Man Makes Miracles

A new poster made a good point "why would god want to make miracles by putting out the sun?"

Well he doesn't.

Miracles always have, and always WILL be, man's interpretation of some event inexplicable at the time, it used to be that a storm was the sign that god or the gods were angry. Now we know differently.

Man makes up miracles as he sees fit, some people think said miracles are just coincidences, hence the schisim between belief systems.

Sincerely,
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Too bigga words to me..lol

BUT

The only men who ever has and ever will make miracles occur are followers of Jesus Christ. Tell me this guys, Have you EVER seen any other man who is NOT a Christian preform a miracle? NO. If you have, PROVE IT TO ME. First off, like I said, God wouldn't make the sun go out and call it a miracle. The reason God makes miracles is to USE them FOR HIM. Miracles are preformed when people see that a follower of Christ is preforming them.

No, MAN does not MAKE miracles. Man PREFORMS GODS miracles. I don't know if you meant "Man Preforms Miracles" or not, but Man does not make miracles.

I simply mean that man defines the miracles, any miracle by god would be a miracle to ALL not just the "faithful", the latter being an oxymoron, how can a miracle be only for those who "believe" it is a miracle?

Aren't miracles supposed to be undeniably "above human"?

Sincerely,
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Speaking as Wiccan (boy, am I going to get toasted for this!) I should point out that you haven't seen Jesus do any miracles, either.

He did not walk physically into anyone's room (where everyone around saw him walking, took photos, etc) and do miracles. You have a published report of him doing miracles in a book that you trust.

If we use the same standard for other figures as you're using for Jesus, then yes there are a LOT of miracle workers out there of exactly the same calibre as Jesus. Someone recently posted a link (verified, etc) of a man raised from the dead by a preacher (and there's decent provenance there.)

You can find similar miracles among followers of many faiths. (in some places, they're so commonplace that these miracles are simply thought of as part of the job of being a priest/shaman.)

Here's a Miracle Freemason

One incident was a logging truck crash that happened early one winter�s morning in Canada. At that time I owned two Kenworth logging trucks. On this particular morning, Feb 15th 1978, about 4 AM, I was following my other truck into the bush on a logging road neither of us knew. We had waited for another truck to follow in, and after a short while had left us far behind.

My other truck was a mile ahead of me, when he descended down a hill and encountered black ice. Normally a driver would warn the following truck of the danger, but he must have been stunned, dazed perhaps, in any case he was unfamiliar with the road, as was I.

He slid for a hundred feet or more, hard to say, and finally came to rest as he spun out and ended up on a curve pointing back around the curve facing up the hill towards me.

I encountered the same ice he had slid on and being a slide situation the ice was worse, very slippery. My bogy wheels locked up and the engines stalled, due to the engine jake brake being on. I had little time to react, but was able to shift into neutral, start the engine in a matter of seconds, engage into higher gear, but by then was sliding faster than I could recover from.

I saw the lights of the other truck shining on the road some 200 feet away, lighting the bend, and I assumed it was a loaded logging truck coming out with a load.

I could see two small trees on the bend on my side of the road, and thought I could aim the truck between the trees be slowed by the embankment and then the loaded truck could pull me out of the snow.

As I was committed and as far as I could tell, there was no other options as my steering was almost nil being in a slide, the truck I thought was a loaded truck, was my own, which I passed at a fair clip, sitting off to my right. I saw the �Marshall Logging� on the door and still have a very clear image in my mind of the truck sitting there on the road.

It turned out that the two small trees were the tops of very large trees, down the side of a very steep incline. There was no escape, I sailed off leaving the road and the truck began to turn on its side plummeting into the darkness.

As the truck rolled on its side, my head lamps shone on the trunk of a very large fir tree, lined up with my windshield. At that moment death was inevitable, a second or so away. My thought was, �well God here I come.�

The next thing was a cold white light, which enveloped me, and I passed into it.

What seemed to be moments later I was above the scene as if looking from a helicopter from a distance of 200 feet up and 400 feet away.

The truck was suspended in the air, its front wheels missing, the frame was bent behind the cabin, the cabin itself was torn off at the windshield level, the frame for holding the logging trailer was missing as was the logging trailer.

Slightly above and beyond it, was the other truck, its lights shining on the road and I could see the hill, the mountain side and moon lite reflecting off of the snow and trees.

I was moving down on a slight angle, carried by a force that surrounded me, which was familiar to what I had experienced long ago. I moved closer and closer to the truck, and finally sat on the driver side seat. Then the vehicle began to float down into the valley.

The sensation was similar to an elevator, little feeling of movement, until it seemed to speed up as it made contact with the ground and slid to a stop, moving me slightly forward as is slowed.

I sat there for 20 seconds or so wondering what had happened then I heard a crashing of bush and breaking of scrub as the 7 ton trailer crashed to my left some 35 feet or so. I did not see it at that time as it was almost dark in the depths of the valley.

I tried to comprehend what had happened, feeling my legs chest and arms with my hands. I thought this was what death was. Satisfied I was still alive, I stood up onto the running board, stepping onto the snow noticing it was almost level with the ground.

I walked to the front of the truck, surveying the wreck, the front wheels and axel was missing with the extreme impact. Amazingly the head lamps were still burning and was the reason I could see in the darkness.

Standing in the light I felt a moist warm flow of blood on my right temple region. Running my fingers I felt a sharp obstacle protruding from my head. Pulled it out it was a sliver of glass about � inch long, covered in blood. I thought, �thorn of Jesus.�

Turning away from the lights, flicking the sliver away, turning I looked up towards the stars, and thought, �what difference would it have made to the universe if I, a small speck of dust, had died?� �well God you have won me, what do you want me to do?�

Starting back towards the road, the slop was to steep to climb, but after a struggle managed to clamber along the face of the incline clinging to small trees making my way to the road, some 100 yards away.

Once I managed to reach the road, I was up the hill a short distance above the other truck, stepped onto the road slipping towards Bert my driver, who was kneeling praying for me. He saw me and thought I was a ghost, certain I had been killed.

The next day I returned to the scene and assisted the tow truck driver haul it back up to the road. I estimated it was 185 feet from where I had left the road, but was not where it should have been, as it should have been straight ahead, but was to the right 90 degrees to the incline.

Two days later the insurance company examined it and wrote it off as a total wreck.

I had time to settle down, took a few days off then took a drive to the wreckers examining the damage.

It was evident that no man could have survived it, the impact was so great that the engine had been torn of the mounts, broken away from the gear box, and forced down through the frame, dislodging the front axel.

The only salvageable parts were the tires and the rear differentials.

Originally posted by Byrd
Speaking as Wiccan (boy, am I going to get toasted for this!) I should point out that you haven't seen Jesus do any miracles, either.

He did not walk physically into anyone's room (where everyone around saw him walking, took photos, etc) and do miracles. You have a published report of him doing miracles in a book that you trust.

If we use the same standard for other figures as you're using for Jesus, then yes there are a LOT of miracle workers out there of exactly the same calibre as Jesus. Someone recently posted a link (verified, etc) of a man raised from the dead by a preacher (and there's decent provenance there.)

You can find similar miracles among followers of many faiths. (in some places, they're so commonplace that these miracles are simply thought of as part of the job of being a priest/shaman.)

What do you believe in?

Connie what a great story! Thanks for sharing it... you are one tough woman!!

Byrd, 5000 in one place were fed with 5 loaves of bread, 7000 in another place had the same. Whole families had their dead bought to life, multitudes of people saw him heal the sick and diseased.

One of the things that scared the pharasies, and eventually led him to be killed, was that the "whole country was turning towards him" he was so famous even Herod the governer wanted to see a miracle.

This was not something done behind closed doors, or talked about by a select few. So many people followed him to see the miracles he was performing that he had to drive them away with hard teaching. He had to flee himeslf to get some peace.

When the gospels were finally laid down ... as early as 40ad some say, those people would still be alive and would have complained loudly if the 'stories' were not true.

His miracles were common knowledge even reaching into non christian Roman works where he was described as a "worker of miracles". (forget the source).

And you know what ... they havn't stopped today either ....

i agree freemason....