How can reincarnation exist if we see the ghosts of relatives?

reply to post by supay


That is very interesting! What you say about the different ways people "move on" after dying. I can see exactly what you're saying. People who have been ingrained with religion not moving on because, well, in their minds (even after death), they're just not supposed to. I can see people being so attached to the physical world that, once they die, they refuse to let go of it, especially it's "sinful" pleasures.

Thank you so much for that perspective. I love hearing new things!

Here's what I have come to believe. The NDE commonly experience only happens to those who time has not come yet. When you die (physically) your astral body remains on this plane for anywhere from a few hours to a few days. After that, you experience 'astral death' wherein your spirit or soul can then cross over into the next plane of existance. After a period of rest, the length of which is determined by the spirit involved, you then return into a body of your choosing. Some souls do not need to return, and they ascend to a plane higher than that of those in the 'waiting room'. Those with karma issues pause (could be for many years) in a plane inbetween this one and the 'waiting room'.

Ghosts, spirits or whatever you wish to call them remain here for a few reasons. One is that they don't know they are dead. Another is that they are afraid to cross over. Some just don't want to leave.

Those that appear to be repeating the same behavior over and over again (are observed doing the same thing at the same time night after night) are those in the 'karma issues' plane, which is the closest plane to our own, thus are observable during 'psychic quiet time' or the middle of the night. In this plane you keep repeating the karmatic mistake until you have learned where you went wrong and are ready to proceed in your spiritual journey.

If you are interested in reincarnation, I recommend a little known book, Mind Probe Hypnosis, by Dr. Irene Hickman. It gives detailed accounts by many of her patients. It's a real eye opener.

In order for there to be IN-carnate beings there would also have to be DIS-carnate beings.

So Re-Incarnation and Ghosts are no contradiction at all. One couldnt exist without the other.


[edit on 19-6-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by chillpill

This is a confused subject. We have purposely been confused about it. You can go directly to the Near Death Experience (NDE) accounts and make of them what you can, or you can believe the various "between lives" scenarios that have been advanced.

I have mostly studied Hubbard's findings. He did most of his research on this in the early 1950's, so that data is getting a little dusty, but I still think it's basically good data. The main point is, near death, or between lives, is an extremely variable experience. There have been attempts down through the ages to control it, and from these come many of the confusions about it. But the fact is that it is a period during which the being is most free but is also likely to be confused or upset, particularly if the death was not wanted.

A being can choose to hang around the dead body. The being can decide to "haunt" the place where the body died. The being can feel an irresistible urge to go down a "tunnel" or through a "door." The being may find itself at a "conference" or getting instructions from someone, or from a series of pictures, or from a group. The being may have agreed to leave some previous body on the condition that it be preserved for him. (Sorry about "him-it", could also be "her." Sex and related identities are basically considerations.) The being may locate the former body and be disappointed to find that it has been allowed to decay by a slipshod caretaker!

All kinds of things can happen. A being may be shot back to earth to pick up a new body within a matter of minutes. Or he could wait days, months or years to do it. For most cases I am aware of, between lives is short, only roughly a day.

Some of the most impressive NDE accounts involve a "secret truth" being revealed to the person. This is quite possible.

Until such time as things calm down a bit on this planet and people and society in general know when to trust memory and perceptions and when not to, there will be a lot of confusing and conflicting data about what "really happens."

I recommend that we stay open to this data. Some people lie on purpose. They are the ones who can sometimes fool others into believing things that aren't in any way true. But most of us are still honest, or at least try to be.

reply to post by l_e_cox


When you talk about 'Hubbard's findings', are you talking about L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of the Scientology Cult?

Wow, there is so much on this tope but from the information I've been exposed to, I've gathered the following:

...Let's start with 'ghosts'...

-There are different types. First you have your residual type haunting where the 'essence' of a person or traumatic incident is imprinted into a specific place, etc., etc.

-Then there is the 'unrest' spirit which lingers within our realm to seek resolution of some sort, protect another individual, bring warning (or other various reasons to hang around. It is always something with purpose)

-Low level mischevous spirits- these are basically procrastinating in their soul mission. They are normally harmless and just seemingly seeking attention and entertainment. (IMHO, they are probably in early incarnations)

-From time to time, there may be a spirit (generally at a high level incarnation) that will briefly appear with a message for a loved one. This is rare but still documented.

...Reincarnation

There are so many schools of thought on this but I'm going to present what I find to be the most plausible in light of my own personal experiences.

-A belief held by most is that we have some choice as to our re-incarnations when we reach a certain 'soul level', think of it as literally being in school. I do not know at what point we get intervention but it's commonly believed that our spirits' make the choices as to when we come back, our life path, etc. etc. *Although I cannot honestly find the rhyme or reason behind my crap, I do believe this to be true! It's one of those 'just knowing' things........

So that being said, it brings me to the conclusion that our spirits/souls can have a variety of missions and purposes. The existence of one does in no way nullify another. There is so much beyond the realm we know, there is really no human comprehension. Trust me in this though, those of us that believe, don't only 'believe', we KNOW we've been before. It's an amazing thing. For me it's particularly unsettling but also reassuring in a sense. (I'm not great at this, I've done alot of blocking in this life......lol)

Edit: to add and format

[edit on 19-6-2009 by jackieps1975]

Reportedly there is no sense of time on the other side. The choice to come back and when to do it again is voluntary, it all depends on how much spiritual growth one wants to achieve. Supposedly, the more growth, the closer to God you become. Come back and choose an easy life gets you less growth than coming back with a hardship of some kind. From what I've read, one chooses everything. For instance, if you come back and choose blind and poor, you gain more spiritual growth than coming back as a healthy Richie Rich. Of course, no one really knows for sure. I think your growth depends on how you live your life as well. Try not to break any Commandments.

Ghosts are spirits that for whatever reason, have not crossed over into the light.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by Cosmortician]

I don't think I'd want to have a period of reflection or whatever before I come back. I'm way too selfish and I like it that way. that would make me want to kill myself even though I was already dead! I'd rather stick around being a ghost or just come back right away, forgetting my past life

reply to post by chillpill

It's fairly simple really. Many who die tend to hang around for a while to see if their family is okay. Some just get stuck by not knowing they are dead and become the ghosts people see long term. Some get stuck in their beliefs and create an un-real type of reality until they finally see through the fantasy.

With the ones seen in NDE's they are representations of the person.. either friend or family.. from the Soul that was the person in life. That person doesn't actually exist anymore so the soul takes on the form in order to meet the incoming arrival.

There are no time limits on reincarnation. A soul will incarnate when it decides to. Some come back here quickly, some choose to stay and work on other things. Example, one "deadie" I took across into the light a few years back is still there working with younger teens/children who commit suicide in order to assist them into more clarity about the illness as it is seen there and prepare them for the next incarnation.

In the end, there is no-one telling you that you must incarnate, or forcing you into the next life based on what you deserve after the last one. The Soul has all the power of choice and is not required by anyone to do and be anything. Soul level awareness is very different to what we imagine from our limited level of awareness.. so anything we think should or must be the case will not in reality be the case at all.

I offer this from my own personal experiences over these past 40 years or so, and with that I hope this response has been some help to you.

Originally posted by Ignorance Denied
reply to post by chillpill

 

I read a book before called the Thiaoouba Prophecy, you can get an e book online for free.. There is a bit about what you ask, it says something about photons being left behind when you die, that mimic your past self, like they remember how you were in your pysical form.. And from time to time people see the aperition of your former self.. And thats what a ghost is..

Read the book, very interesting.. Made alot of sense.........

I can testify to this. I experienced this before.

Here is a short story that is somewhat amusing.

I was visiting with an old friend up in Lake Tahoe one year. We were leaving his house to go get a bite and had to stop at his brothers house so he could drop something off to him. He pulled up in front of his house and ran in. In tahoe there are no street lights on some of the streets. This was one of those. Anyway he ran in and I sat in the dark. My eyes began adjusting and out of the corner of my eye to my left (I was in the passenger seat), something catches my eye. I turn and as I'm watching I can literally see the silhouette of two people getting down (a little bump and grind). I don't know how to describe how it looked. Like static or mist.

Anyway, he is in there talking for about 15 minutes. I watched this for a few minutes to make sure I was actually seeing it then started seeing other stuff outside...wolves...Indians....no joke.

Finally my buddy comes out and we head off to the casino's. My friend also has lots of weird occurrences happen to him, but that's another story. Anyway, I turn down the radio and say, "Hey this is going to sound weird, but have you gotten down with a chick in your front seat latelly?"......He answers all white...."Last week when I got off from the bar...." He was a bartender at the time.

Peace

It's quite simple really, ghosts are atheists who find they have no place to go once they're dead.

reply to post by chillpill


What I have heard, is that it is typical to stay on the other side for about 60 years or so before incarnating again. Actual ghosts would be those who did not go in to the light for whatever reason. Eventually they will.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You can have some stuck here for a while until they can let go.

That's an insteresting thought I myself have never thought of before.

I'm not sure where I stand on reincarnation, but the thought of "Ghosts" still being around,???
Twice in my lifetime, I've heard of family members being visited by those who had recently passed on.

The first was my dads cousin being visited by thier aunt telling her she needed to work on certain things in her life. (She actually saw her aunt standing in front of her telling her these things.)

The second was my Nephew. His mother was in the next room and heard him talking to someone. At first, she didn't think much of it since he has an older brother and sister. After a while, she realized that they were both away at school and nobody else should be in the house for him to talk to. She tried to listen to what was being said but couldn't understand anything. When she went to see who he was talking to, he was in the room alone. Nobody else was there. She asked him who he was talking to. He answered "I was talking to Papa".

The only person he ever called "Papa" was my father who had passed on not long before this.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that maybe some may choose to stay a while to help others do what they need to do.?

I may be wrong, but it makes sense to me at the moment.

Originally posted by debris765nju
It's quite simple really, ghosts are atheists who find they have no place to go once they're dead.

Why would atheists have no place once they are dead?

Anyone working on the house, is sheltered in it...Theist or not....

When you stop working on the house, you become homeless. "Forbid not the children"....God weighs hearts, not belief's.

reply to post by Americantrucker


Hmmm.. neither of those situations sound like ghosts. That sounds more like they were visiting from the other side. I.e. they already went in to the light and were granted permission to visit and interact, etc..

reply to post by SailorinAZ


We are the light.

We are the inheritance and the mansion prepared.

We are the light on the lamp stand that gives light to the whole house.

When people die and see the light, it is because there is light to be seen, family and friends who "remember" thus drawing the "past" to the light of recollection to the "Living God". This is important also because, for the most part, the impressions that people have of those past away is usually on the good that they have done, thus all of the sin "is forgotten" to the "living God". At you're last day, you are resurrected to the minds of the living God thus remaining in that light to the judgment of those memories.

Just like the "spirit" of the game, so to is the spirit of the person....picked up like a banner by those proud to wave it. Life is heaven.

Peace

This is why "do unto others" applies friends. Mem Ori is very important.

Residual Consciousness, Some people move on, some don't, some already lived there second life. The possibilities are endless my friend.

According to Buddhism, we as beings are made up of "5 aggregates" (or more properly, skandas). The schoice of the word "aggregate" for translation is unfortunate; the original term skandas used by the Buddha referred to a kind of hollow banyon-like tree, emphasizing ideas of emptiness and interconnectedness.

The theory has a number of nuances and I won't go into it too much here... use your old friend google if interested...but the idea that we as beings have no inherent self-existence is very central to Buddhism and worth pondering carefully. The more conservative schools see the self as something like a nexus or crossroads where these five factors come together temporarily and then corkscrew off into whatever karmic directions they have established...the self thus has no inherent existence apart from these temporarily established causes and conditions...where does a knot "go" when you untie it? (This view, especially in some of its more radical forms, causes its own philosophical problems, especially related to karma, and this topic is hotly debated, such as between the Madhyamika and Vijnanavada schools, but I digress).

Anyway, the point is that if the "self" can be seen as something like a big aggregate of causes and conditions than one can posit that some "aspect" could remain as a ghost while other "aspects" of the dead person reincarnate in other ways (perhaps even in different individuals). Like a recycling system...the aluminum gets melted down over and over and formed into new cans...a can doesn't "reincarnate" completely as a new can in recycling, but its material is mixed with that of other old cans and then used to form new ones...genetics offers a similar paradigm too.

According to the truth of death, you have no conscious existence after you die.

Any apparition or reincarnation experience or whatever on those lines is nothing but a lie from the demons here on planet Earth. Some of them have physical bodies (IE: "alien" beings) while others are disembodied to walk the Earth as demons to tempt and mess with humanity, including "I saw the light" type experiences.

Isaiah 26:14 "They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish."

Isaiah 8:19 "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

There you have it. Most Churches (most are corrupt beyond normal Biblical teaching) teach that when we die we get to live in heaven and Paradise or go to Hell. When the reality is we won't be conscious of either one until Jesus Christ judges everyone who ever lived.

Or how about this question...on Judgment Day the soul is united with the body, if there's reincarnation, then which body is your soul united with on that day if you were reincarnated a few times?