"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I absolutely agree. Obama is tearing the country apart anyway, it seems better to try to expose him for what he is and get it over with rather than have it drag out till the end of his term.

The MSM will never go against him. The ultimate responsibility for us being in this mess lies with them since they were so starry eyed over Obama they failed to properly vett him. They will lose all credibility (whats left anyway) with the rest of America if he is exposed. I saw an article today stating he has made Israel angry and they may come out with the information the Mossad has on him.

I think we should somehow petition other nations to come to our rescue in this situation. Seems nobody here will have the intestinal fortitude to do it. I am sure the security services of Great Britain, France, Germany, Israel, and who knows else has the goods on him. I think it is fairly obvious at this point that the revelation of his true past will finish him almost instantly.
Could be our friends in other nations may be the only way to get us out of this mess.

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by Rockpuck
At any time in history when enough people decided on new ideas,

What I am considering is that this is the first time in history where the only new ideas people are exposed to are through marketing efforts.

The public isn't being told anymore...they are being suggested.

That has never changed...

Be it in the form of pamphlets (propaganda technique from as far back as the 1st century..) or through televised news or independent websites.. propaganda has never changed.

Anyone expecting eternal Utopia as a sign "The People have Won" knows nothing of politics or the Human aspect of politics I should say...

When we can expand upon that, perhaps then, we would have a debate on the proper form of Government.. until then, we have the system that's in place.. Truly, I am at a loss you two don't understand what I am meaning.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by expat2368


Did you read the thread...or perhaps even the opening post?

Pogo: We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us

Although it is easy to blame one party or the other, or both, in reality, the problem is much more basic. The problem is that mankind is predisposed to playing "King of the Hill". From the time that early man started to encounter reduced resources to eat, and resorted to killing each other for those reduced resources, to the present day, where essentially we do the same thing, but with more technology, we are the enemy.

Throughout history, even those civilizations that managed a modicum of peace, were eventually overrun by those that wanted what the successful ones had.
Changing the form of government, or making new laws will not end it. Even if 99% of the world made peace with each other, and accepted their plight or position, there would always be those that would continue that "hunter and gatherer" of others goods. It has been that way for eons, and nothing has happened to change that nature of mankind.

Pogo was very wise.

reply to post by expat2368


WOW, somebody missed not just the step but a whole flight of stairs on the real meaning of this thread.

I think that post illustrates exactly what the OP was talking about, case point made.

reply to post by 5 oClock

I'll donate to abolish the lobbyist with our own lobbyist. Will that work

Unfortunately no.
Nobody would even consider it. Even if you HAD a ton of money behind it.

It wouldn't be a good investment. It would dry up all of the future backdoor deals.

It is a conundrum. But it isn't new. People just delude themselves into thinking this doesn't exist at all.

A catch22. Whatever you want to call it. The only way out is through revolution.
They come and go from time to time. It is high time for another.

reply to post by JayinAR

A catch22. Whatever you want to call it. The only way out is through revolution. They come and go from time to time. It is high time for another.

Please explain to me how that is any different from the present crew in power. They wage war through power and money, and you believe that waging revolution will end the strife?

You have just proven my point in my previous thread.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I misinterpreted it also.
Perhaps it was the choice of a thread title.

In any event, if the OPs remarks are true, then there is very little choice left other than serious action of some kind.

Which isn't too far off of what the poster, who you are throwing under the bus, is saying.


[edit on 11-8-2009 by JayinAR]

To read this from the standpoint of a insider is disheartening and yet when one of us points this out we are ridiculed and told if we don't like it to leave it.I guess people would much rather believe that our representatives actually work for us,despite all the evidence to the contrary.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I didn't say *violent* revolution.

There are other types. A renaissance of thought is more acceptable.
It isn't hard to misinterpret things.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by JayinAR]

I am nothing if not practical.

Can we begin by identifying the lobbyists who are wielding such power?

I offer:

Blue Cross
The Phamaceitical Corporations
The Oil companies.

Let's start somewhere. Or has it gone so far it doesn't matter anymore?

reply to post by expat2368


I'm sure France would jump at the chance to come to our aid now that we are back to acknowledging French Fries as opposed the Freedom variety.

Unfortunately, my keyboard does not offer enough letters to respond to the balance of absurd claims in that post.

A fantastic thread on a very deep, multifaceted expose of politic, power and the frustration of the author, the OP, the SO. In doing so he also quite finely describes the current ridiculous manufactured argument that maligns the potential of systemic greatness.

While I exist I am aware of at least the potential of individual greatness. I know there are other people, who in their individual moments of necessity, acheive greatness. I know that there are like minded individuals that can form, even unconsciously, groups of purposeful action.

There must be, therefore, the opportunity for combined greatness.

What will be your, my or our moment of necessity?

reply to post by schrodingers dog


The government of this country is beyond repair and deep down all of you know it.

They spend like there is no tomorrow why? because there isn't

All I read here at ATS is intellegent people trying to out intellectualize each other and guess what, nothing gets done.

I have a simple solution, unleash the fishwives!
It has always been the chore of the working class to achive balance.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
knows nothing of politics or the Human aspect of politics I should say...

I am trying to say that politics is not predicated upon just politics. It necessarily is an extension of our social structure and as such is currently engulfed in varying levels of comprehension and motivation.

As an example, the following is employed around the public's awareness:

In group settings, the Delphi Technique is an unethical method of achieving consensus on controversial topics. It requires well-trained professionals, known as "facilitators" or "change agents," who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against another to make a preordained viewpoint appear "sensible," while making opposing views appear ridiculous.

The Delphi Technique

There are many other subtle tricks using the power of words and manipulating the social inclinations of individuals..."The People" don't really have a chance.

It is kinda odd in a way (well to me)....I mean most of us already knew this anyways (or at least postulated it), but hearing it from one of our very own on ATS whom we all know we can trust is just like the "icing on the cake". I guess I would analogize it to many actually seeing an alien for the first time, we all are pretty sure they exist somewhere, but to actually beyond a doubt get conformation would be, to say the least, paradigm shattering.

Anyways, as many have already pointed out, what really can we do at this point? It kind of seems endgame doesn't it? In my opinion it will take something major and half way miraculous to turn around what appears to be the eventual collapse of the USA, or at best the total change over from Democracy to a Feudal society.

reply to post by Springer

TERM LIMITS, it's the only way to "clean house". As long as we have career politicians in the Senate and the House we are going to get what we have...

I have to disagree, strongly, term limits have not worked here to improve the basic working of government.
its been my experience, since weve had term limits here, is that all you get is a never ending parade of people who are always looking to step up the ladder.
They never hold one position long enough to actually be able to get things done. They almost always march in lock step with the party line, because they need the support of the party to fund the never ending campaign for the next office after they term out.

reply to post by JayinAR

I didn't say *violent* revolution.

Nor did I. A revolution is a radical change of one sort or another. The very fact that you want a radical change is to challenge the current powers, and by definition, you are now playing their game. In this game of survival or king of the hill, there are no rules, there are no "good" or "bad" approaches. There is only strife and conflict.

As the computer program at the end of the movie "Wargames" said, there is only ONE solution- choose not to play the game.

Closely aligned with this inherent propensity of mankind for conflict is Hegel's dialectic. Every conflict results in the playing out of that dialectic-
Thesis
Antithesis
Synthesis

Only when man can ascend above the animal nature of this inherent propensity, can this chain be broken.

Even mankind's attempts at religion as an answer has fallen victim to this inherent drive.
Could religion have been an answer? Well, to this point, it certainly has not avoided the propensity for conflict. Look at the world today.

Is religion the cause of conflict? No, I don't think so. Instead, I think that man's inherent conflict has so far destroyed any possibility to break the chains.

Man is an extremely imperfect being, and although mankind has progressed technologically, its propensity for conflict has progressed even faster, as technology has enabled much more damage to be done to any attempt to ascend in a pure or spiritual way.

A massive peaceful demonstrations might facilitate change. They stopped a war once.

But in reality, I can't see a demonstration remainingg peaceful. Look what happened in Iran.

reply to post by MemoryShock


Yes, I agree except at one point. Almost... if any actually.. no revolution has taken place with the support of the majority.. usually its a small portion of the people forcing change.

Basically you could think of it as replacing a minority that tells the people how to live with another minority telling the people how to live. Once the new functions are in place you say "this is how its going to be" and they go on with life. So long as they don't come out with less than the previous government, they are content.

Its just a matter of who grabs power.. those with selfish desires, or those seeking only to further the ideas of freedom from government? If its truly a righteous cause, to revert back to our origins, regardless of the level of open support, I would support it. And the dissent doesn't need to be vocal... many people imo are mad as hell, but would never say so..

Ps. No disrespect was ever intended