White holes.

Simple question.

A freind of mine had a speculation that on the other side of black holes, may be white holes.

I have never heard of white holes, and he changed the subject right after.

So,

What are white holes ?

Do they exist?

Deep

Heres my theory on black holes: Black holes have two sides. On one side, the light and matter enter. On the other side, dark matter is emitted from that very same light and matter. A conversion process. That means, that according to my theory, there are both sides in a Universe. The dark matter which we have speculated to make up most of the space in Space, comes from the conversion process of the black holes. That could mean one of two things: there are parallel Universes with the black holes acting as 'one-way doors', or there is only one Universe with black holes acting as teleportation devices. And no, not devices in the sense of them being machines (aka created by intelligent beings). Light enters side one of the black hole somewhere in the Universe, and comes out as dark matter somewhere else in the Universe. If dark matter is less dense than matter and/or light, than this could explain the expanding Universe. A little goes in, more comes out.

[Edited on 5-2-04 by xenophanes85]

I once heard the a "white hole" is a black hole when it is "reversed"... somehow.

If I had to make a choice... I would go with xenophanes85's theory instead

Great discussion of this at:

casa.colorado.edu...

Something I found while surfing. Hope it helps.

EDIT: Dang glee beat me to it.

The complete Schwarzschild geometry consists of a black hole, a white hole, and two Universes connected at their horizons by a wormhole.

The negative square root solution inside the horizon represents a white hole. A white hole is a black hole running backwards in time. Just as black holes swallow things irretrievably, so also do white holes spit them out. White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

casa.colorado.edu...


[Edited on 2-5-2004 by kinglizard]

as far as i know there hasn't been any actiual eveidence of white holes existing, only speculation and theories. i, for one, just think of black holes as matter collapsed too deeply on itself. and if the matter was going somewhere else, how come the blackholes can get bigger and bigger? sounds to me like the matter stays in the black hole.

Originally posted by kinglizard

EDIT: Dang glee beat me to it.

Yea, but your post is much prettier than mine. That graphic really catches the eye.

Whites Holes are an idea that came out of the
arithmetic half of general relativity. The only way
I can attempt to explain it is: Just as black holes
continually suck in matter and energy (except X-rays and/or Hawking Radiation), white holes being the
opposite would blow out matter and energy. I remember
a sci-fi show a long time ago (title escapes me atm)
that entering a black hole that is connected to white
hole could be used as a wormhole into an 'inverted'
universe. In short white holes are effectively anti-blackholes.

curious.astro.cornell.edu...

arxiv.org...

arxiv.org...

White Holes: Cosmic Gushers in the Universe by John Gribben would be a recommended read on the subject.

hope this helps

Originally posted by kinglizard
... White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

And again!

Originally posted by kinglizard
... White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

Do we have a good reason reason for thinking that a pretty graphic supersedes the second law?

I, like the Commander, am aware of no reasonable theory which describes or even allows for white holes. Unless, of course, they are caused by narrativium.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
as far as i know there hasn't been any actiual eveidence of white holes existing, only speculation and theories. i, for one, just think of black holes as matter collapsed too deeply on itself. and if the matter was going somewhere else, how come the blackholes can get bigger and bigger? sounds to me like the matter stays in the black hole.

Maybe becasue they just grow to allow more dark matter to be created? This could be why some scientists think the Universe is expanding faster and faster? That would mean that the other side grows too. Think of the water going down the drain. At first, the whirlpool is thin and tall. As the water level gets lower, the whirlpool becomes shorter and wider. Im not saying space is disappearing (as it would contradict with the expansion theory), but perhaps black holes are forever widening? The contradiction raised could also be an explanation why some scientist's think the Universe goes through cycles, or fluctuates in its growth. Or perhaps, the more matter and light there is around a black hole, the smaller it is. As the 'things' around the black hole get 'sucked in', the black hole expands to try to 'catch' more 'things'? Many theories.

I think I'm going to create another page on my website about this.

[Edited on 5-2-04 by xenophanes85]

Originally posted by StrangeLands
Do we have a good reason reason for thinking that a pretty graphic supersedes the second law?

I, like the Commander, am aware of no reasonable theory which describes or even allows for white holes.

I was just passing on the requested information so �stand down. Personally I�m more in line with cmdrkeenkid.

Originally posted by StrangeLands

Do we have a good reason reason for thinking that a pretty graphic supersedes the second law?

I, like the Commander, am aware of no reasonable theory which describes or even allows for white holes.

That is precisely the point of the article you'll find if you follow the accompanying link.

what's to say then that the matter is going anywhere into our universe? maybe the matter is being used to creat another. or maybe, it's just sitting there... taking up space.

Interesting links. Will need some time to saturate.

Black holes absorb any sort of matter/light that enters it domain, right? If so, where does this matter/light end up ?

Obviously that answer has not yet been found.

I guess I'll be spending the next few hours speculating this

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Interesting links. Will need some time to saturate.

Black holes absorb any sort of matter/light that enters it domain, right? If so, where does this matter/light end up ?

Obviously that answer has not yet been found.

I guess I'll be spending the next few hours speculating this

Deep

Black holes attract matter through gravity, just as the sun and the earth do. What happens to matter that is attracted to the earth? It crashes into the earth and stays there, that's what. Why would you think it is any different for a black hole?

I dunno.

I hardly know anything about Black Holes, dont ever get me started on why I asked about White !

They both seem interesting, and have remained one of the universes greatest dogmas.

I always thought that matter being absorbed into the black hole, simply disapeared somewhere unkown ?

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I dunno.

I hardly know anything about Black Holes, dont ever get me started on why I asked about White !

They both seem interesting, and have remained one of the universes greatest dogmas.

I always thought that matter being absorbed into the black hole, simply disapeared somewhere unkown ?

Deep

Deep, black holes are really fascinating things to think about, so I understand the urge completely. If you like to read scifi, you may have picked up the absorption idea there, as it is not uncommon.

And sure, if you think black holes are absorbing stuff, it makes sense to think there may be a corresponding thing, white holes, that emits what the black hole absorbs.

This is a link to a site with a very understandable explanation. Much more accurate than any I could give you. Do yourself a favor and take a look:

archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu...

No matter what anyone says on this board, I like to think about and discuss ideas outside of my education and experience. It's one of the ways I learn. And I believe there's no such thing as a stupid question. I hope I didn't make you feel as though you had asked one. If I did, I apologize.

ZeroDeep, cmdrkeenkid, this is precicely what my theory is suggesting. The light and matter 'sucked into' a black hole is either sent to a parallel Universe as dark matter, or is released into our own Universe as dark matter. It could explain the expansion.

A tangent thought: Is it possible to travel around a black hole like we can travel around stars, planets, etc? Supposedly, according to diagrams depicting what a black hole does to a grid representing Space, Space is on a plane, and black holes are indentations IN that plane. But how can space be on a plane (2D), when it is infact 3D? If planes are infinite, how do you get to the other side? If the Universe is 3D, what will we find on the other side?

I'm definitely going to have to create a webpage about black holes.

[Edited on 5-2-04 by xenophanes85]

I've covered this pretty well a while back. Check this thread if you'd like.

Black & White Holes Singularities
www.belowtopsecret.com...

The Search For Wormholes;

Wormholes can theoretically be detected by searching for gravitational lensing (which is the bending of light due to gravity) �signatures� in the direct vicinity of our galaxy. ANU astronomers have recently found a few potential �candidates� in the LMC whilst searching for MACHOs with positive-mass to explain the Dark Matter Conundrum (currently we are �missing� 95% of the visible Universe).
From these recent discoveries (which are not yet in peer-reviewed journals), a new sub-species of astronomical objects have been discovered and catalogued. They are GNACHOs (Gravitationally Negative Anomalous Compact Halo Objects). Astronomers in the Southern Hemisphere are getting close to confirmation of these most enigmatic objects.

What Wormholes Are, And How Were They Created;

A �Wormhole� is permitted by General Relativity and is a �short-cut� between regions of space-time. Most wormholes were born in the �Inflationary� period, directly following the Big Bang, during a few nanoseconds when it was possible for them to become stabilised by loops of negative-mass cosmic string (discontinuities in the structure of space-time).

How Wormholes �Work�;

One �mouth� of a wormhole is usually located in an extremely dense region of matter (like black holes � which I consider a member of the wormhole �family�), and the other end of the �mouth� is located in a very sparse region of matter. Mass will be consumed in the dense regions mouth and emerge from the sparse regions mouth and curve space-time OPPOSITELY. Through this action, the sparse regions mouth loses resultant mass, eventually reducing itself to zero-mass and finally NEGATIVE-MASS. (The opposite transit of mass works reciprocal, �mirroring� positive-mass).

Wormholes And The Use Of Them;

Wormholes can be used to INSTANTANEOUSLY travel between places which are spatially (and theoretically, dimensionally!) VERY DISTANT! Wormholes are perhaps the best evidence for the existence of the phenomena known as NONLOCALITY (communication faster than the speed of light at distances between elementary particles) in quantum theory.
Of course, a confirmed observation of a gravitational lensing event within the theoretical parameters predicted is still needed. I am hopeful of seeing confirmation of wormholes within my life-time.

To Fund A Search For Wormholes;

No University, organisation or government in their right mind would.
However, some astronomers are very sly at pursuing their �pet� projects.
Eg. Rogue elements have recently received funding under the guise of a search for Dark Matter (which is considered quite �respectable� in Astronomy circles).