White House, hospitals reach deal on health care

WASHINGTON – The nation's hospitals will give up $155 billion in future Medicare and Medicaid payments to help defray the cost of President Barack Obama's health care plan, a concession the White House hopes will boost an overhaul effort that's hit a roadblock in Congress. Vice President Joe Biden announced the deal at the White House on Wednesday, with administration officials and hospital administrators at his side. Reform is coming. It is on track; it is coming. We have tried for decades to fix a broken system, and we have never, in my entire tenure in public life, been this close," Biden said. And in a firm message to lawmakers, Biden added, "We must — and we will — enact reform by the end of August." Obama has set an ambitious timetable for legislation, with the hope of signing a comprehensive bill in October. But lawmakers returned Tuesday from their July 4 break with lots of questions about the complex legislation and deep misgivings about key elements under discussion. Democratic senators in particular are having second thoughts about a proposed new tax on generous health insurance benefits provided by some employers. Without the tax — Republicans favor it as a brake on cost increases — the prospects for a bipartisan deal in the Senate appear to be in jeopardy.

news.yahoo.com... alth_care_overhaul
So does this mean that universal health care is right around the corner?
If so what does this mean for us?
Personally I think the idea of everyone having insurance would be great but I don't think it would be used for the right reason, I think it would be just another way for the government to gain even more control over the people.
What do you think?

And everything slowly begins to fall into place while the country is distracted by Michael Jackson Mania.

He is pushing hard for his August Deadline. I wonder what he has planned for the Fall season? Obama seems to be in panic mode lately. Are we heading for a heath care crisis in the Fall?

Giving government control over your healthcare, what could be wrong with that? Government's done so well in everything else, amirite?

If this is a public option where you choose to remain on your private plan or to get under the public option there should be no need for fear. Your more then welcome to keep that tinfoil hat on and pay extra for the private plan for the sake of "freedom"

The one thing I must ask conservatives is that why if you folks could have outright supported bush and his corporate thugs through their $200 million a day war can you complain about the cost of this health care plan that actually benefits this nation. Lets not forgot during the drunkin war "of freedom" around $1 trillion worth of tax cuts were put forward that did BS for this nation in the coming years back in 03'. So interms of the spending arguments, its something I dont take seriously coming from you fellas.

Public plan, its high time. Considering the US one of the few remaining nations in the world without this public plan, I guess for the time being before the public plan we are the only "none socialimisms" nations in the western world.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I agree, think it could be great, just worried that there's an agenda behind it though.

Hospitals? Which hospitals? I didn't realize there was a body out there that could speak unanimously for all hospitals...??

And Biden's words crack me up: "We have tried for decades to fix a broken system, and we have never, in my entire tenure in public life, been this close," Biden said. As if he has been working tirelessly for healthcare reform all his public life.

Gov't control of healthcare = bad idea. Many nations that have adopted that idea are revisiting their decisions after realizing they made a big mistake.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Gov't control of healthcare = bad idea. Many nations that have adopted that idea are revisiting their decisions after realizing they made a big mistake.

"Many" nations? You mean the few conservative contrarians in those nations. There will always be some conservative somewhere other than the United states howling at "socialism" one way or another, its nothing new, really. I would really like the conservatives here tell the citizens among the rest of the developed nations to give up public care... fat chance. These public healthcare systems have been in place in all but two nations (US and Turkey) in the developed world since the 1980s to which during that time the US slipped to 37th for best healthcare, behind Costa Rica for petes sakes. Its pathetic considering we are the wealthiest nation in the world yet our citizens receive 37th in treatment for healthcare. Theres just no excuse. We find ourselves behind many developing nations, its just pathetic.

But you know its fine and dandy Jsobecky, you can sit this one out and opt to remain with your private plan. I however dont see why I cant take advantage of this system and not break my back paying for once.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
These public healthcare systems have been in place in all but two nations (US and Turkey) in the developed world since the 1980s.......

Just because they are in place doesn't mean they are a good idea.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I however dont see why I cant take advantage of this system and not break my back paying for once.

If you want to "take advantage" of that system, knock yourself out. I mean, if you want to have some government office worker dictating what sort of tests and services you're allowed to get under their plan. And then willing to wait until a doctor is available to treat you.

Originally posted by jerico65
Just because they are in place doesn't mean they are a good idea.

Because goodness knows the people and the elected officials in those nations during the 20 period didnt have a say in whether they were happy with the system right? I guess this failed system somehow made it through the rest of the western world apart from the US and Turkey? Explain to me again how it is the most powerful and richest nation in the world cannot make good healthcare available to its citizens like some undeveloped countries can.

If you want to "take advantage" of that system, knock yourself out.

Yes I will help myself thankyou. You go ahead and keep that tinfoil hat of yours, your most welcome to feel as though you've preserved your "freedom" by paying the corporations off for the sake of your health. If you have that sort of money, its a free country, this is a public option.

I mean, if you want to have some government office worker dictating what sort of tests and services you're allowed

Oh here, I'll try to make more sense about what you just said.

I mean, if you want to have some government office worker dictating what sort of tests and services you're allowed then you can just go back to the private plan because this is a public option and you have a choice.

SG

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Because goodness knows the people and the elected officials in those nations during the 20 period didnt have a say in whether they were happy with the system right? I guess this failed system somehow made it through the rest of the western world apart from the US and Turkey? Explain to me again how it is the most powerful and richest nation in the world cannot make good healthcare available to its citizens like some undeveloped countries can.

A lot of the people that have this wonderful healthcare system complain about it. My co-worker is engaged to a Canadian, and tho she said that it was good for her kids, it sucked when she had to get OBGYN work done for herself, among other things.

When I was in Paris last year, I was speaking to some citizens that didn't have the same outlook on their health system as you do. A lot seem to like it, but they aren't too impressed with the taxes that they have to pay to get it.

They rather have lower taxes and pay for whatever healthcare they wanted.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Yes I will help myself thankyou. You go ahead and keep that tinfoil hat of yours, your most welcome to feel as though you've preserved your "freedom" by paying the corporations off for the sake of your health. If you have that sort of money, its a free country, this is a public option.

And if you feel like a free and independent person when you suck off the government teat, knock yourself out. I don't trust the government to do anything right to begin with. You think they'll be able to manage this correctly?

I'm all for paying for a private plan. I just don't want one cent of my tax money going to fund everyone else's health insurance.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by jerico65]

Tinfoil hat? lol. Look what msgforum this is. If you want to regurgitate cnn socialism, go somewhere else. I pay private insurance, and it only costs me 115 bux/mth. If you can't afford that price, you need to cut out the cigarettes and big macs. No need for government to tax me and everyone else because you can't shop around for insurance on the internet.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Archon_Adept]

Originally posted by jerico65
A lot of the people that have this wonderful healthcare system complain about it.

Because there are those of us who are fortunate enough not to be inflicted with a life threatening illness. Once the fire burns, the insurance companies make every excuse possible not to pay for it. Do you really think these private entities care about your health? At the end of the day when you pay them, your seeing and insurance of some kind, when they recieve your payment they see profit. Nobodies health should be a commodity. With this option though contrarians can continue to sell themselves as commodities.... infact its going to be real interesting to see howmany of the typical conservative contrarian suspects stay in their private healthcare plan. I may never know though, as if anybody will admit so.

My co-worker is engaged to a Canadian, and tho she said that it was good for her kids, it sucked when she had to get OBGYN work done for herself, among other things.

Wonderful, if she doesnt like the public plan and she had the money to pay for a better private one, by all means. For many of us this system will be just fine. Your choice to move on with the private plan.

hen I was in Paris last year, I was speaking to some citizens that didn't have the same outlook on their health system as you do.

So you go to Paris, find some people who dont like their healthcare system that much, and this automatically makes the system defunct? I said this before, there are contrarians all around the world who disagree with this system (most whom have not been without the system in 20years) but considering the fact the public healthcare system is still in place, never having being challanged by a majority movement, infact considering these nations are way above the ranking in healthcare compared to the US, I dont see these folks as the majority view, neither do I see yours. You know that the majority of americans are pushing for this? Nobodies denying there exists the contrarians, but at the same time I dont see anybody denying there exists no majority.

And if you feel like a free and independent person when you suck off the government teat

Ill say this again, you have the sort of money to pay the corporate thugs for the sake of your health, you go ahead. Its a public option.

I'm all for paying for a private plan. I just don't want one cent of my tax money going to fund everyone else's health insurance.

Yet your happy to send your tax payer money to fund oil wars right? Thats an acception, right? If you like the change in the nation there should be an airport somewhere in your town.... but wait! Considering the rest of the western world has this system in place already, your only option is Turkey.

You enjoy paying the corporations, after all their profits depend on exploiting the health of folks like you.

Originally posted by Archon_Adept
Tinfoil hat? lol. Look what msgforum this is. If you want to regurgitate cnn socialism

Did I mention CNN? Im sorry in what way did I link anything to CNN? Tell me when Reagan and his fellow conservatives stood back in the 80s to speak of "this free world" this "western anti-socialist world" did he fail to mention that all but two nations in this western world (being Turkey and the US) have universal healthcare?

Tell me would Reagan and his followers dare go back and call the allies "socialist countries"?. I dare you to go ahead and call the rest of the world socialist, because this is the mentality of conservatives over this public plan at the moment. Everybody is socialist in the world but good ol' cottonfield Alabama.

I pay private insurance, and it only costs me 115 bux/mth.

I feel so sorry your as gullible to continue paying that much as opposed to this public plan. If it makes you feel better, its all fine dandy, I was thinking of saving my $115 (Im working class might I add). You will never know the true colors of these private insurance companies until you find yourself with a life threatening illness. But you know, this is a public option, your more than free.

If you can't afford that price, you need to cut out the cigarettes and big macs.

I dont smoke, can you believe it?

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Do you really think these private entities care about your health?.

Do you think that the government cares about your health?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
For many of us this system will be just fine. Your choice to move on with the private plan..

Willing to bet your life on that?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You know that the majority of americans are pushing for this?

Maybe where you live; most people I know aren't hoping this works out.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Yet your happy to send your tax payer money to fund oil wars right?
Thats an acception, right? If you like the change in the nation there should be an airport somewhere in your town.... but wait! Considering the rest of the western world has this system in place already, your only option is Turkey.

Change!! That magic word!!! Obama and change!!! He's going to change everything for the better!!

And just how much has he put the US in the hole now? How many trillions of dollars? And you whine about oil wars and how much Bush spent???

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You enjoy paying the corporations, after all their profits depend on exploiting the health of folks like you.

And you enjoy putting your faith in Obama and his politburo. I'm sure they are all thinking special thoughts about you.

Originally posted by jerico65
Do you think that the government cares about your health?

I know I dont have to break my back paying for the private plan. I know that given the government is chipping in this one, your health wont be for personal gain. gain as my tax payer money is already been used to fund my health.

I know this is a conspiracy website where folks like you talk about government control 24/7. I know its just broken records at the end of the day. I know this is a public option so you go right ahead and stick to the private one.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Willing to bet your life on that?

Bet this on the rest of the western nations who seem to have moved with the times interms of healthcare. You however can bet your life on the private corporations, Im sure your health being another number on the profiteering field should make you more free than ever.

Maybe where you live; most people I know aren't hoping this works out.

Yes Im sure of that. Im sure 70% of americans support this plan. Im sure your small town buddies thought differently about something else back in 03'.

Change!! That magic word

It is! This public plan has been a long time coming and I for one say its bout time. You go ahead and stick to the private plan, I'll be moving forward with the rest of the world.

And just how much has he put the US in the hole now? How many trillions of dollars? And you whine about oil wars and how much Bush spent???

Hmmm... Obamas $800 billion stimulus for america compared to Bushes $5 trillion debt which includes his oil war, his ineffective trillion dollar tax cuts and his $1 trillion military expenditure increase. That sure did a damn lot for us folks here, but hey it was "mouth shut" during that time for your folks, right? Ill take Obamas stimulus and you can take credit for the rest.

You noticed how conservative contrarians are going on about how this is another attempt at government control. To translate that, "this plan will be successful and folks will not vote in another conservative come 2012 in favour of this plan"

SG

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by jsobecky
Gov't control of healthcare = bad idea. Many nations that have adopted that idea are revisiting their decisions after realizing they made a big mistake.

"Many" nations? You mean the few conservative contrarians in those nations. There will always be some conservative somewhere other than the United states howling at "socialism" one way or another, its nothing new, really. I would really like the conservatives here tell the citizens among the rest of the developed nations to give up public care... fat chance.

Of course they won't give up public care, as long as someone else is paying for it. The countries you speak of have oppressive tax rates to pay for their 'public care', and that is where we are headed, if we are not careful.

These public healthcare systems have been in place in all but two nations (US and Turkey) in the developed world since the 1980s to which during that time the US slipped to 37th for best healthcare, behind Costa Rica for petes sakes. Its pathetic considering we are the wealthiest nation in the world yet our citizens receive 37th in treatment for healthcare. Theres just no excuse. We find ourselves behind many developing nations, its just pathetic.

Ranking for best healthcare? Based upon what criteria? Best doctors and facilities? Accessibility to services? WAIT LISTS? Accessibility to critical drugs? Survivorship rates for diseases such as cancer?

But you know its fine and dandy Jsobecky, you can sit this one out and opt to remain with your private plan. I however dont see why I cant take advantage of this system and not break my back paying for once.

You do know the main selling point Obama is pushing, don't you? "We want to give the people a CHOICE."

Choice? We already have over 1500 choices for health plans in the US. Why do we need another? Because....Obama wants to socialize medicine as part of his grand plan, is why.

And if you don't think you'll end up paying more in the long run, then you are sadly mistaken. To begin with, you will be taxed on your health care benefits (yet another broken promise from Obama).

Compare that satisfaction level in the UK with their grand experiment in socialized medicine. Listen to their politicians such as Daniel Hannon.



If you refuse to heed the words of those wo live this nightmare, you deserve the poor system that you crave.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Of course they won't give up public care, as long as someone else is paying for it.

No actually they recieved healthcare as a right as they are tax paying citizens.

The countries you speak of have oppressive tax rates to pay for their 'public care'

The countries I speak of appears to be way ahead of the 37th ranking our nation seems to have interms of healthcare to its system. Those countries make up all the western world but the United States and Turkey. For some reason their citizens are happier, for some reason their health care appears to be in much better shape and for some reason we find our citizens having to settle for third world class health care in what is suppose to be a first world country, the leader of first world countries. Theres just no excuse.

Ranking for best healthcare?

The World Health Organization's ranking based on healthcare systems:

Best doctors and facilities?

Oh we have world ranking doctors and facilities here....for a back breaking price. It appears these citizens recieve similar facilities in others countries merely by being citizens and paying their taxes.

WAITING LISTS

If you want to spare another minute or two go to the private plan if you can afford it.

Choice? We already have over 1500 choices for health plans in the US.

We have 1500 choices in the private industry says... 1500 ways for the big business to sc*w us over.

No really I just loved the way you gave us Fox news of all places to back up this "talk" of yours.... and you folks can pull a straight face and complain about the mainstream media. Oh the irony.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I know I dont have to break my back paying for the private plan. I know that given the government is chipping in this one, your health wont be for personal gain. gain as my tax payer money is already been used to fund my health.

So the government forks up a few bucks for your healthcare. I really do have to admire your confidence that they'll take care of you. I mean, they did such a bang-up job with medicare, Social Security, etc.

And you think your money will be funding your health? Good luck; it might if that office pogue in DC decides you're worth that test or surgery. If he doesn't, you're screwed.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I know this is a conspiracy website where folks like you talk about government control 24/7. I know its just broken records at the end of the day. I know this is a public option so you go right ahead and stick to the private one.

Ah, OK, I get it. Well, everyone can have their beliefs. It's a good thing. You're one of the people that thinks it's nice to have the government doing everything for you.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Bet this on the rest of the western nations who seem to have moved with the times interms of healthcare. You however can bet your life on the private corporations, Im sure your health being another number on the profiteering field should make you more free than ever.

And you think that you're NOT going to be some number on a ledger in a government office? You think that you're going to be treated any better than how they treat the vets in this country? Heck, I'm a vet and I'm not holding my breath that the VA will be doing me any good.

But you're a free man, tho, right? The government holding your hand thru all walks of life. Makes you more free than anyone else.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Yes Im sure of that. Im sure 70% of americans support this plan. Im sure your small town buddies thought differently about something else back in 03'.

Yeah, because people in small towns are stupid or something, right? Not as educated and free as you and your neighbors. I'm sure it will work out for you, tho. Obama is just losing sleep at night, hoping that Southern Guardian isn't sick or anything.

Ask any Doctors what they think of this plan? Because they are the ones I was speaking to. They aren't too impressed.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
It is! This public plan has been a long time coming and I for one say its bout time. You go ahead and stick to the private plan, I'll be moving forward with the rest of the world.

Yep, and as I said before, just because everyone else does it, it doesn't make it right.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Hmmm... Obamas $800 billion stimulus for america compared to Bushes $5 trillion debt which includes his oil war, his ineffective trillion dollar tax cuts and his $1 trillion military expenditure increase. That sure did a damn lot for us folks here, but hey it was "mouth shut" during that time for your folks, right? Ill take Obamas stimulus and you can take credit for the rest.

And it's working so well, isn't it? Let me see, unemployment is still rising, Guess that money isn't doing the job, huh? Obama promised that unemployment wouldn't rise about 8%. Another broken Obama promise; how many does that make now?

I guess things will be better once Obama pushes thru with his wonderful Cap and Trade plan.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You noticed how conservative contrarians are going on about how this is another attempt at government control. To translate that, "this plan will be successful and folks will not vote in another conservative come 2012 in favour of this plan"

I don't know about that. I'm not sweating government control. I just know that the government will screw up this healthcare plan like they do just about everything else they touch.

But keep the faith. You seem to know that this one will work out. Like some gambler in Vegas, the house OWES you, right?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
We have 1500 choices in the private industry says... 1500 ways for the big business to sc*w us over.

And you seem to think that the US Government isn't going to screw you over?

Now that's funny!!

And the reason why Obama wants to ramrod this thru is because he wants his Dem buddies reelected in 2010 and he wants to be prez in 2012. This way, he can just say, "Hey, I brought you free healthcare! Keep me in office!"

You got bought off cheap.