Pope attacks art vandalising Bible

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
The bible defacement is unquestionably and definitely art, wether you agree or not, it doesnt change its status.

You can debate for an eternity the merits and demerits of art or wether you like it or not, it still doesnt change the fact, and art, from just one view point, exists to challenge ingrained beliefs and concepts.

This example does just that and artists as a general rule are clued up enough to know the reaction they will get. And, this in this case may well be the MAIN point of the bible exhibit.........

Your reaction is part of the art, it was meant to evoke all the reactions we have seen on this thread. Criticize it as much as you want, that was the intention.

Whatever your rection was, you have become part of this piece of art

Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right?

Whether it's a pile of fresh doggie poo, replaced daily and centered on a white doily, or piles of dead bodies in the churches of Rwanda, if it's all about our reactions, it's gotta be 'art'.

Sorry, not buying a ticket to the show.

(I don't know why this comment was edited out, but I'll try repost it in its original entirety. If you see any missing parts, please let me know so that I can include them.)

This is a terrifically insulting mischaracterisation of Wobbly Anomaly's words, which clearly referred to the art installation in question and the general view of art as a challenge to tradition. He made no statement of global morality, nor was such a statement necessary to his comment. You audaciously distorted not only its contextual clarity but actually smeared it with a charge of unethics.

You pushed it off the mountain you made, then pointed to the slippery slope it tumbled down:

(The Bible defacement is art. Art challenges tradition and seeks reaction, and those reactions become a part of the artwork.) Much in the same way that you could call the most heinous crimes against humanity art, right? Whether it's a pile of fresh doggie poo, replaced daily and centered on a white doily, or piles of dead bodies in the churches of Rwanda, if it's all about our reactions, it's gotta be 'art'. Sorry, not buying a ticket to the show.


[edit on 30/7/09 by paperplanes]

Art is controversial in nature, I for one stand up for the rights of art.

reply to post by Amagnon


Just because you don't follow a religion doesn't mean people shouldn't be upset. It upsets me when someone wants to distroy anything that is for any religion. Doesn't matter if I believe in the religion or not. And this upsets me a lot because it shows how badly people are disrespecting someone's beliefs in today's society. Are we brought up in such a vulgar way that we can't show respect for a holy book such as the bible? I am not saying that everyone needs to believe the bible is true and the word of God but to show respect by not defacing it.

This is not art.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Jealous of Islam?

Oh please, he pope has to be seen to do someting, is why he complained wih regards to the art exhibitionin the first place.

Why would he be jealous of a religion as violent and corrupt as his own?

Basically what his beef is, he hs not got full control over thw whole off Christianity, not all christians listen to his words or his dcotorine.

Because those chrsitians sees his words and docorine for what it is. CRAP!

well, we could agree he got upset due to lack of control- he can't control everyone and how annoying must that be for him- just thinking about him getting annoyed about that makes me happy LOL

His religion is just as corrupt as it's Islamic counterpart but we don't see Catholics strapping bombs to themselves and running around blowing things up, thankfully for us in the west that sort of behaviour isn't tolerated as religion just isn't as powerful as it once were- don't think we've forgotten the Inquisition though Catholic peeps

Originally posted by paperplanes

(The Bible defacement is art. Art challenges tradition and seeks reaction, and those reactions become a part of the artwork.)

I reserve the right to be choosy about what I consider to be art and what I consider to be cheap shots.

Bible defacement is not art, it's defacement... the same as taking a can of black spray paint to a road sign.

You mention that art challenges tradition. I would agree and my own art is testament to that. Some of my paintings are a direct challenge to organized religions and hanging them in a public gallery has drawn sharp criticism from Christians as "representations of the 'devil".



So I know about challenging traditions and (try to) follow in the footsteps of many great symbolic artists throughout history who have done the same.

A few of note:

Arnold Bocklin (1827-1901) A painter of symbols with an 'unhealthy love for nature'.

Edvard Munch (1863-1944) Another symbolic painter who focussed on death and misery. His most famous work, The Scream, is a testament to our spiritual anguish by the seperation from God to mankind (read priestly go-betweens).

Gustav Moreau (1826-1898) Lots of pagan GodsGoddesses in glorious symbolic works.

None of them, however, needed to directly desecrate a bible to make their points against established religions. They did their admonishments on large canvas instead. It took time and effort and that is the major difference here. Some work.

Many consider a few famous works of Leonardo da Vinci to be a well hidden slap against the church as well. There's lots of threads about that right here on ATS and I believe that possibility to be true.

Some examples of contemporary artists who used 'shock and awe':

An acquantance of mine, Greg Curnoe, became an instant celebrity when he painted a mural on the walls of the airport near Montreal. It was hugely anti-USA and an insult to every American tourist that travelled through there. It made art mags all over North America and his fame was guaranteed from that point on. Sadly, his life was cut short.

Another acquaintance of mine, Don Bonham, created motorcycles which wound up featured in Playboy magazine. His fibreglass attachments to the bikes (fairings, fenders, gas tank covers) were created through a process of plaster molds made directly from female nudes. I even helped in that process at his studio (he was my sculpture teacher at art school). Another instant celebrity who still creates great sculptures in NYC.

THAT is art.

Not a bunch of people scribbling in a bible.

It's said that 'art is in the eye of the beholder'. Right... it is.

Bottom line: you have every right to consider that 'event' in Glasgow art. Far be it for me to deny you that. However, on this form of interactive 'theatre', I don't and never will, agree with you.


[edit on 30/7/09 by masqua]

reply to post by lifecitizen


Ahem and catholics in Ireland who were part of the IRA, and who are still involved with splinter groups such as the real IRA do not?

So all those bombings in such places as omah, brigtons, manchester, was not caused by bombs planted by the IRA?

What about the History of the Catholic church, the murders of people who did not follow the catholic churches doctorine?

I suppose that did not happen, it was a fragment of everyone imagination.

Christianity is as bad as Islam, people seem to forget this .

What has been done here "in the name of art" against the bible pales in comparison to the attrocities that have been commited "in the name of the bible".

So is the bible more sacred than the countless lives it has taken? The cultures it has destroyed? Are they less valid and did they have less right to exist? In the Vatican there are actual draws full of marble penises chiselled off the great masterpieces.. they are indeed expressions of past cultures yet the catholic church had them castrated and imposed it's own ethic. The Catholic church has a long history of controlling what artistic expression was allowed and what wasn't.. and has a long history of bastardising and defacing icons of other religions even though this pope is crying foul over exactly that thing? Many of the saints were originally pagen gods and godesses that the church changed and REWROTE.. the only difference here is that having a mock bible with blank pages isn't going to threaten the existence of Catholicism.

So many missionaries created for the sole purpose of destroying indigenous cultures.. people even forbiddon to speak their own languages.. children stolen from their familes to be raised the "christian" way. The church's bloody history has made it fair game imo.. it wrote the rules yet cries when people play by them.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Ahem and catholics in Ireland who were part of the IRA, and who are still involved with splinter groups such as the real IRA do not?

So all those bombings in such places as omah, brigtons, manchester, was not caused by bombs planted by the IRA?

What about the History of the Catholic church, the murders of people who did not follow the catholic churches doctorine?

I suppose that did not happen, it was a fragment of everyone imagination.

Christianity is as bad as Islam, people seem to forget this .

hey no need to preach to the converted I'm with you- Christianity is on par with all crap religions- religion in general is a crock someone should ban it

- I know the history of the C church and god knows I know it's power damn church even changed our calender and we're stuck with it forever more, forever on catholic time-

and yeah I know about the IRA....I just think Islamic extremists are more demonstrative in general than Christian extremists but they're all seriously effed up I know what you're saying