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Racism marches still allowed?!

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posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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I am so ashamed right now!

I am watching the national geographic about Nazi Americans and I am so disgusted right now and I will just have to get over it I guess.

Sure, we give right of free speech. BUT this is getting out of hand with allowing groups to still march for power or pride of a one race!

I am white and I could care less about my own color. I just watched 4 people be arrested because they came to this gathering of Nazi Americans to defend the civil rights of ALL people...but yet THEY were the ones that got arrested while the police sat there and protected the racist group saying they were there to protect their right to free speech!

What!?!

America needs to stand tall for being a country of many colors! Our public places like court house squares are being used to promote racism! This is not about free speech....but yet a group that has learned how to abuse and use a right.

One of the leaders of the group is banned from Germany and Canada...at least someone is standing up to them!

Very upsetting!




posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



As long as it's peaceful, they are allowed to march. I don't agree with them, either, but it's their right. If you interfere with the marchers, you can be the one arrested.

Doesn't matter who they are representing, someone isn't going to agree with it. That doesn't mean it should be stopped.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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Look we may not agree with these groups and the things that they do, but freedom of speech and protest is to be afforded to all.

I will defend to the death the right to say whatever I please to anybody, so in turn I require to do the same for all other people.

If you want freedom of speech, you hafto defend it, regardless of what is being spoken.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Racism should not be allowed...period. Its all about pride and power.

I have gained a new respect for the countries that have banned the leader.

I am a ol hippie girl...but I can see where this leads, which is no where but abuse of a right. They should not be givin permits to march! They can think whatever they want but to march on public places with swastikas on the American flag made me sick!

No one can make a person think something...we are free in our own minds to hate someone...but when a country allows such a hateful presentation to happen it also reflects onto what that country stands for or is allowing.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


It becomes a dangerous thing to say that an idea should not be allowed. A very slippery slope. You say 'Racism should not be allowed'. I don't think any non-racists would disagree with the statement "Racism is detrimental to our species as a whole". But when you declare war on an idea, you tend to simply make more proponents of the idea. Look at the War on Terror; how many terrorists do we make every time we drop a bomb on a civilian?

Obviously, I'm not supporting terrorism OR racism; I'm pointing out that there is no effective tool to contain either without grievously wounding the principles this country was founded on. For instance, if a far left or right leaning govenment was in power, even HAVING AN APPARATUS by which to strip civil rights from one group allows potential abuses of the apparatus. I don't think the racists are changing anyone's mind. Let them have their pitiful display of ignorance.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
No one can make a person think something...we are free in our own minds to hate someone...but when a country allows such a hateful presentation to happen it also reflects onto what that country stands for or is allowing.


You're right, nobody can make anybody think something. And you are free to make up your own mind about every subject presented to you.

But the right of any society to attempt to educate people on their views is not something to be frowned upon. If we did it the way you propse than 9/11 protests and anti-war protests would not be allowed, because they are pushing views that are not everybody's.

As I said, I disagree entirely with their message and their actions, but we live in a free country, which promotes freedom of speech to EVERYBODY not just the people we want to hear. And it's a GOOD reflection on this country that people CAN go out and march for whatever purpose they want, so long as it is peacefull.

After all words are just words, the US needs to understand that. To deny these people that right would be against the constitution, it would be against what America stands for.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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I guess Im ready to see the world (or at least our own country)get over this hate stuff.

I know this is a tough call and I hesitated before I posted-

Im not saying they cant have their little gatherings at private properties...but to still allow hateful marches in public places gives a bad rap...in my opinion.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Restriction of one freedom leads to the restriction of all freedoms. Which is why the right to free speech grants you the right to disagree with them. But it isn't an all-encompassing right either. If it can't be married with civility and respect then its so-called supports obviously to me lack the integrity and personal maturity to exercise it.

There's a time and a place for everything.

Which is why I responded the way I did to this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And ultimately racism is mostly a product of a feeling of disenfranchisement, not getting treated fairly. I'm generally more concerned with why they feel this way than whether or not they should. But that's just my opinion and idea.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Well that I will certainly agree. However I am afraid that equality in this world is a myth and won't ever happen. Like minded people will always gather in groups to opress or ridicule another group of folks.

The only way to deal with it is to have a system of law that protects all invididuals from persecution. As I said, words and just words and should be taken as such.

I am more worried about the actions of these groups which instill hate and fear within the masses.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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I understand keeping freedoms and I get that to take away from one takes it away from another.

But surely there is a way to make a law against a racism march due to the fact it promotes hate against someone for their color.

I want my freedom but should the country not have some morals or values?

Im starting to calm down....this really had me fired up!



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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My feathers are calming down-but one more statement before I go find some zin.

If a group talks of killing anyone-this in itself should not be tolerated.

This is a group on the verge of going postal.

I dont think my freedom of speech should support me going around in public places talking about how certain people need to just die. Even if my country says I have that right...my values tell me otherwise.

Thanks for those who jumped right in and talked about this with me....I really needed the feedback to calm down.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


The answer is simply no.

Who gets to decide what the morals and values of a country is? The current government? Obviously they've done a poor job of that already. There are rules to protect individuals from persecution, or bodily harm in regards to these groups.

Hate crime laws imply a crime. A simple pro-white rally really doesn't hurt anybody, other than your feelings. This idea of being politically correct is also a myth.

People really need to stop giving up their basic freedoms on the account of other's feelings. I understand as I said, I would not want them to promote hate of any kind, but only like minded individuals are influenced by these sorts of marches.

If we make those kinds of marches illegal, than all others would need to follow suit. You would be setting a precedent, and in law that opens the doors for everybody's freedoms to be removed on the account that some find it "offensive".

There are better ways of doing things, I know that much, but there needs to be a general concensus by the people in order for anything to get done in this country or any democratic republic.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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It's strange to think these things still go on but it's very true! I lived in Mississippi for 4 years (until Katrina hit). Now I'm not talking about back woods MS, we lived on the beach, right smack in the middle of Casino Row.
The first time I saw the KKK marching around the neighborhood I was absolutely STUNNED. I couldn't believe it. I remember that I called hubby over to the window because he didn't believe me! We stood watching with our jaws hanging open as they marched (in full hooded garb) up and down the beach highway and along the side roads. I don't remember how many times I witnessed it but it was always freaky. I am from NY and I never expected to see such a thing in my lifetime. Just goes to show how amazingly diverse the USA is, in and of itself, let alone other countries



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Thank you Mod for the move of the thread.

I had no idea where to place my rant.

tothetenthpower-I do see what you are saying and it has helped me resolve this in my mind somewhat. But still so frustrating and in the face to be reminded how much hate there still is in the world. Sad really....mabey I needed the reminder though.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Good, I hope it does anger you my friend. And only so that you can be aware and educate people over how horrible this behaviour is. There is always room for decent in everything that we do, and sometimes, we tend to forget how easy we have it being white in this world.

I've been where you are and couln't help but go out into the streets and scream at these people and ask them why, and you know I got a good response a few years back.

I came accross a Youth KKK clan meeting a few years back and I went to the grand master or whatever and asked him, why they did these things, why they attempted to usurp others because of race.

He smiled and said: "Because I Can. Wonderful country isn't it?"

That's really all the answer I needed.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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Very interesting post IMO.


But to me, as a black American,(NOT a hyphenated African)its disturbing somehow.



Why? The implications as to why YOU would or should feel shame over the actions of a few extremists with whom you happen to share a skin tone with can not be an emotionally or psychologicaly healthy stance.

Also, a restriction of expression and viewpoints----as stated above---is never a good thing.

Racism is on its deepest level a very personal thing. Based on perspective of the individual in question. And personal perspective should never be dictated by the larger society. Only education (and UNBIASED education at that) should have influence on such views.

While I commend the poster for compassion, views that advocate restricting personal viewpoints(and almost literal THOUGHT) should disturb all of us much more than any agenda by a handful of extremists.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


What the country stands for is Freedom of Speech. In your scenario who would you have decide which speech is "correct" and which isn't.



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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I see your point but I really don't think banning racism will end racism. These people merely need their minds opened and perhaps educated as well.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 06:16 AM
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I have read all posts and I find myself agreeing with all points made thus far. The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. As stated earlier I to will and have (with my life)defended that right. But I also believe that some speech should be prohibited. Speech that may cause a disruption of the peace or cause violence is the kind I’m talking about.

I worked with a guy who had racist views and to be honest I got tired of hearing them. I was 2 weeks as a new hire at this engineering when this white guy, I won't call him a racist but he did have some misguided views. For example;shortly after I was hired he started saying to me "I can do you job" followed by coming over to my office and trying to tell me how to do my job which he new very little about.

One day he came over to my office and proceeded by using tack and innuendo, regurgitate his idiotic ideals. He asked me "why can blacks use the “N” word and whites can’t"? And he was really mad about it, so I had had enough of everything at this point and calmly told him that he can say it but be willing to accept what ever consequences arise from saying it to me.

There was no real crime committed,so why should I go crying to the boss? He just asked IMO an ignorant question and I despise playing the race card and have nothing but contempt for the blacks that use it just because they are black.

But the real question is, should I have been put in that position of possibly having to give this guy a dirt nap due to people having the right of free speech?



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.
Very interesting post IMO.


But to me, as a black American,(NOT a hyphenated African)its disturbing somehow.



Why? The implications as to why YOU would or should feel shame over the actions of a few extremists with whom you happen to share a skin tone with can not be an emotionally or psychologically healthy stance.

Also, a restriction of expression and viewpoints----as stated above---is never a good thing.

Racism is on its deepest level a very personal thing. Based on perspective of the individual in question. And personal perspective should never be dictated by the larger society. Only education (and UNBIASED education at that) should have influence on such views.

While I commend the poster for compassion, views that advocate restricting personal viewpoints(and almost literal THOUGHT) should disturb all of us much more than any agenda by a handful of extremists.


I am a very empathetic person. I often go through meditations where I focus on the world as a whole and our country as a whole. In ancient times and still today....a nation can be misrepresented by one group of people.

What bothered me the most about the show was they used the American flag like they were the only ones that owned it. They had sown swastikas onto the flag! I am sorry....but if that is what free speech leads to NO MATTER WHAT then something is wrong here.

There should be some sort of guidelines...such as not allowing them to have permits in public places to promote hate. That is what they are doing....they arent just full of hot air. They want people to die. People promoting death and torment on others should not be allowed to display that publicly....in my opinion. That is not about free speech....that is about hate.

I thought....surely since this is on National Geographic....there are other nations that see this allowed in America. America would rather promote their freedom of speech over a moral or value that says we wont promote hate groups in public? I guess....and I know Ill just have to get over that.

This leader pulling this stuff together is banned from Canada. He wont go there...he knows they will arrest him. They sent him papers saying they see him as a threat to society. I honor what they did there.

I think people panic that a right will be taken from all if it has some guideline rules with it. If they entire country just ran free with no guidelines it would be a bigger disaster then what we have today. A nation sometimes has to be the parent that was never there for some. Young people with little education may end up with this group for all the wrong reasons.

As a whole, America, I felt ashamed that we allow those groups to stand by our courthouses and march hate against a race with our American Flag. We should be beyond that as America, we should be proud to not allow such a thing to occur, we should stand for something besides 'say what ever the hell you want to say'.

There should be a guideline. IMPO.

I dont mean to unload all of that just onto you...this is my first response this morning and its been on my mind all night.



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