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REBUTAL: Why crop circles ARE man made

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posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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A thread has just been started on the subject of why crop circles are NOT man made i.e created by aliens.

In fairness and to show the other side of the coin, so to speak, here is my rebutal as to why crop circles ARE man made. I have admitedly made this argument as a response in other crop circle threads but thought it worthwhile starting a thread specifically oriented towards the man made side of the argument.

Look, you can go on about these circles being ET or man made until you're blue in the face and still not come up with a satisfactory explanation for how they're made and by whom and why.

But rather than trying to bring aliens or hidden esoteric meaning in to the equation, why not simply step back and try to consider a much simpler and much more rational explanation ... and especially, an explanation that is commensurate with our level of technology and capabilities.

What I'm saying is that these circles are DEFINITELY man made and the following is the simplest explanation that covers everything about how these circles are made and within the timeframe stipulated i.e in just a few short hours. If you accept this explanation, everything about crop circles easily falls into place ... and it makes a heck of a lot more sense than picturing a bunch of people trampling thru fields in the darkness with boards and ropes ... or of aliens hovering in the sky and sending us cryptic messages.

Here's my explanation ...

Looking at crop circles simplistically, there may be a number of ways they MAY have been created but obviously the majority concensus appears to attribute them to either an alien agency or entirely man-made.

I'm going to disregard the alien point of view as there is absolutely NO supporting evidence or even a minimum working theory or hypothesis as to how or even why they would even take the time to do such an activity. Anyone with solid evidence supporting aliens, then here's your opportunity to speak up !

On the other hand, the man-made faction seem to feel that all it takes is a bunch of people working to a design in the middle of the night and using flash lights to create designs of the utmost complexity and beauty. But there is yet another possibility that keeps it within a human made framework, and providing a possible explanation thats still well within human capability.

Now, here's an alternative explanation that simply needs us to do a little more than a little "outside of the box" lateral thinking.

We know for a fact that a certain major government has/is developing technology based on particle and/or energy and/or laser manipulation for shooting down missiles.
We also know that said government also has space capable access e.g. ISS, shuttles, etc.

Now put these two facts together and lets posit a very realistic scenario.

Let's say that some of this particle, etc technology has been installed on a space platform. This capability has existed for quite some time and is not flight of fancy or wild imagining ... it's orbiting above our collective heads this very moment.

So, this technology is deployed in space and one would tend to imagine that at some point in time there has to be tests conducted ... if only to guarantee that they can target ground based and airborne locations with complete and pinpoint accuracy.... after all, thats one of the selling points behind their design, the fact that collateral damage can be reduced significantly.
You don't simply conduct one test and say, "that's good enough for us" but rather you'd have a schedule of regular tests to conduct to maintain peak weapon performance.

Also, one would assume that these space borne particle, etc based weaponary would be capable of having their power output controlled ... after all, you wouldn't use a sledge hammer to kill a fly if other less severe options were available to you !

So what form would these tests take ? Well, if it was my desicion, I'd simply crank down the power output to a very low and safe level, pick a spot somewhere on the earth below me and also pick a TOTALLY safe and people free location like, let me see ... how about an isolated farm field in the middle of nowhere in the early hours of the morning ! Then to fully test the precision and controlability of the weapon, simply program the controlling computer to create a complex pattern using the weapon on the selected isolated location and easily giving an unambiguous and VISIBLE feedback of the weapons precision.
Now being automated and under computer guidance/control, even the most complex patterns could be created within a very short space of time.

This immediately removes the difficulty of explaining the following points:
- just how a few people can so quickly create complex patterns.
- just how they're able to do this in complete darkness with just flashlights
- just how they can do it without ever being seen
- just how they manage to leave no traces of their presence
- the various anomalies e.g. stalks all bent in a certain direction, etc
- just why these crop patterns can appear all over the world

However, one major side effect of this scenario is created unintentionally ... a raging debate as to whether aliens created these patterns OR a bunch of people tramping around in the dark and stomping down wheat stalks ... in the meantime the weapons testers/designers are splitting their sides in laughter at us !




posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 12:37 AM
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I have often head mention of these little copper balls that have been found in the soil where some circles have appeared.

Jaime Mussan has mentioned it a few times in his documentaries.

I have wondered if some of these circes are made by TPTB via some sort of electrical field that may be created or bounced off these metal balls.
Maybe the metal balls a few feet under the soil give them something to create an electrical field around, that they can activate via a signal from a satellite/haarp etc.

I feel there is probably a blend of both man made and intelligence other than man, or yet undiscovered human/natural phemomena that is causing these crop circles.

I sometimes think that there has to be humans behind some crop circles as the designs at times seem to be a bit too stoogy. Masonic/Gnostic symbolism etc. But there are also others, and other arguments, on how the grass is bent, time frames involved, accuracy etc, that really do seem a bit of a stretch to be humanly created/possible.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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I tend to think that most crop circle devotees who favour the "'created by aliens" explanation are in fact looking in the right direction i.e up into the skies. But rather than expect to see a hovering ufo and a bunch of aliens using their phasers (or equivalent) to grafiti the fields ... try wrapping your head around the possibility that its actually a bunch of humans (or maybe automated) up in a military space platform conducting targeting and precision testing/alignment of some piece of military hardware.

There's absolutely NOTHING far fetched in this idea based on the military technology and hardware thats available. Could even be a version of Reagans "Star Wars Initiative" thats actually up and running this very moment.

Also consider that the complexity of the designs increases each year which would be in line with ongoing technological improvements.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


Again, I have to say that I'm right with you regarding your crop circle formation explanation. I've never been able to figure out why a load of aliens would waste their time in a farmers field to draw enigmatic and possibly meaningless artwork ... especially if as some claim it's an attempt at communication with us ... in which case we're flunking the iq test miserably.
And as for a person or group of people doing these incredibly complex designs in the dark and with a time constraint ... puhleeze ... don't insult my intelligence !



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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So your basically saying that it's super secret military space-borne particle cannons instead of aliens causing crop circles. If we apply Occams Razor to this theory we get.....umm....honestly I think aliens is the simpler, more logical solution.

Why would the military bother to make pretty patterns in crops? Especially if it were "super top secret" wouldn't that be kind of like advertising themselves for all to see?

At least the alien theory has posed a decent reasoning WHY they do it....ie: making contact.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties
So your basically saying that it's super secret military space-borne particle cannons instead of aliens causing crop circles. If we apply Occams Razor to this theory we get.....umm....honestly I think aliens is the simpler, more logical solution.


[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]


What !!!! ????
Aliens are in your opinion a "simpler" explanation than a human designed and operated particle/energy beam weapon, firing from low earth orbit and under computer targeting control ? You think the military doesn't already have the hardware, technology and capability to space these type of weapons ? Guess what ... they're already there orbiting above our heads ... aka Reagans "Star Wars Initiative".



Why would the military bother to make pretty patterns in crops? Especially if it were "super top secret" wouldn't that be kind of like advertising themselves for all to see?


Simple answer to that ... it allows them to see the immediate effect of the efficiency of their targeting software by creating complex designs ... they can see these designs easily from low earth orbit.

As for 'advertising' themselves ... let's see ... who made the crop circles ? why, it was either aliens or a bunch of people tromping thru a field in the dark with a rope and board !
The military must be laughing themselves silly over this ... secret still safe !!



At least the alien theory has posed a decent reasoning WHY they do it....ie: making contact.


Duhhh ... WHAT contact ? WHATS the message being sent ?



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


You are not the first person, nor the last, to pose the theory that crop circles are the result of a secret military experiment. Therefore, your assertion that the 'secret' has been kept safe because everyone is thinking either aliens or men-with-chipboard is false. If it were true, then you would be the first person ever to pose the theory and nobody would have ever thought of it before.

I believe that if the military had such weaponry (which I don't doubt) they would pick better targets to test their weapons than publically viewable farming crops. How about targets in the middle of the many many thousands of kilometres of desert that the US military has set aside for military use? Surely they would provide more secretive and protected sites to test highly super secret particle space-cannons than a bloody farmers crop?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


It may be so that others have also conjectured that such is the explanation for crop circles but that in no way detracts from the ability of the hypothesis to answer virtually every question regarding the technical formation of the circles and also why they're being formed. It sure beats hands down the "alien communication" alternative ... what, they've never heard of radio or tv signals as a more effective communications medium.

Again, perhaps the "bloody farmers" fields are being selected because the technology is designed to be effective against "organic" targets and not sand or rocks or buildings. If so, then there's NO shortage of suitable organic targets (wheta fields) dotting the British countryside. And why does the UK have a proponderance of crop circles appearing ? Well, who said the S military had a monopoly on such technology ? Perhaps the K also has it and is using it's own "backyard" for testing.

Again ... nothing to remotely falsify this hypothesis ... but by all means, keep trying ....



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by afoolbyanyothername
reply to post by Kryties
 


It may be so that others have also conjectured that such is the explanation for crop circles but that in no way detracts from the ability of the hypothesis to answer virtually every question regarding the technical formation of the circles and also why they're being formed.


No, I do not believe it answers it in the slightest. You are making a HUGE assuption by saying that the military has developed working particle cannons that have the ability to be precisely controlled to flatten crop circles into intricate designs. Apart from how ludicrous that sounds in terms of "what's the point", it is also an assumption on your part that this technology even exists, considering it is supposedly so top secret that unless you have a top secret clearance and are now leaking us information about what you have personally seen, then you have absolutely no way of knowing this with any degree of certainty.


It sure beats hands down the "alien communication" alternative ... what, they've never heard of radio or tv signals as a more effective communications medium.


It would stand to reason that an alien race that is advanced enough to perform long duration space travel has also developed a method of communication that far surpasses our radio and TV signals. It would stand to reason that they may not even have the technology to detect these signals because they have never had a need to develop it as their own technology is infinitely better. Therefore it stands to reason that the aliens may need to find another way of communicating with us and crop circles are just one way to try.

So no, I would NOT expect aliens to have heard about an old Earth form of communication that even WE are in the process of upgrading and replacing with newer, faster, better methods.


Again, perhaps the "bloody farmers" fields are being selected because the technology is designed to be effective against "organic" targets and not sand or rocks or buildings. If so, then there's NO shortage of suitable organic targets (wheta fields) dotting the British countryside.


Another supposition, this one being that the weapon only targets organic material. You are changing and adding to the story as you go, making things up that seem like they would fit. If you were writing a science fiction story I would say you have a keenly creative mind.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 03:32 AM
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of all the things they can test their 'STAR WAR" weaponry on, they had to pick some poor farmers crop. it couldn't be bushes and shrubs somewhere remote between oregon and idaho nope, it had to be crop. thats some hi-tech stuff i tell you.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 




No, I do not believe it answers it in the slightest. You are making a HUGE assuption by saying that the military has developed working particle cannons that have the ability to be precisely controlled to flatten crop circles into intricate designs. Apart from how ludicrous that sounds in terms of "what's the point", it is also an assumption on your part that this technology even exists, considering it is supposedly so top secret that unless you have a top secret clearance and are now leaking us information about what you have personally seen, then you have absolutely no way of knowing this with any degree of certainty.


Perhaps you should do some basic research on "publically disclosed" info regarding particle/energy beam weaponary. Here, I'll start you off with an article entitled
"Introducing the Particle Beam Weapon" by Dr. Richard M. Roberds
www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil...

and lots more to be found without too much effort. And thats ONLY whats been disclosed publically.
So yes, the technology most certainly exist NOW and you can also bet that the necessary computer controlled software required to pinpoint target is also in existance. Otherwise what hope in hell would they have of targeting a moving missile in the atmosphere. So if they can target and track a moving high speed object, using a predefined computer program to move the beam in intricate patterns would be equally simple.
So don't for one moment try to tell me such technology doesn't exist as it most certainly does and therefore your statement that it requires a HUGE assumption on my part is obviously and easily demonstrated to be false !



It would stand to reason that an alien race that is advanced enough to perform long duration space travel has also developed a method of communication that far surpasses our radio and TV signals. It would stand to reason that they may not even have the technology to detect these signals because they have never had a need to develop it as their own technology is infinitely better. Therefore it stands to reason that the aliens may need to find another way of communicating with us and crop circles are just one way to try.

So no, I would NOT expect aliens to have heard about an old Earth form of communication that even WE are in the process of upgrading and replacing with newer, faster, better methods.


What a ridiculous statement to make !
Aliens able to travel to Earth are by definition much more advanced then us and would be absolutely capable of communicating in much simpler ways with us besides doodling in a wheat field ... give me a break ... are you serious that these advanced aliens would be hard pressed to make their intentions known ?
Are you aware that we "advanced" humans have even been able to communicate with a less developed species (chimps and apes) by teaching them a simple form of sign language ... and yet these aliens of yours are too stupid to do something similar with us !



Another supposition, this one being that the weapon only targets organic material. You are changing and adding to the story as you go, making things up that seem like they would fit. If you were writing a science fiction story I would say you have a keenly creative mind.


In science, a hypothesis is just an initial attempt at explaining a set of observed datum and if required, is adjusted as new data comes in and an attempt made to "fit it" into the previous hypothesis.
So until you or someone else can show that this hypothesis is inherently false ... then it still stands ...



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


That's fine
You stick to your hypothesis of super secret space-based particle cannons that only target organic molecules and are only tested on farmers crops, and I'll stick to my beliefs. It is obvious you have made up your mind on what it is so therefore I can find no reason to continue beating my head aganst a brick wall.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


That's fine
You stick to your hypothesis of super secret space-based particle cannons that only target organic molecules and are only tested on farmers crops, and I'll stick to my beliefs. It is obvious you have made up your mind on what it is so therefore I can find no reason to continue beating my head aganst a brick wall.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]


Forgot to mention ... microwaves are already being reported as potential energy weapons and guess what ? ... they're far more effective on organic material than inorganic. Stick a rock and a raw unshelled egg inside your microwave oven and start it up ... I guarantee the rock will sit there but the egg will make one heck of a mess !



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


I also guarantee that a directed energy microwave beam will not cause the type of damage and residues that are present at most crop circle sites.

The reason microwaves are so effective on organic material is because microwaves excite the water molecules in the material to the point where they superheat and cook your food/target. In no way, shape or form do crop circles display characteristics of having been cooked by microwave beams.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


I also guarantee that a directed energy microwave beam will not cause the type of damage and residues that are present at most crop circle sites.


I only used microwaves as an example that "organic" targeted and preferential energy beams are feasible and exist ... quite possible for there to be variations or similar energy weapons having been developed ... thats part of the military r&d secrecy.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


It just seems like quite a reach to me to say that a military force from some random country spends billions of dollars on space-based particle cannon research, along with millions of more dollars on keeping it secret and yet they decide the best place to test their new weapons is on wheat crops?!?!

Doesn't make any sense to me.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


Good post, and very well thought out and presented! Makes a whole lot of sense too. Personally, I think what they have up there is a lot more than an International Space Station, I think it is a weapons platform, and I also think they have a Beam Weapon, and several other exotic weapons systems installed, including weather modification and earthquake weapons. Now maybe I am all wet here, but how many of have actually seen the space station up close?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

rules.swcombine.com...



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by afoolbyanyothername
 


It just seems like quite a reach to me to say that a military force from some random country spends billions of dollars on space-based particle cannon research, along with millions of more dollars on keeping it secret and yet they decide the best place to test their new weapons is on wheat crops?!?!

Doesn't make any sense to me.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by Kryties]



And what if the particle/energy weapon was designed to affect organic material preferentially ? Then it'd be useless testing it on sand or rocks in the desert and you certainly wouldn't want to go carving up huge chunks of forests as that would DEFINITELY draw unwanted attention very quickly !
So whats a satisfactory safe, isolated and deserted place to test that would only draw the attention of ufo and other "weirdo" fringe groups and do little or no permanent damage AND where the results of the test could be seen immediately and clearly from a low earth orbit vantage point ?
Hmmmm ... let me think .... fields of crops in the middle of nowhere !



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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Again, I've been reading the crop circle posts in other threads and the more I read of how posters try irrationally and illogically to justify CC creation by either alien means or by the rope&plank method never ceases to amaze me.
And their deep seated conviction that there's HAS to be some kind of hidden message in the designs even though none has so far been discerned is almost delusional.

Anyway, out of all the theories and hypothesis that have been thrown at CC's, you're makes the most logical sense to me ... so ignore those posters who are unable to look outside their narrow points of view and unable to contemplate that there just might be another more simpler and logical explanation.
Keep up the good work ... I'm with you on this



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