some plans covered only hospital visits or physician care but not drugs or treatment.
www.mta.ca...

Sound familiar?

The fight was on:

The North American medical establishment tried to defy Medicare, Douglas’s top priority project, and Saskatchewan became an intense battleground. This turbulent time was marked by the doctors' strike as the physicians of the province protested socialized health care. However, the striking doctors were no match for Douglas. When the dust settled with the resolution of the strike, Medicare in Saskatchewan was born.
new-canadian.blogspot.com...

Not long afterwards, Tommy's plan was adopted across the country.

Hurrah!!!

Now, the simple talk:

Douglas showed Canada two things: that it was possible to develop and finance a universal Medicare system and that the medical profession could be confronted.
new-canadian.blogspot.com...

Too bad he's not around to speak up on the issue for Americans.

Douglas died of cancer on February 24, 1986 at the age of 81 in Ottawa.
en.wikipedia.org...

Now for some real Canadian spin from a great Canadian band... enjoy the lyrics.

The Canadian Dream - Sam Roberts



No, we've not turned into n. Korea yet.



Replaced vid with a better version and deleted useless words

[edit on 12/8/09 by masqua]

[edit on 12/8/09 by masqua]

Way to go.Two sides to every story and all that. I do not care what it is called, as long as I get treated without going in debt for twenty years.

I don't know why Americans are so afraid of Socialism...

(Maybe the 60 years Red Scare/Cold War Brainwashing and false propaganda..--..maybe)


Good for you Canada...
Tommy Douglas..Canadian Hero (i reckon)..


[edit on 12-8-2009 by Next_Heap_With]

It's all about the proper mix... like a good martini.

Pour 3 shots of good capitalism in a glass

Dribble a few drops of socialism in with it (not too much)

Shake well

Live well

And his grandson is pretty cute too....Keifer Sutherland.

Seriously, Tommy Douglas is my all time hero. Of course it was a different time back then. Maybe Obama could have done a better job on bringing this forward if he had of studied Tommy Douglas and the hell he went through.

reply to post by Next_Heap_With


Darn right Canadian Hero. AND Jack Bauer's Grandaddy...ironic?


Canadian government health care is not perfect, but it's damn good. In my 36 years i've not had any problems (of course, i'm not a hypochondriac either). I've had surgeries, hospital stays, outpatient services, titanium in my leg, screws removed from my leg and several different types of meds.

The big problem with socialized healthcare (sorry to use the "s" word), frankly is corporatalism. If big pharma weren't so greedy and selfish (no, they don't care about you...or research and development) our canadian healthcare system would be doing better than it is now.

To all those of you south of the border...you live in one of the only industrialized countries in the world where the government does not pay for a signifigant (if not all) amount of healthcare.

the USA ranks 45th in the world for life expectancy
bosnia herzegovina ranks 42nd
Canada ranks 14th.
puerto rico (a US territory) ranks 41
Jordan ranks 40.

I wonder who is profiting most from the low US life expectancy?
(sorry, last comment was biting, but nonetheless makes a point)

wikipedia

reply to post by Tamale_214


Absolutely! The system in Canada isn't perfect at all. The fact that it is under attack by corporations and different ruling governments all the time is no secret. On top of that is the sheer volume of doctors and nurses heading south for the BIG MONEY to be had in the States. That's troublesome. I guess nearly a quarter million a year is chump change when compared to an office in the USA.

There's other problems, like a government that mismanaged the Chalk River facility, where so much of the worlds radio isotopes were produced, but let's not get into that (yet ).

Having raised two boys, my wife and I had to deal with LOTS of broken arms, ribs and legs because hockey, soccer and baseball is the bomb here in rural Canada. I also have a steel rod insert in (my) leg from knee to ankle. There's been various other ailments over the past half century, but it never drained my bank account yet and I doubt it ever will.

Did it cost me overall? Damn straight. I paid it in my yearly taxes so I never felt like it was a handout.

Thanks, Tommy... you're a peach.

sp

[edit on 12/8/09 by masqua]

No system is perfect, but I'd never give up what we have now in Canada. There could be tweaking done, but overall I'm quite happy with it.

Put it this way, if I were vacationing in America, say Disney Land, and I somehow amputated both legs above the knee after falling onto the tracks of Space Mountain... I'd stitch my gaping wounds using my own shoe laces and then drag my bleeding stumps back across the boarder before I'd even consider subjecting myself to the American health care system.

Viva democratic socialism!

Originally posted by masqua
Thanks, Tommy... you're a peach.

Which goes to explain how our 'Godless Socialists' are valuable in opposition, even if we wouldn't necessarily like them at the helm. I like them with just enough juice to serve as an official conscience to the government.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Couldn't have said it better myself, Johnny Canuck.

Whenever our Health Care system bears the brunt of too much criticism, all it takes is a few barbed threats coming from the New Democrats and the Canadian media goes haywire.

I remember when they actually got elected in Ontario and the fall-out from that still resonates. All one needs do is whisper Rae Days in a crowded place (like Toronto) and the stampede is on. No way I want a repeat of that.

as a canadian i can say that if it were not for our system, and if i had been born an american i would probably not be in the same shape i am now to say the least, and my dad would definitely be 100% dead as i speak right now

sure we have to pay some more in taxes, but it is not a big deal because health >>> money

i think americans are up in arms over this because, they know that their dollars are not going to be spent properly, so any sort of spending is out of the case, health care, bailout, or otherwise, the crooks are in charge and cant be trusted

however in canada, we still have some transparency in our government, and we have some faith that our dollars are not spent in waste, especially in the health system, we do have long wait times, but i have 100% faith when i go to the hospital, i will get whatever care i need

also, if i lose my job, i will get care via blue cross or other agencies

i think if americans could have faith in a health system (ie not selective/genocidal health care, but universal health care) they would be 100% for it, however it wont work as long as their system is based off of profit

health care can not go hand in hand with profit

anyone who has watched sicko knows how this works, in sicko they took sick americans to canada, france, cuba, where they promptly received health care and medicine

no matter what american MSM says, our systems here are not as bad as americans are being led to believe (big surprise..)

reply to post by Next_Heap_With


Because currently socialism is not being put forth. Just expansive government.

It really is irony, wouldn't you say though? So many Americans love Jesus, yet God forbid the government do as they believe?

Grandma always said Jesus was the first socialist. He was.

Socialism is not bad. But when governments use it as an excuse to enlarge themselves, it is. And that is what they are doing right now.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Couldn't have said it better myself, Johnny Canuck.
I remember when they actually got elected in Ontario and the fall-out from that still resonates. All one needs do is whisper Rae Days in a crowded place (like Toronto) and the stampede is on. No way I want a repeat of that.

Couple of interesting points about Rae Days, though. Being in the Public-ish Service, I got hit by them but they were structured so as to be painless, so anything I felt, I could rationalise that I was helping my workmates retain their jobs.

But the NDP was elected during a serious recession and nobody could have done any better. They have been slammed for trying to spend their way out of it...same as was tried in the 30's, but nobody knew if it would work then because WW2 kicked in an economic recovery. And now? I'm in the middle of writing a 1.2 mil stimulus grant application. So that we can spend our way out of a recession.

Finally, I knew NDP candidates during that election, and party members were flipping coins to see who would have to run. There was nobody more surprised than them when they got power!

So...I tend to look back on those days with a bit of kindness towards the pinkos.

I don't want to go too far afield discussing the modern New Democrats, but I feel I should answer these two points of yours.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Couple of interesting points about Rae Days, though. Being in the Public-ish Service, I got hit by them but they were structured so as to be painless, so anything I felt, I could rationalise that I was helping my workmates retain their jobs.

As a carrer worker in the nuclear industry, I too was affected by the Rae Days. However, my impact was a bit harsher, not only in lost wages, but very nearly my career. When Bob Rae became firmly entrenched in the Ontario Legislature, he had as his primary consultant a person by the name of Maurice Strong (google him for some interesting info). Mr. Strong, who was subsequently placed at the helm of Ontario Hydro decided that the company required major restructuring since it was set up essentially as a 'not-for-profit' system. Mr. Strong took it upon himself to hire American advisors, from such companies as the TVA, to have a look at what could be done. After a long protracted horrorshow of actions taken by this NDP appointed person, in cahoots with foreign interests who obviously had much to gain in the cross-border sale of electricity, the largest nuclear facility in the world wound up being sold off to British Energy after half of its capacity was shut down for no good reason at all.

British Energy in short order, had, for reasons UK residents will remember, decided to sell off THEIR foreign interests and, once again, my career was up for sale.

Maurice Strong, when asked why he did what he did, came out with a statement which, paraphrased, said: "If you have to fix something, you have to break it first."

Lovely.

btw... the private company which finally put the worlds largest nuclear power facility back in business is Bruce Power, re-energised by the canny Scot Duncan Hawthorne, past employee of British Energy, aided by the funds of a few Canadian firms who were willing to put a new radiator in the BNPD Cadillac.

That was MY experience with the NDP. If there ever was a socialist provincial government which sided with Big Corporations, it was the Bob Rae government.

Finally, I knew NDP candidates during that election, and party members were flipping coins to see who would have to run. There was nobody more surprised than them when they got power!

Exactly... and the person who Bob Rae looked to for guidance most was Maurice Strong.

What came after Mr. Strong left and the Americans were left in charge:

Farlinger - whose priority after replacing Maurice Strong as Ontario Hydro chairman was to push the utility towards privatization - does not hope to make converts of nuclear skeptics. "I think Ontario Hydro is seen as a bad company. And it has been a bad company," he says. "Are we wasting money trying to fix nuclear? I don’t believe we are." According to Farlinger, the Hydro board, a hefty group of 18 men and women, finally awoke to the fact that the monster utility was in real trouble in April last year when Pickering discovered a flaw in its emergency safety system. All eight reactors were shut down. "I think everyone on the board knew we had real problems then," he says.

www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com...

Other developments, with an eerie echo:

In 1990, Strong told a reporter a fantasy scenario for the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland - where 1,000 diplomats, CEOs and politicians gather "to address global issues."

Strong, naturally, is on the board of the World Economic Forum. "What if a small group of these world leaders were to conclude the principal risk to the earth comes from the actions of the rich countries?...

In order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring this about?"

-snip-

Maurice Strong: A Dr. Evil-style strategist. Owner of a 200,000-acre New Age Zen colony. Designer of a proposal to "consider" requiring licences to have babies.

The architect of the Kyoto Protocol.

www.taxtyranny.ca...

His current clout:

The IMF and the World Bank (to be discussed in future reports) work closely with the United Nations, but are not subject to its direct administrative control. One of the major recommendations of the Commission on Global Governance calls for the creation of an new Economic Security Council to oversee the operations of a new administrative department of the United Nations where all international financial mechanisms would be housed. Maurice Strong, now the Executive Coordinator for U.N. reform, said in his first report , that all 130 U.N. related agencies and organizations were being consolidated into five administrative departments, one of which would include the IMF, the World Bank and all its subsidiaries, the Global Environment Facility, and the U.N. Development Program.
www.mikenew.com...

Various blogger views:

warofillusions.wordpress.com...
www.mail-archive.com...@yahoogroups.com/msg57734.html
www.freerepublic.com...
ipsnews.net...

Originally posted by masqua
As a carrer worker in the nuclear industry, I too was affected by the Rae Days...What came after Mr. Strong left and the Americans were left in charge:

I'm no fan of Strong, and as for the Americans...they became part of the 'cult of arrogance' of the Nuclear division. You ever see the plant manager have to apologise to a room full of average citizens for their bad attitude?

I'm sure it was the worst day of his life, and that he left looking for a dog to kick.

Just to say that the NDP were not up for the job at the time, and they knew it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
You ever see the plant manager have to apologise to a room full of average citizens for their bad attitude?

As a matter of fact, yes. Not for their bad attitudes, but for the chain of events beyond their control. I was sitting in the front row when the plant manager explained why our facility was being shut down. There were tears in his eyes and they weren't crocodile tears.

Just to say that the NDP were not up for the job at the time, and they knew it.

Can't agree with you more.

Now, to get back to Tommy Douglas and why he should be discussed in relation to the issue of Health Care in America.

I'm sure there's a good lesson to be had on how it was done. Like Sask., if a state, like the province, decided to go that route, I'm sure, once the dust settled and people saw how it could work, it would only be a matter of time before it became adopted across the country.

Obama may be putting the cart before the horse and needs to give each state the power to make such a change.

(just a thought)