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Pope attacks art vandalising Bible

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posted on Jul, 29 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
Your reaction is part of the art, it was meant to evoke all the reactions we have seen on this thread. Criticize it as much as you want, that was the intention.

Whatever your rection was, you have become part of this piece of art


Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right?

Whether it's a pile of fresh doggie poo, replaced daily and centered on a white doily, or piles of dead bodies in the churches of Rwanda, if it's all about our reactions, it's gotta be 'art'.

Sorry, not buying a ticket to the show.




posted on Jul, 29 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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Seems this is just a bunch of blank pages that will be bound to look like a bible. It is not mandatory for people to put swear words in it just to piss chistians off.. people can say nice things in it if they like.

edit. and why is the pope saying people wouldn't pick on Islam? Has he never heared of the Satanic verses? Pisschrist was obviously created to antagonise but this is people just giving their opinions on a very domineering and sometimes abusive religion.


[edit on 29-7-2009 by riley]



posted on Jul, 29 2009 @ 07:35 PM
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Who cares what old Popey thinks about anything.

Least of all that he's upset about something

His comparison to the Koran is that of jealously- he's just jealous he doesn't have the control that another religion has.

Years ago the Catholic church killed people to get their way- as times gone on that is no longer acceptable but they try every other trick in the book to suppress humanity.

I got quite a chuckle out of reading this story.



posted on Jul, 29 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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Writing on the bible, why stop there? Why not put the book in the middle of a square and get a bunch of guys to pee on it? Way to go on making art!

I am disgusted at the lack of respect these artists have for a holy book. It doesn't matter if you believe in the bible or not, there is no need to disrespect it in the name of art. There are some lines an artist should never cross and these artists did just that. I was brought up in a Catholic home. You respect the bible and anything of religious statue. (I am not going to get into what I now believe but I still hold great respect for anything that belongs to any religion) I don't blame the Pope or any other Catholic or Christian for being upset with this, this is sacred to them.



posted on Jul, 29 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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sorry

double post!

Silly internet

[edit on 29-7-2009 by canadianmouse]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:03 AM
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Why does anything about religion always end up being pages and pages long?

I really don't get it - it annoys me that people focus on such a stupid insignificant issue - while the entire world is being burned under our feet.

Surely religion is the ultimate distraction, the essence of bread and circuses - it costs nothing to supply to the masses, yet amuses them endlessly - arguing points that can never be proved nor disproved, but which they argue with conviction, fire and unshakable belief.

Who cares? All that ever after fairy tale happens after your dead doesn't it? Why not wait until your dead to worry about it - and stop yap yapping about stuff there is no answer to, and pull your head out of the sand and your ass out of the fire?



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by lifecitizen
 


Jealous of Islam?

Oh please, he pope has to be seen to do someting, is why he complained wih regards to the art exhibitionin the first place.

Why would he be jealous of a religion as violent and corrupt as his own?

Basically what his beef is, he hs not got full control over thw whole off Christianity, not all christians listen to his words or his dcotorine.

Because those chrsitians sees his words and docorine for what it is. CRAP!



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by masqua
Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right?


i know this wasn't addressed to me but i happen to agree with the poster and i think that's a really unfair comparison.

clearly, part of the art involved the observers interaction because the observer was invited to react in their own way and express it. the post was just stating that the reaction was part of this artwork in particular, they specified this artwork, they didn't say that anything eliciting a reaction was art.

there is absolutely a thread in modern art that has the sole aim of eliciting a particular emotional response, you might be unkind and call it high brow advertising or sensationalism but it really is unfair to compare it to a war crime.

[edit on 30/7/09 by pieman]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Laura i actually agree with you. That apostilic succession is really a load of crap. Calling the pope "first amongst equals". But overall when he says this wouldnt happen to the quran I think he is right in what he says.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by Toughiv
 


Hows about no one amongst equals. As for him being amessanger of Jesus, Iwill take that with a pinch of salt also.

You all do know the protests have stopped at the Gallery of Modern art, also most of the news outlests and papers in Scotland have dropped the story right.

Told you all this would blow over.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


You were right


But jsut so you know. He isnt a messenger of Jesus. He is supposedly a descendant of St. Peter. Thats why he wears a ring to show his apostilic succession. He is supposed to be able to see into the universal truths of the Bible, so that he can read the bible, take the messages and apply them to modern life.

I wonder what he would say about Revelations Chapter 13 then! Part 16-18.
(im not dot cotton, just happened to read it from someone's suggestion yesterday lol)



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right?


Er....No !

Much in the same way as free will allows you freedom of expression but also allows you to murder someone. But any 'normal' thinking person is able to differentiate between the 2.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
The bible defacement is unquestionably and definitely art, wether you agree or not, it doesnt change its status.

You can debate for an eternity the merits and demerits of art or wether you like it or not, it still doesnt change the fact, and art, from just one view point, exists to challenge ingrained beliefs and concepts.

This example does just that and artists as a general rule are clued up enough to know the reaction they will get. And, this in this case may well be the MAIN point of the bible exhibit.........

Your reaction is part of the art, it was meant to evoke all the reactions we have seen on this thread. Criticize it as much as you want, that was the intention.

Whatever your rection was, you have become part of this piece of art


Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right?

Whether it's a pile of fresh doggie poo, replaced daily and centered on a white doily, or piles of dead bodies in the churches of Rwanda, if it's all about our reactions, it's gotta be 'art'.

Sorry, not buying a ticket to the show.


(I don't know why this comment was edited out, but I'll try repost it in its original entirety. If you see any missing parts, please let me know so that I can include them.)

This is a terrifically insulting mischaracterisation of Wobbly Anomaly's words, which clearly referred to the art installation in question and the general view of art as a challenge to tradition. He made no statement of global morality, nor was such a statement necessary to his comment. You audaciously distorted not only its contextual clarity but actually smeared it with a charge of unethics.

You pushed it off the mountain you made, then pointed to the slippery slope it tumbled down:

(The Bible defacement is art. Art challenges tradition and seeks reaction, and those reactions become a part of the artwork.) Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right? Whether it's a pile of fresh doggie poo, replaced daily and centered on a white doily, or piles of dead bodies in the churches of Rwanda, if it's all about our reactions, it's gotta be 'art'. Sorry, not buying a ticket to the show.


[edit on 30/7/09 by paperplanes]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Art is controversial in nature, I for one stand up for the rights of art.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by Amagnon
 


Just because you don't follow a religion doesn't mean people shouldn't be upset. It upsets me when someone wants to distroy anything that is for any religion. Doesn't matter if I believe in the religion or not. And this upsets me a lot because it shows how badly people are disrespecting someone's beliefs in today's society. Are we brought up in such a vulgar way that we can't show respect for a holy book such as the bible? I am not saying that everyone needs to believe the bible is true and the word of God but to show respect by not defacing it.

This is not art.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by lifecitizen
 


Jealous of Islam?

Oh please, he pope has to be seen to do someting, is why he complained wih regards to the art exhibitionin the first place.

Why would he be jealous of a religion as violent and corrupt as his own?

Basically what his beef is, he hs not got full control over thw whole off Christianity, not all christians listen to his words or his dcotorine.

Because those chrsitians sees his words and docorine for what it is. CRAP!



well, we could agree he got upset due to lack of control- he can't control everyone and how annoying must that be for him- just thinking about him getting annoyed about that makes me happy LOL

His religion is just as corrupt as it's Islamic counterpart but we don't see Catholics strapping bombs to themselves and running around blowing things up, thankfully for us in the west that sort of behaviour isn't tolerated as religion just isn't as powerful as it once were- don't think we've forgotten the Inquisition though Catholic peeps



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by paperplanes

(The Bible defacement is art. Art challenges tradition and seeks reaction, and those reactions become a part of the artwork.)


I reserve the right to be choosy about what I consider to be art and what I consider to be cheap shots.

Bible defacement is not art, it's defacement... the same as taking a can of black spray paint to a road sign.

You mention that art challenges tradition. I would agree and my own art is testament to that. Some of my paintings are a direct challenge to organized religions and hanging them in a public gallery has drawn sharp criticism from Christians as "representations of the 'devil".



So I know about challenging traditions and (try to) follow in the footsteps of many great symbolic artists throughout history who have done the same.

A few of note:

Arnold Bocklin (1827-1901) A painter of symbols with an 'unhealthy love for nature'.

Edvard Munch (1863-1944) Another symbolic painter who focussed on death and misery. His most famous work, The Scream, is a testament to our spiritual anguish by the seperation from God to mankind (read priestly go-betweens).

Gustav Moreau (1826-1898) Lots of pagan GodsGoddesses in glorious symbolic works.

None of them, however, needed to directly desecrate a bible to make their points against established religions. They did their admonishments on large canvas instead. It took time and effort and that is the major difference here. Some work.

Many consider a few famous works of Leonardo da Vinci to be a well hidden slap against the church as well. There's lots of threads about that right here on ATS and I believe that possibility to be true.

Some examples of contemporary artists who used 'shock and awe':

An acquantance of mine, Greg Curnoe, became an instant celebrity when he painted a mural on the walls of the airport near Montreal. It was hugely anti-USA and an insult to every American tourist that travelled through there. It made art mags all over North America and his fame was guaranteed from that point on. Sadly, his life was cut short.

Another acquaintance of mine, Don Bonham, created motorcycles which wound up featured in Playboy magazine. His fibreglass attachments to the bikes (fairings, fenders, gas tank covers) were created through a process of plaster molds made directly from female nudes. I even helped in that process at his studio (he was my sculpture teacher at art school). Another instant celebrity who still creates great sculptures in NYC.

THAT is art.

Not a bunch of people scribbling in a bible.

It's said that 'art is in the eye of the beholder'. Right... it is.

Bottom line: you have every right to consider that 'event' in Glasgow art. Far be it for me to deny you that. However, on this form of interactive 'theatre', I don't and never will, agree with you.


[edit on 30/7/09 by masqua]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by lifecitizen
 


Ahem and catholics in Ireland who were part of the IRA, and who are still involved with splinter groups such as the real IRA do not?

So all those bombings in such places as omah, brigtons, manchester, was not caused by bombs planted by the IRA?

What about the History of the Catholic church, the murders of people who did not follow the catholic churches doctorine?

I suppose that did not happen, it was a fragment of everyone imagination.

Christianity is as bad as Islam, people seem to forget this .



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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What has been done here "in the name of art" against the bible pales in comparison to the attrocities that have been commited "in the name of the bible".

So is the bible more sacred than the countless lives it has taken? The cultures it has destroyed? Are they less valid and did they have less right to exist? In the Vatican there are actual draws full of marble penises chiselled off the great masterpieces.. they are indeed expressions of past cultures yet the catholic church had them castrated and imposed it's own ethic. The Catholic church has a long history of controlling what artistic expression was allowed and what wasn't.. and has a long history of bastardising and defacing icons of other religions even though this pope is crying foul over exactly that thing? Many of the saints were originally pagen gods and godesses that the church changed and REWROTE.. the only difference here is that having a mock bible with blank pages isn't going to threaten the existence of Catholicism.

So many missionaries created for the sole purpose of destroying indigenous cultures.. people even forbiddon to speak their own languages.. children stolen from their familes to be raised the "christian" way. The church's bloody history has made it fair game imo.. it wrote the rules yet cries when people play by them.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by riley]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by lifecitizen
 


Ahem and catholics in Ireland who were part of the IRA, and who are still involved with splinter groups such as the real IRA do not?

So all those bombings in such places as omah, brigtons, manchester, was not caused by bombs planted by the IRA?

What about the History of the Catholic church, the murders of people who did not follow the catholic churches doctorine?

I suppose that did not happen, it was a fragment of everyone imagination.

Christianity is as bad as Islam, people seem to forget this .


hey no need to preach to the converted I'm with you- Christianity is on par with all crap religions- religion in general is a crock someone should ban it


- I know the history of the C church and god knows I know it's power damn church even changed our calender and we're stuck with it forever more, forever on catholic time-

and yeah I know about the IRA....I just think Islamic extremists are more demonstrative in general than Christian extremists but they're all seriously effed up I know what you're saying




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