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Originally posted by NoJoker13
Can I ask one question and my biggest problem with your entire post, where do the high payed MD's fit in here? Because they will still need to get payed and better doctors will still be available, so where does that fit in?

PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.


(1) PHYSICIANS.—The Secretary shall provide
2 for the annual participation of physicians under the
3 public health insurance option, for which payment
4 may be made for services furnished during the year,
5 in one of 2 classes:
6 (A) PREFERRED PHYSICIANS.—Those phy7
sicians who agree to accept the payment rate
8 established under section 223 (without regard
9 to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.
10 (B) PARTICIPATING, NON-PREFERRED
11 PHYSICIANS.—Those physicians who agree not
12 to impose charges (in relation to the payment
13 rate described in section 223 for such physi14
cians) that exceed the ratio permitted under
15 section 1848(g)(2)(C) of the Social Security
16 Act.
17 (2) OTHER PROVIDERS.—The Secretary shall
18 provide for the participation (on an annual or other
19 basis specified by the Secretary) of health care pro20
viders (other than physicians) under the public
21 health insurance option under which payment shall
22 only be available if the provider agrees to accept the
23 payment rate established under section 223 (without
24 regard to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.

I'd not only have to call this claim true, but it goes for RN's, LPN's, CNA's as well.

Originally posted by kenton1234
I've read it loud and clear *snip*. And like I said when there is an honest UNBIASED study of this bill then I will participate.

That's what we're trying to do here yet your participation thus far consists of insults, not assistance in deciphering the bill.

here's an idea(it would never work but hey we can dream)
what if every dr. nurse,etc. opposes this and just says fu obama and gubmint and just totally quit and refuse to treat people?
now what?
no need to worry about healthcare legislation then!!
plus then they can't steal more of our money
if i am sick and i want to go to a dr. it should be of MY choice then i should have the right to do so and pay them either out of my pocket or thru MY insurance and i expect an unprejudiced judgment and privacy as to what is best for me.- not some beaurocratic asshole making my decisions for me- and not only will it cost us it will also help pay their HUGE salaries

Claim:

PG 829-833 Government will impose a fee on ALL private health insurance plans including self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

What it says:

9 ‘‘Subchapter B—Insured and Self-Insured
10 Health Plans
‘‘Sec. 4375. Health insurance.
‘‘Sec. 4376. Self-insured health plans.
‘‘Sec. 4377. Definitions and special rules.
11 ‘‘SEC. 4375. HEALTH INSURANCE.
12 ‘‘(a) IMPOSITION OF FEE.—There is hereby imposed
13 on each specified health insurance policy for each policy
14 year a fee equal to the fair share per capita amount deter
15 mined under section 9511(c)(1) multiplied by the average
16 number of lives covered under the policy.
17 ‘‘(b) LIABILITY FOR FEE.—The fee imposed by sub
18 section (a) shall be paid by the issuer of the policy.
19 ‘‘(c) SPECIFIED HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY.—For
20 purposes of this section:
21 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Except as otherwise pro
22 vided in this section, the term ‘specified health in
23 surance policy’ means any accident or health insur-
1 ance policy issued with respect to individuals resid
2 ing in the United States.
3 ‘‘(2) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN POLICIES.—The
4 term ‘specified health insurance policy’ does not in
5 clude any insurance if substantially all of its cov
6 erage is of excepted benefits described in section
7 9832(c).
8 ‘‘(3) TREATMENT OF PREPAID HEALTH COV
9 ERAGE ARRANGEMENTS.—
10 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In the case of any ar
11 rangement described in subparagraph (B)—
12 ‘‘(i) such arrangement shall be treated
13 as a specified health insurance policy, and
14 ‘‘(ii) the person referred to in such
15 subparagraph shall be treated as the
16 issuer.
17 ‘‘(B) DESCRIPTION OF ARRANGEMENTS.—
18 An arrangement is described in this subpara
19 graph if under such arrangement fixed pay
20 ments or premiums are received as consider
21 ation for any person’s agreement to provide or
22 arrange for the provision of accident or health
23 coverage to residents of the United States, re
24 gardless of how such coverage is provided or ar
25 ranged to be provided.

Here is another section

1 ‘‘SEC. 4376. SELF-INSURED HEALTH PLANS.
2 ‘‘(a) IMPOSITION OF FEE.—In the case of any appli
3 cable self-insured health plan for each plan year, there is
4 hereby imposed a fee equal to the fair share per capita
5 amount determined under section 9511(c)(1) multiplied by
6 the average number of lives covered under the plan.
7 ‘‘(b) LIABILITY FOR FEE.—
8 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The fee imposed by sub
9section (a) shall be paid by the plan sponsor.
10 ‘‘(2) PLAN SPONSOR.—For purposes of para
11 graph (1) the term ‘plan sponsor’ means—
12 ‘‘(A) the employer in the case of a plan es
13 tablished or maintained by a single employer,
14 ‘‘(B) the employee organization in the case
15 of a plan established or maintained by an em
16 ployee organization,
17 ‘‘(C) in the case of—
18 ‘‘(i) a plan established or maintained
19 by 2 or more employers or jointly by 1 or
20 more employers and 1 or more employee
21 organizations,
22 ‘‘(ii) a multiple employer welfare ar
23 rangement, or
24 ‘‘(iii) a voluntary employees’ bene
25 ficiary association described in section
26 501(c)(9),
7 ‘‘(b) LIABILITY FOR FEE.—
8 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The fee imposed by sub
9 section (a) shall be paid by the plan sponsor.
10 ‘‘(2) PLAN SPONSOR.—For purposes of para
11 graph (1) the term ‘plan sponsor’ means—
12 ‘‘(A) the employer in the case of a plan es
13 tablished or maintained by a single employer,
14 ‘‘(B) the employee organization in the case
15 of a plan established or maintained by an em
16 ployee organization,
17 ‘‘(C) in the case of—
18 ‘‘(i) a plan established or maintained
19 by 2 or more employers or jointly by 1 or
20 more employers and 1 or more employee
21 organizations,
22 ‘‘(ii) a multiple employer welfare ar
23 rangement, or
24 ‘‘(iii) a voluntary employees’ bene
25 ficiary association described in section
26 501(c)(9),
1 ‘‘(E) by any organization described in sec2
tion 501(c)(6), or
3 ‘‘(F) in the case of a plan not described in
4 the preceding subparagraphs, by a multiple em5
ployer welfare arrangement (as defined in sec6
tion 3(40) of Employee Retirement Income Se7
curity Act of 1974), a rural electric cooperative
8 (as defined in section 3(40)(B)(iv) of such Act),
9 or a rural telephone cooperative association (as
10 defined in section 3(40)(B)(v) of such Act).
11 ‘‘SEC. 4377. DEFINITIONS AND SPECIAL RULES.
12 ‘‘(a) DEFINITIONS.—For purposes of this sub
13 chapter—
14 ‘‘(1) ACCIDENT AND HEALTH COVERAGE.—The
15 term ‘accident and health coverage’ means any cov
16 erage which, if provided by an insurance policy,
17 would cause such policy to be a specified health in
18 surance policy (as defined in section 4375(c)).
19 ‘‘(2) INSURANCE POLICY.—The term ‘insurance
20 policy’ means any policy or other instrument where
21 by a contract of insurance is issued, renewed, or ex
22 tended.

This is a beauty too

23 ‘‘(3) UNITED STATES.—The term ‘United
24 States’ includes any possession of the United States.
25 ‘‘(b) TREATMENT OF GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES.—
1 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of this sub
2 chapter—
3 ‘‘(A) the term ‘person’ includes any gov
4 ernmental entity, and
5 ‘‘(B) notwithstanding any other law or rule
6 of law, governmental entities shall not be ex
7 empt from the fees imposed by this subchapter
8 except as provided in paragraph (2).
9 ‘‘(2) TREATMENT OF EXEMPT GOVERNMENTAL
10 PROGRAMS.—In the case of an exempt governmental
11 program, no fee shall be imposed under section 4375
12 or section 4376 on any covered life under such pro
13 gram.
14 ‘‘(3) EXEMPT GOVERNMENTAL PROGRAM DE
15 FINED.—For purposes of this subchapter, the term
16 ‘exempt governmental program’ means—
17 ‘‘(A) any insurance program established
18 under title XVIII of the Social Security Act,
19 ‘‘(B) the medical assistance program es
20 tablished by title XIX or XXI of the Social Se
21 curity Act,
22 ‘‘(C) any program established by Federal
23 law for providing medical care (other than
24 through insurance policies) to individuals (or
1 the spouses and dependents thereof) by reason
2 of such individuals being—
3 ‘‘(i) members of the Armed Forces of
4 the United States, or
5 ‘‘(ii) veterans, and
6 ‘‘(D) any program established by Federal
7 law for providing medical care (other than
8 through insurance policies) to members of In
9 dian tribes (as defined in section 4(d) of the In
10 dian Health Care Improvement Act).
11 ‘‘(c) TREATMENT AS TAX.—For purposes of subtitle
12 F, the fees imposed by this subchapter shall be treated
13 as if they were taxes

Yes sir, you will have to pay taxes on your private insurance policy.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

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Thank you for this thread.....and Jenna, you have been a shining light in regards to all this mumbo-jumbo.....so far I haven't seen anything regarding our government's part in this...are they going to be automactically enrolled in this plan also? Or are they retaining their current coverage? Can someone give me an answer this for one.....

PG 198 Line 1-3 1.5% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of 500k to 1mil. Redistribution of Wealth.

‘‘(2) 1.5 percent of so much of the modified ad2
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
3 $500,000 but does not exceed $1,000,000, and
4 ‘‘(3) 5.4 percent of so much of the modified ad5
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
6 $1,000,000.


This one is true. Not looking good with this. Hope I never become successful.

Originally posted by ufoptics
Thank you for this thread.....and Jenna, you have been a shining light in regards to all this mumbo-jumbo.....so far I haven't seen anything regarding our government's part in this...are they going to be automactically enrolled in this plan also? Or are they retaining their current coverage? Can someone give me an answer this for one.....

Their stock answer has been,"The bill states that if you currently have a plan then you get to keep it. We in congress currently have a plan, so we do get to keep our plan."

Or something along those lines.



[edit on 8-8-2009 by mikerussellus]

PG 130 Line 10-23 Federal Government will subsidize State Medicaid = Even Higher State & Federal taxes for ALL.

From Page 130 Lines 10-23:

(2) USE OF STATE MEDICAID AGENCIES.—If the Commissioner determines that a State Medicaid agency has the capacity to make a determination of eligibility for affordability credits under this subtitle and under the same standards as used by the Commissioner, under the Medicaid memorandum of understanding (as defined in section 205(c)(4))—
(A) the State Medicaid agency is authorized to conduct such determinations for any Exchange-eligible individual who requests such a determination; and
(B) the Commissioner shall reimburse the State Medicaid agency for the costs of conducting such determinations.

I'm not sure where they got that Medicaid itself was going to be subsidized from these lines. It will be reimbursed for determining eligibility for the affordability credits, but the referenced section doesn't mention subsidizing Medicaid itself. So unless there is a section somewhere else in this bill that talks about subsidizing Medicaid, this claim is false.

PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

From Page 145 Lines 15-17:

(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES.—The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).

Pages 147-149 Subsection (c):

(c) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR EMPLOYER SPONSORED HEALTH BENEFITS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The requirement of this subsection with respect to an employer and an employee is that the employer automatically enroll such employee into the employment-based health benefits plan for individual coverage under the plan option with the lowest applicable employee premium.
(2) OPT-OUT.—In no case may an employer automatically enroll an employee in a plan under paragraph (1) if such employee makes an affirmative election to opt out of such plan or to elect coverage under an employment-based health benefits plan offered by such employer. An employer shall provide an employee with a 30-day period to make such an affirmative election before the employer may automatically enroll the employee in such a plan.
(3) NOTICE REQUIREMENTS.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—Each employer described in paragraph (1) who automatically enrolls an employee into a plan as described in such paragraph shall provide the employees, within a reasonable period before the beginning of each plan year (or, in the case of new employees, within a reasonable period before the end of the enrollment period for such a new employee), written notice of the employees’ rights and obligations relating to the automatic enrollment requirement under such paragraph. Such notice must be comprehensive and understood by the average employee to whom the automatic enrollment requirement applies.

So this claim is half true. Employers will be required to automatically enroll their employees in the government plan but the employee can opt out within 30 days of receiving notice from their employer or choose insurance provided by their employer instead. There is a choice.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
PG 198 Line 1-3 1.5% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of 500k to 1mil. Redistribution of Wealth.

‘‘(2) 1.5 percent of so much of the modified ad2
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
3 $500,000 but does not exceed $1,000,000, and
4 ‘‘(3) 5.4 percent of so much of the modified ad5
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
6 $1,000,000.


This one is true. Not looking good with this. Hope I never become successful.

Has anybody else noticed the sharp contrast in the complexity of the wording on this page compared to others?

Claim:

Page 820-824 Sec 1801 Government will identify individuals ineligible for subsidies. Will access all personal finances.

What it says

13 ‘‘(19) DISCLOSURES TO FACILITATE IDENTI
14 FICATION OF INDIVIDUALS LIKELY TO BE INELI
15 GIBLE FOR LOW-INCOME SUBSIDIES UNDER MEDI
16 CARE PRESCRIPTION DRUG PROGRAM TO ASSIST SO
17 CIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION’S OUTREACH TO
18 ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—
19 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Upon written request
20 from the Commissioner of Social Security, the
21 following return information (including such in
22 formation disclosed to the Social Security Ad
23 ministration under paragraph (1) or (5)) shall
24 be disclosed to officers and employees of the So
25 cial Security Administration, with respect to
1 any taxpayer identified by the Commissioner of
2 Social Security—
3 ‘‘(i) return information for the appli
4 cable year from returns with respect to
5 wages (as defined in section 3121(a) or
6 3401(a)) and payments of retirement in
7 come (as described in paragraph (1) of this
8 subsection),
9 ‘‘(ii) unearned income information
10 and income information of the taxpayer
11 from partnerships, trusts, estates, and sub
12 chapter S corporations for the applicable
13 year,
14 ‘‘(iii) if the individual filed an income
15 tax return for the applicable year, the fil
16 ing status, number of dependents, income
17 from farming, and income from self-em
18 ployment, on such return,
19 ‘‘(iv) if the individual is a married in
20 dividual filing a separate return for the ap
21 plicable year, the social security number (if
22 reasonably available) of the spouse on such
23 return,
24 ‘‘(v) if the individual files a joint re
25 turn for the applicable year, the social se-
1 curity number, unearned income informa
2 tion, and income information from partner
3 ships, trusts, estates, and subchapter S
4 corporations of the individual’s spouse on
5 such return, and
6 ‘‘(vi) such other return information
7 relating to the individual (or the individ
8 ual’s spouse in the case of a joint return)
9 as is prescribed by the Secretary by regula
10 tion as might indicate that the individual
11 is likely to be ineligible for a low-income
12 prescription drug subsidy under section
13 1860D–14 of the Social Security Act.
14 ‘‘(B) APPLICABLE YEAR.—For the pur
15 poses of this paragraph, the term ‘applicable
16 year’ means the most recent taxable year for
17 which information is available in the Internal
18 Revenue Service’s taxpayer information records.
19 ‘‘(C) RESTRICTION ON INDIVIDUALS FOR
20 WHOM DISCLOSURE MAY BE REQUESTED.—The
21 Commissioner of Social Security shall request
22 information under this paragraph only with re
23 spect to—
24 ‘‘(i) individuals the Social Security
25 Administration has identified, using all
1 other reasonably available information, as
2 likely to be eligible for a low-income pre
3 scription drug subsidy under section
4 1860D–14 of the Social Security Act and
5 who have not applied for such subsidy, and
6 ‘‘(ii) any individual the Social Security
7 Administration has identified as a spouse
8 of an individual described in clause (i).
9 ‘‘(D) RESTRICTION ON USE OF DISCLOSED
10 INFORMATION.—Return information disclosed
11 under this paragraph may be used only by offi
12 cers and employees of the Social Security Ad
13 ministration solely for purposes of identifying
14 individuals likely to be ineligible for a low-in
15 come prescription drug subsidy under section
16 1860D–14 of the Social Security Act for use in
17 outreach efforts under section 1144 of the So
18 cial Security Act.’’.
19 (b) SAFEGUARDS.—Paragraph (4) of section 6103(p)
20 of such Code is amended—
21 (1) by striking ‘‘(l)(19)’’ each place it appears,
22 and
23 (2) by striking ‘‘or (17)’’ each place it appears
24 and inserting ‘‘(17), or (19)’’.

So what this tells me is that they will be checking your income tax records that you have filed to see if you can use the subsided prescription drug plan.

I would call this claim a little misleading because it doesn't say anything about accessing your bank account.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]