Let's discuss what's in the Health Care Bill

Originally posted by mikerussellus
The difference though, is that YOU get to decide vs the government. It all comes down to who do you want to make the decisions? You? A family member? Or THE COMMISSIONER?

I do agree though, needless surgeries can create costs for all of us.

But you can't decide now.

The insurance adjuster decides.

Take a look at countries with established national health care programs. You can still get botox injections in all of them. They're just not covered. You have the choice, and you can pay for it. No one seems to be talking about shutting down clinics that offer such services - they're not shut down anywhere else in the world. They're just not covered.

On the other hand, in those situations where plastic surgery is required - like after a disfiguring accident - you are covered in full, because it's a necessity. That's how it works in Canada, at least.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by mikerussellus
The difference though, is that YOU get to decide vs the government. It all comes down to who do you want to make the decisions? You? A family member? Or THE COMMISSIONER?

I do agree though, needless surgeries can create costs for all of us.

But you can't decide now.

The insurance adjuster decides.

Take a look at countries with established national health care programs. You can still get botox injections in all of them. They're just not covered. You have the choice, and you can pay for it. No one seems to be talking about shutting down clinics that offer such services - they're not shut down anywhere else in the world. They're just not covered.

On the other hand, in those situations where plastic surgery is required - like after a disfiguring accident - you are covered in full, because it's a necessity. That's how it works in Canada, at least.

You can decide. It's just whether or not insurance will pay for it. This whole "denial of treatment" is a lie. You just have to PAY for the treatment if insurance won't cover you.

Where with the government plan, they decide whether or not you get the treatment regardless of cost, or who pays. There is a rationing.

Give me a few minutes/an hour. I will read more of this bill. I have tried to be fair in my interpretation, and so have the others that are contributing.

Something I don't see listed in the claims that Redhatty posted in the OP but that I think needs to be mentioned is this from pages 97-98:

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR NON-MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which individuals who are Exchange-eligible individuals described in sub paragraph (B) are automatically enrolled under an appropriate Exchange-participating health benefits plan. Such process may involve a random assignment or some other form of assignment that takes into account the health care providers used by the individual involved or such other relevant factors as the Commissioner may specify.
(B) SUBSIDIZED INDIVIDUALS DESCRIBED.—An individual described in this subparagraph is an Exchange-eligible individual who is either of the following:
(i) AFFORDABILITY CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—The individual—
(I) has applied for, and been determined eligible for, affordability credits under subtitle C;
(II) has not opted out from receiving such affordability credit; and
(III) does not otherwise enroll in another Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
(ii) INDIVIDUALS ENROLLED IN A TERMINATED PLAN.—The individual is enrolled in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan that is terminated (during or at the end of a plan year) and who does not otherwise enroll in another Exchange participating health benefits plan.

So the Commissioner is going to come up with a way to automatically enroll people in an "appropriate benefits plan". Automatically? As in without consulting that person? That is what the word automatically implies. But if that's what they're going to do, then how exactly are they going to take into account the providers already used by the person? For that matter how are they going to know who was enrolled in a terminated plan in order to automatically enroll them?

reply to post by vox2442


I guess you didn't read Jenna's post. she did explain it on page 4. I've copied her research, thanks. . . all credit goes to her.

PG 85 Line 7 Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your HealthCare! #AARP members – your Health care Will be rationed.



Page 85 Line 7 to Page 87 Line 2:

(c) SPECIFICATION OF BENEFIT LEVELS FOR PLANS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall establish the following standards consistent with this subsection and title I:
(A) BASIC, ENHANCED, AND PREMIUM PLANS.—Standards for 3 levels of Exchange participating health benefits plans: basic, enhanced, and premium (in this division referred to as a ‘‘basic plan’’, ‘‘enhanced plan’’, and ‘‘premium plan’’, respectively).
(B) PREMIUM-PLUS PLAN BENEFITS.— Standards for additional benefits that may be offered, consistent with this subsection and subtitle C of title I, under a premium plan (such a plan with additional benefits referred to in this division as a ‘‘premium-plus plan’’).
(2) BASIC PLAN.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—A basic plan shall offer the essential benefits package required under title I for a qualified health benefits plan.
(B) TIERED COST-SHARING FOR AFFORDABLE CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—In the case of an affordable credit eligible individual (as defined in section 242(a)(1)) enrolled in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan, the benefits under a basic plan are modified to provide for the reduced cost-sharing for the income tier applicable to the individual under section 244(c).
(3) ENHANCED PLAN.—A enhanced plan shall offer, in addition to the level of benefits under the basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as provided under title I consistent with section 123(b)(5)(A).
(4) PREMIUM PLAN.—A premium plan shall offer, in addition to the level of benefits under the basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as provided under title I consistent with section 123(b)(5)(B).
(5) PREMIUM-PLUS PLAN.—A premium-plus plan is a premium plan that also provides additional benefits, such as adult oral health and vision care, approved by the Commissioner. The portion of the premium that is attributable to such additional benefits shall be separately specified.


There are benefit levels, and higher levels will have more coverage than the lower levels. I wouldn't translate this directly into rationing though since presumably (hopefully) people can choose which plan they are on. So I'm calling this claim only half true.

EDIT: Fixed external tags... again...

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Jenna]


To extrapolate further, even within the government plan, there will still be the haves and the have-nots. I guess there are many levels to "equal".

claims:

PG 898 The Government will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps. to ensure supply of public health professionals.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of officers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians.

PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HealthCare Draft? WTF!

What the bill says:

SEC. 2231. PUBLIC HEALTH WORKFORCE CORPS.
11 Part D of title III (42 U.S.C. 254b et seq.), as
12 amended by section 2211, is amended by adding at the
13 end the following:
14 ‘‘Subpart XII—Public Health Workforce
15 ‘‘SEC. 340L. PUBLIC HEALTH WORKFORCE CORPS.
16 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established, within
17 the Service, the Public Health Workforce Corps (in this
18 subpart referred to as the ‘Corps’), for the purpose of en
19 suring an adequate supply of public health professionals
20 throughout the Nation. The Corps shall consist of—
21 ‘‘(1) such officers of the Regular and Reserve
22 Corps of the Service as the Secretary may designate;
23 and
24 ‘‘(2) such civilian employees of the United
25 States as the Secretary may appoint
methodology may allow for placing and
10 assigning such participants in State, local, and tribal
11 health departments and Federally qualified health centers
12 (as defined in section 1861(aa)(4) of the Social Security
13 Act).
14 ‘‘(d) APPLICATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS.—The
15 provisions of subpart II shall, except as inconsistent with
16 this subpart, apply to the Public Health Workforce Corps
17 in the same manner and to the same extent as such provi
18 sions apply to the National Health Service Corps estab
19 lished under section 331.
20 ‘‘(e) REPORT.—The Secretary shall submit to the
21 Congress an annual report on the programs carried out
22 under this subpart.

That is the section before page 900.

Okay, I'm not exactly sure what to make of this section, I read the section that it amends and all this does is add to it.

I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to do, but from what I am reading and understanding, is there could be a national draft for health care workers.

Pages 900 - 903:

1 ‘‘SEC. 340M. PUBLIC HEALTH WORKFORCE SCHOLARSHIP
2 PROGRAM.
3 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—The Secretary shall estab
4 lish the Public Health Workforce Scholarship Program
5 (referred to in this section as the ‘Program’) for the pur
6 pose described in section 340L(a).
7 ‘‘(b) ELIGIBILITY.—To be eligible to participate in
8 the Program, an individual shall—
9 ‘‘(1)(A) be accepted for enrollment, or be en
10 rolled, as a full-time or part-time student in a course
11 of study or program (approved by the Secretary) at
12 an accredited graduate school or program of public
13 health; or
14 ‘‘(B) have demonstrated expertise in public
15 health and be accepted for enrollment, or be en
16 rolled, as a full-time or part-time student in a course
17 of study or program (approved by the Secretary)
18 at—
19 ‘‘(i) an accredited graduate school or pro
20 gram of nursing; health administration, man
21 agement, or policy; preventive medicine; labora
22 tory science; veterinary medicine; or dental
23 medicine; or
24 ‘‘(ii) another accredited graduate school or
25 program, as deemed appropriate by Secretary;
1 ‘‘(2) be eligible for, or hold, an appointment as
2 a commissioned officer in the Regular or Reserve
3 Corps of the Service or be eligible for selection for
4 civilian service in the Corps; and
5 ‘‘(3) sign and submit to the Secretary a written
6 contract (described in subsection (c)) to serve full
7 time as a public health professional, upon the com
8 pletion of the course of study or program involved,
9 for the period of obligated service described in sub
10 section (c)(2)(E).
11 ‘‘(c) CONTRACT.—The written contract between the
12 Secretary and an individual under subsection (b)(3) shall
13 contain—
14 ‘‘(1) an agreement on the part of the Secretary
15 that the Secretary will—
16 ‘‘(A) provide the individual with a scholar
17 ship for a period of years (not to exceed 4 aca
18 demic years) during which the individual shall
19 pursue an approved course of study or program
20 to prepare the individual to serve in the public
21 health workforce; and
22 ‘‘(B) accept (subject to the availability of
23 appropriated funds) the individual into the
24 Corps;
1 ‘‘(2) an agreement on the part of the individual
2 that the individual will—
3 ‘‘(A) accept provision of such scholarship
4 to the individual;
5 ‘‘(B) maintain full-time or part-time enroll
6 ment in the approved course of study or pro
7 gram described in subsection (b)(1) until the in
8 dividual completes that course of study or pro
9 gram;
10 ‘‘(C) while enrolled in the approved course
11 of study or program, maintain an acceptable
12 level of academic standing (as determined by
13 the educational institution offering such course
14 of study or program);
15 ‘‘(D) if applicable, complete a residency or
16 internship; and
17 ‘‘(E) serve full-time as a public health pro
18 fessional for a period of time equal to the great
19 er of—
20 ‘‘(i) 1 year for each academic year for
21 which the individual was provided a schol
22 arship under the Program; or
23 ‘‘(ii) 2 years; and
1 ‘‘(3) an agreement by both parties as to the na
2 ture and extent of the scholarship assistance, which
3 may include—
4 ‘‘(A) payment of reasonable educational ex
5 penses of the individual, including tuition, fees,
6 books, equipment, and laboratory expenses; and
7 ‘‘(B) payment of a stipend of not more
8 than $1,269 (plus, beginning with fiscal year
9 2011, an amount determined by the Secretary
10 on an annual basis to reflect inflation) per
11 month for each month of the academic year in
12 volved, with the dollar amount of such a stipend
13 determined by the Secretary taking into consid
14 eration whether the individual is enrolled full
15 time or part-time.
16 ‘‘(d) APPLICATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS.—The
17 provisions of subpart III shall, except as inconsistent with
18 this subpart, apply to the scholarship program under this
19 section in the same manner and to the same extent as
20 such provisions apply to the National Health Service
21 Corps Scholarship Program established under section
22 338A.

I don't really see a big deal here just scholarship guidelines.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

in otherwords it dont cover chit

reply to post by mikerussellus


I would think so, then again the post right after yours shows us they are going to rewrite contract law as they please. :shk:

Or I guess what could happen is they could have a doctor that canvases these community health and wellness programs and can drop by to check up on you whenever they please. Scary.

PG 102 Line 12-18 Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID.—The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.

This one goes along with what I quoted in my last post, only this time it's Medicaid eligible people who are being automatically enrolled. The claim itself is partially true. They will be automatically enrolled, but only if they haven't already enrolled in an Exchange-participating plan. So your options there are an Exchange plan, or automatic enrollment in Medicaid. I don't really see that as much of an option, but if I'm honest with myself I can't really call the claim completely true either.

PG 109 Line 207 Health Trust Fund. The Government will raise taxes on EVERYONE to fund HealthCare as they see fit. Correction

PG 110 Line 7-12 Employment taxes on ALL employers NOT offering Government HealthCare. No choice.

PG 110 Line 13-18 An excise tax on ALL goods from companies not offering Government HealthCare. ALL Americans pay.

PG 110 Line 19-24 the Treasury can take $$ from Soc Line to pay HealthCare.

Pages 207-211 cover all four of the above listed claims:

SEC. 207. HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE TRUST FUND.
(a) ESTABLISHMENT OF HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE TRUST FUND.—There is created within the Treasury of the United States a trust fund to be known as the ‘‘Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund’’ (in this section referred to as the ‘‘Trust Fund’’), consisting of such amounts as may be appropriated or credited to the Trust Fund under this section or any other provision of law.
(b) PAYMENTS FROM TRUST FUND.—The Commissioner shall pay from time to time from the Trust Fund such amounts as the Commissioner determines are necessary to make payments to operate the Health Insurance Exchange, including payments under subtitle C (relating to affordability credits).
(c) TRANSFERS TO TRUST FUND.—
(1) DEDICATED PAYMENTS.—There is hereby appropriated to the Trust Fund amounts equivalent to the following:
(A) TAXES ON INDIVIDUALS NOT OBTAINING ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE.—The amounts received in the Treasury under section 59B of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to requirement of health insurance coverage for individuals).
(B) EMPLOYMENT TAXES ON EMPLOYERS NOT PROVIDING ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE.—The amounts received in the Treasury under section 3111(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to employers electing to not provide health benefits).
(C) EXCISE TAX ON FAILURES TO MEET CERTAIN HEALTH COVERAGE REQUIREMENTS.—The amounts received in the Treasury under section 4980H(b) (relating to excise tax with respect to failure to meet health coverage participation requirements).
(2) APPROPRIATIONS TO COVER GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTIONS.—There are hereby appropriated, out of any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to the Trust Fund, an amount equivalent to the amount of payments made from the Trust Fund under subsection (b) plus such amounts as are necessary reduced by the amounts deposited under paragraph (1).
(d) APPLICATION OF CERTAIN RULES.—Rules similar to the rules of subchapter B of chapter 98 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall apply with respect to the Trust Fund.

The way I read this the first three claims are true. The last one I'm not entirely sure on since I don't see anything about Social Security in this section, let alone money being taken from it to put in the trust fund. Probably have to call that fourth claim false, but the other three are true.

PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.


(1) PHYSICIANS.—The Secretary shall provide
2 for the annual participation of physicians under the
3 public health insurance option, for which payment
4 may be made for services furnished during the year,
5 in one of 2 classes:
6 (A) PREFERRED PHYSICIANS.—Those phy7
sicians who agree to accept the payment rate
8 established under section 223 (without regard
9 to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.
10 (B) PARTICIPATING, NON-PREFERRED
11 PHYSICIANS.—Those physicians who agree not
12 to impose charges (in relation to the payment
13 rate described in section 223 for such physi14
cians) that exceed the ratio permitted under
15 section 1848(g)(2)(C) of the Social Security
16 Act.
17 (2) OTHER PROVIDERS.—The Secretary shall
18 provide for the participation (on an annual or other
19 basis specified by the Secretary) of health care pro20
viders (other than physicians) under the public
21 health insurance option under which payment shall
22 only be available if the provider agrees to accept the
23 payment rate established under section 223 (without
24 regard to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.

I'd not only have to call this claim true, but it goes for RN's, LPN's, CNA's as well.

Everyone who has participated in the review of this bill here should be applauded by all of us. Excellent work.

Everyone who can, should also do their own review of this bill and not simply rely on others "take" on it.

This is too important to be lost in partisan bickering and rhetoric.

Draw your own conclusions don't simply take others word for what is in this bill.

If you are truly interested in the broader and over all agenda at work here I would also suggest a review of the cap and trade bill, and the stimulus bill which was passed by a majority of congress that did not even take the time to read the bill and of course was signed into law immediately... We never had a chance to see that one.

If this is the change this country really wants, then please do not just blindly accept it as it is portrayed to you. Study it for yourselves.

Every American needs to know what is in all of this legislation, as it will have profound impact on everyone's lives.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Walkswithfish]

i don't have to read to much of the bill to know that the costs related to administrative, implementation and monitoring will be substantial and a utter waste of time. But, "they" know they have more control this way.

We can call it overhead if you like. And who will be appointed to these overhead operations...likely health care officials and cronies that have deceived us in the past. Its the same game folks, regardless of your interpretation of the legal language.

From my cursory read of the doc, too much is left open for interpretation as is typically done on legislative bills. Its easier to get the framework passed, and the provision the hell out of it at a later date. (Would you as a teacher read an incomplete essay or novel??) They do that for us...otherwise we might resent a comprehensive, transparent program that will essentially be another mega-tax, invasion of privacy (financial, medical, work, lifestyle) and fraud on the American people. You remember the Federal Reserve Act? Perhaps you should go read that as well as posed to Congress in the winter of 1913. And then look at the far reaching provisions installed into the Act to give it some "real teeth" (not good for us!).

The bill is also a mechanism for weasling out of commitments to Medicare. They(the gov) stand to be release from previous commitments, and trillions of dollars collected from American worker paychecks for DECADES. This is a double whammy for some. Some like me have been paying into the systems for decades. And now we find ourselves faced with another commitment to pay the same as everyone else???

I applaud your efforts. And apologize for butting in. I think you have just a framework, i.e., a shell, that defines very little in REAL terms of benefits to American. You really must read the document with the consideration that our government NEVER really wants to help us, but only the corporatists that have them on such tight leash. I wish you luck, but will not waste my valuable time researching an imcomplete document.

PG 119 Line 1-3 Establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for public option Can you say ACORN census?

From page 110:

(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for the public health insurance option in a manner—
(A) that complies with the premium rules established by the Commissioner under section 113 for Exchange-participating health benefit plans; and
(B) at a level sufficient to fully finance the costs of—
(i) health benefits provided by the public health insurance option; and
(ii) administrative costs related to operating the public health insurance option.
(2) CONTINGENCY MARGIN.—In establishing premium rates under paragraph (1), the Secretary shall include an appropriate amount for a contingency margin.

The claim is true on this one as well. There will be geographically-adjusted premium rates high enough to not only cover the benefits but also the administrative costs. The ACORN part not so much, but the claim itself is true.

PG 121 Line 223 PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES. Can you say Government price fixing & monopoly?

From Page 121 Section 223:

SEC. 223. PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES.
(a) RATES ESTABLISHED BY SECRETARY.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall establish payment rates for the public health insurance option for services and health care providers consistent with this section and may change such payment rates in accordance with section 224.

And Page 125:

SEC. 224. MODERNIZED PAYMENT INITIATIVES AND DELIVERY SYSTEM REFORM.
(a) IN GENERAL.—For plan years beginning with Y1, the Secretary may utilize innovative payment mechanisms and policies to determine payments for items and services under the public health insurance option. The payment mechanisms and policies under this section may include patient-centered medical home and other care management payments, accountable care organizations, value based purchasing, bundling of services, differential payment rates, performance or utilization based payments, partial capitation, and direct contracting with providers.

Another true claim. The Secretary can not only establish the payment rates for the government option, but they can also use "innovative payment mechanisms and policies to determine payments for items and services." It may not be intended as price-fixing, but it most certainly will cause it. Any providers who choose not to be part of the Health exchange will have to beat the governments price. While that in itself might not be a bad thing, we have laws against price fixing and it's a federal offense.

US CODE at Cornell Law
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 1 > § 1
§ 1. Trusts, etc., in restraint of trade illegal; penalty

Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. Every person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $100,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $1,000,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding 10 years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court.

Edit to add this claim since it's short and sweet:

PG 124 Line 24-25 No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.

(f) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.

It doesn't specifically say they can't sue, but no judicial review of a payment rate or methodology? Sure doesn't sound good for anyone who has a problem with the governments payment rates and methodology. I'm going to have to call this claim true as well.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Jenna]

Claim:

PG 876-892 The Government takes over the education of our Medical students and Drs.

I'm not going to quote this whole section because it is so big, but I will quote the sections that are relevent to the claim.

SEC. 2212. PRIMARY CARE STUDENT LOAN FUNDS.

So this part is just setting up loans to be received

1 ‘‘(a) PROGRAM.—The Secretary shall establish a pri
2 mary care training and capacity building program con
3 sisting of awarding grants and contracts under sub
4 sections (b) and (c).

So this section describes what the program entails, but indeed the "Secretary" will be setting up primary care training and capacity building programs.

3 ‘‘(a) PROGRAM.—The Secretary shall establish a pro
4 gram for the training of medical residents in community
5 based settings consisting of awarding grants or contracts
6 under this section.

So this one is setting up medical training in places like your local technical school and community colleges.

12 ‘‘(a) PROGRAM.—The Secretary shall establish a den
13 tal medicine training program consisting of awarding
14 grants and contracts under this section.

This one is for dentistry.

‘‘SEC. 799C. FUNDING THROUGH PUBLIC HEALTH INVEST11
MENT FUND.
12 ‘‘(a) PROMOTION OF PRIMARY CARE AND DEN
13 TISTRY.—For the purpose of carrying out subpart XI of
14 part D of title III and sections 723, 747, 748, and 749,
15 in addition to any other amounts authorized to be appro
16 priated for such purpose, there is authorized to be appro
17 priated, out of any monies in the Public Health Invest
18 ment Fund, the following:
19 ‘‘(1) $240,000,000 for fiscal year 2010.
20 ‘‘(2) $253,000,000 for fiscal year 2011.
21 ‘‘(3) $265,000,000 for fiscal year 2012.
22 ‘‘(4) $278,000,000 for fiscal year 2013.
23 ‘‘(5) $292,000,000 for fiscal year 2014.
24 ‘‘(6) $307,000,000 for fiscal year 2015.
25 ‘‘(7) $322,000,000 for fiscal year 2016.
1 ‘‘(8) $338,000,000 for fiscal year 2017.
2 ‘‘(9) $355,000,000 for fiscal year 2018.
3 ‘‘(10) $373,000,000 for fiscal year 2019.’’.

This is a list of the money to fund it.

So this claim does seem to ring true. The government will indeed be taking over the training of doctors, nurses, and dentist. Now that is not to say that there still won't be private programs. I don't see anything that will bar that from happening.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Wow I get back from work today & I see that we cannot have rational, non-partisan discussion of this bill. Some folks just have to come on here and vent their political gripes no matter what.

Either be part of the study or leave, please.

Edit: I can't spell

[edit on 8/8/09 by redhatty]

God what a dysfunctional mess they are making out of health care. Yes we do need reform but not this. It is much simpler to fix our health care issues. This bill represents the uselessness of our government.

It fairly simple. Insurance drives the price up. Get rid of health insurance. Give tax payers 100% tax deduction for medicine and health services. Once the tax is gone make a 0 % interest loan which the persons individual taxes will continue to pay until death.

Once dead the treasury just forgives the dept and it disappears. If we can print money then this is as good a reason to do so as any.

Put a large tax on exported health care and products, medicine to cover some of the cost.

Stop fighting useless wars and reduce the military that is destroying its own nation.

Simple

Originally posted by kenton1234
Why do I get the feeling that this is a one side interpretation of these clauses that suit a political agenda. YOURS. When there is a fair and accurate study of this bill then I will join but this is just politcal fodder for the right wing cows. Good Luck. Oh wait a minute only those that agree with you are allowed to snipe sorry.......

Maybe because you didn't read the opening post ???

I don't want ANY sniping in this thread. PERIOD.

I just got home from WORK, so I am now catching up on the thread (THANK YOU JENNA & ALL OTHERS I HAVEN'T SEEN YET WHO KEPT WORKING ON THIS WHILE I HAD TO MAKE A PAYCHECK)

I WILL call out & I mod alert every post that I call out for sniping.

Back to your regularly scheduled study (I Hope - 2 more pages to go through)

PG 126 Line 10-15 The Government can make up prices for anything at anytime for any reason.

(d) NON-UNIFORMITY PERMITTED.—Nothing in this subtitle shall prevent the Secretary from varying payments based on different payment structure models (such as accountable care organizations and medical homes) under the public health insurance option for different geographic areas.

The way I read this it means that they can pay $5 for a treatment in Idaho that they pay $15 for in New York, not that they can make up prices at anytime for any reason. Going to call this claim false.

PG 126 Line 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HealthCare for part time employees AND their families.

The page and lines referenced here are about provider participation, not employers so I'm thinking he wrote the wrong page number down. If someone wants to try to figure out where he might have gotten this from, that would be great.

PG 129 The public option will be subsidized. Credits = your tax dollars. Redistribution of wealth.

From the bottom of page 128:

Subtitle C—Individual Affordability Credits
SEC. 241. AVAILABILITY THROUGH HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of this subtitle, in the case of an affordable credit eligible individual enrolled in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan—
(1) the individual shall be eligible for, in accordance with this subtitle, affordability credits consisting of—
(A) an affordability premium credit under section 243 to be applied against the premium for the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the individual is enrolled; and
(B) an affordability cost-sharing credit under section 244 to be applied as a reduction of the cost-sharing otherwise applicable to such plan

People who qualify will receive an affordability credit, so I think that is what he meant by health care being subsidized. If that's what he meant, then the claim is true some will have their health care subsidized.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reply to post by redhatty


Anytime. I'm always up for a research project.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Jenna]

BRAVO Xeven!!!!

There are simple solutions as you suggest. They operate from chaos, confusion and complexity. This is just another complex program that need not be.

Claim:

PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Program includes Government coming into your house & telling you how to parent!!!

What it says:

15 ‘‘(f) ELIGIBLE EXPENDITURES.—
16 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—In this section, the term
17 ‘eligible expenditures’—
18 ‘‘(A) means expenditures to provide vol
19 untary home visitation for as many families
20 with young children (under the age of school
21 entry) and families expecting children as prac
22 ticable, through the implementation or expan
23 sion of high quality home visitation programs
24 that—
1 ‘‘(i) adhere to clear evidence-based
2 models of home visitation that have dem
3 onstrated positive effects on important pro
4 gram-determined child and parenting out
5 comes, such as reducing abuse and neglect
6 and improving child health and develop
7 ment;
8 ‘‘(ii) employ well-trained and com
9 petent staff, maintain high quality super
10 vision, provide for ongoing training and
11 professional development, and show strong
12 organizational capacity to implement such
13 a program;
14 ‘‘(iii) establish appropriate linkages
15 and referrals to other community resources
16 and supports;
17 ‘‘(iv) monitor fidelity of program im
18 plementation to ensure that services are
19 delivered according to the specified model;
20 and
21 ‘‘(v) provide parents with—
22 ‘‘(I) knowledge of age-appro
23 priate child development in cognitive,
24 language, social, emotional, and motor
25 domains (including knowledge of sec-
1 ‘‘(i) adhere to clear evidence-based
2 models of home visitation that have dem
3 onstrated positive effects on important pro
4 gram-determined child and parenting out
5 comes, such as reducing abuse and neglect
6 and improving child health and develop
7 ment;
8 ‘‘(ii) employ well-trained and com
9 petent staff, maintain high quality super
10 vision, provide for ongoing training and
11 professional development, and show strong
12 organizational capacity to implement such
13 a program;
14 ‘‘(iii) establish appropriate linkages
15 and referrals to other community resources
16 and supports;
17 ‘‘(iv) monitor fidelity of program im
18 plementation to ensure that services are
19 delivered according to the specified model;
20 and
21 ‘‘(v) provide parents with—
22 ‘‘(I) knowledge of age-appro
23 priate child development in cognitive,
24 language, social, emotional, and motor
25 domains (including knowledge of sec-
1 ond language acquisition, in the case
2 of English language learners);
3 ‘‘(II) knowledge of realistic ex
4 pectations of age-appropriate child be
5 haviors;
6 ‘‘(III) knowledge of health and
7 wellness issues for children and par
8 ents;
9 ‘‘(IV) modeling, consulting, and
10 coaching on parenting practices;
11 ‘‘(V) skills to interact with their
12 child to enhance age-appropriate de
13 velopment;
14 ‘‘(VI) skills to recognize and seek
15 help for issues related to health, devel
16 opmental delays, and social, emo
17 tional, and behavioral skills; and
18 ‘‘(VII) activities designed to help
19 parents become full partners in the
20 education of their children;
21 ‘‘(B) includes expenditures for training,
22 technical assistance, and evaluations related to
23 the programs; and
24 ‘‘(C) does not include any expenditure with
25 respect to which a State has submitted a claim
1 for payment under any other provision of Fed
2 eral law.

Yes, there will be home visits, but they will be voluntary. No what exactly constitutes voluntary, I'm not sure, but I would be willing to bet that it will be a program that is set up where you sign your name on a list.

Can I ask one question and my biggest problem with your entire post, where do the high payed MD's fit in here? Because they will still need to get payed and better doctors will still be available, so where does that fit in?