Has anyone considered this Air France theory?

www.commondreams.org...

AMID THE media frenzy and speculation over the disappearance of Air France's ill-fated Flight 447, the loss of two of the world's most prominent figures in the war on the illegal arms trade and international drug trafficking has been virtually overlooked.

That's the first paragraph, and I'm sure it gives you a general idea of what the article is about.

Here's a rundown: two men onboard the doomed plane were named Pablo Dreyfus and Ronald Dreyer. I'm not gonna post their entire autobiographies here, but they were both somewhat important figures in legislative battles against arms and drug traders in Brazil and other countries.

Some of the comments to the article raise some very good points, in my opinion. To consider:

-It doesn't seem like they ever ticked off any of the larger, better equipped syndicates or dealers. Nor did they ever seem to cross the shadowy arms trading done covertly by countries like the US, UK, China, Russia, etc...

So, here we are, in summary: two colleagues (yes, they worked with each other) who had been fighting arms and drug trading in South America were onboard the flight when it went down. Were they murdered by some illegal goods dealers that they crossed through their work, or is it all a coincidence?

Sorry for the kinda choppy nature of this post. I haven't posted anything for a while and my writing is a bit rusty, ha. And, also, apologies if this has already been discussed. Feel free to deal with it as you see fit.

[edit on 6/8/2009 by Romantic Rights]

It sounds more and more like it was a series of technical failures combined with weather conditions that brought the plane down, but that is a really interesting theory. What is up with all the weird attention about the laptop they found? Maybe it belonged to one of them?

I'm not buying the technical failure theory. Days before a different flight received a bomb threat. What better way to divert attention from this flight?

I would say this theory is as possible as any.

Ya this situation REALY stinks, something happened that they are not telling us. I dont think we will ever know for sure.

Yes the following is real.
Here is a list of some of those that died and what they did...

The one that really sticks out is the the heir to the throne...yea I'd say that is suspicious.

• The two Americans were Michael Harris, a 60-year-old geologist in Devon Energy Corp.'s Rio de Janeiro office, and his wife, Anne, who had moved to Rio from Houston.
  
• One man was a descendant of Brazil's last emperor. Prince Pedro Luis de Orleans e Braganca, 26, a member of Brazil's now-defunct royal family and a descendent of Dom Pedro II, the nation's last emperor, was on the plane.
  
• a Hungarian therapist who worked with children with motor disabilities in Budapest was traveling with her 7-year-old son.
  
• French tiremaker Michelin had three executives aboard the plane, including Michelin's president for South America, Luiz Roberto Anastácio, 50, who had been promoted May 4 and was traveling to France to meet fellow top executives.
  
• Ten salesmen and their spouses from CGE Distribution, a French electronics supply company, had won company prizes of a trip to Brazil.
  
• The dancer, Eithne Walls, 29, had gone on a two-week vacation in Brazil with two other women who had graduated from medical school in 2007 from Ireland's Trinity College Dublin.
  
• A woman from Dublin had toured with the Riverdance troupe for years and performed at Radio City Music Hall.
  
• Five Britons aboard included Arthur Coakley, 61, a structural engineer from near Whitby, North Yorkshire.
  
• Turkish harpist Fatma Ceren Necipoglu was also on the plane, having recently held two recitals at the Fourth Rio Harp Festival, Turkish media report.
  
• Canadian Brad Clemes, a 49-year-old Coca-Cola executive working in Brussels.
  
• German-based ThyssenKrupp Steel AG said executive board member Erich Heine was on the flight, as was 28-year-old employee Claus-Peter Hellhammer of Duisburg, Germany.
  
• The mayor of Rio de Janeiro's cabinet chief, Marcelo Parente, was also said to be on board, as well as the former head of the Rio municipal theatre's symphony orchestra, Silvio Barbato.
  

[edit on 8-6-2009 by warrenb]

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
It sounds more and more like it was a series of technical failures combined with weather conditions that brought the plane down, but that is a really interesting theory. What is up with all the weird attention about the laptop they found? Maybe it belonged to one of them?

What laptop, sorry for my ignorance here but i think i missed it.

Thankyou

Very interesting theory, so how do you suppose they did it?

Come on people,
that aircraft model has a history of pitot tube failures.
Such a history that the mfg designed a replacement part that wasnt so prone to icing up.
And they informed all of their customers and supplied the parts needed to replaced, which was not done on the aircraft that went down.

reply to post by punkinworks09

Welcome to the wonderful world of deregulation! I have been around a lot of commercial pilots and every one of them has spoken out about this. One of them even got fired by Useless (US Airways) after a 20/20 camera crew did a poor job of disguising him in one of their undercover reports.
I've seen smaller planes and jets that literally were duct taped together, BAD nightmares afterward.

where is everyone getting this "icing up" BS?
it's a tropical place...where are is this magic ice coming from?

The weather for Brazil in that area for June 1 2009 was:

Temperature:
Mean Temperature 22 °C
Max Temperature 26 °C
Min Temperature 19 °C

Moisture:
Dew Point 18 °C
Average Humidity 81
Maximum Humidity 94
Minimum Humidity 65

Precipitation 0.0 cm
Sea Level Pressure 1011.00 hPa

Wind Speed 11 km/h ()
Max Wind Speed 32 km/h
Visibility 9.0 kilometers

data source here, includes all kinds of graphs and hourly weather for that day

Blaming the weather is pretty bogus

reply to post by TheComte

Terrorist threats are a way of life in parts of South America, every drug dealer or wanna-be dictator is blackmailing someone in the government. Remember, this is a continent where passengers applaud the pilot after a flight for NOT crashing into a mountain or the water, it is really dangerous terrain down there in some areas.
Still, it does make you wonder, and at best it is a horrible coincidence. I can;t help but think how bad their last few minutes were, no one should have to go through that.

reply to post by warrenb

The atmosphere at cruising altitude (20,000 feet or so) is freezing, that is why most stowaways they find in cargo or wheel wells are dead of exposure or have frostbite. They just found someone two days ago from Ethiopia on a US-bound flight and it sounds like he has complications of frostbite but they are sending him back.

reply to post by warrenb

Why is the heir suspicious? They no longer have a monarchy and there's was a very wealthy or notable lineage. I'd dare say no one outside the region ever heard of them.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Among the first items found in the wreckage was a laptop computer and plane ticket in a briefcase. They have not released the names of who they belonged to which is to be expected in an investigation.

reply to post by warrenb


are you kidding me?


your pulling weather data at the surface and applying it to an aircraft in flight.
Ice does form on aircraft in the tropics if your altitude is high enough, like the 35K feet that the a330 flies at.


There is the possiblity that it was abomb but it is more likely it was just an accident, planes do fall out of the sky on occasion.

Well it would certainly be a possibility... an incredibly slim possibility for any given flight, but as the article says if you average out all the filghts ever made and all the meteors then the numbers do become believable.

I guess no one will ever really know unless they can recover enough wreckage - those flight recorders would help but that's very deep water there.

It would fit in with the no contact from the pilots but the 24 automated data transmissions about the failures.

I think overall though human factors are far more likely, terrorism? No one has claimed responsibility though - massive and sudden structural failure is where my money is.

Originally posted by punkinworks09
reply to post by warrenb

 

are you kidding me?


your pulling weather data at the surface and applying it to an aircraft in flight.
Ice does form on aircraft in the tropics if your altitude is high enough, like the 35K feet that the a330 flies at.


There is the possiblity that it was abomb but it is more likely it was just an accident, planes do fall out of the sky on occasion.

because it "can" fly at 35k doesnt mean that it was...

go with door 2

i gotta say again how bad i feel for the families. absolutly horrific. there's
another thread just came out also. possible meteor yall should check that too. i tell ya this, anything that raises enough suspicion like these 2 being
on board, should be investigated to the hilt. i'm sure Interpol is looking at that right now.dosn't mean we'll here of it though. maybe later. good thread.

Originally posted by Now_Then
one has claimed responsibility though - massive and sudden structural failure is where my money is.

I'm surprised we aren't seeing more catastrophic failures, there was an FAA report some years back that estimated that a large percentage of the domestic commercial fleet was 30 or more years old. Old planes are often sold to foreign liners instead of being salvaged, Africa is full of very old planes which is one reason they have had so many crashes on that continent. It sure doesn't help that deregulation allows liners to cut costs by failing to upgrade or maintain equipment.

reply to post by warrenb

A stall at 35,000ft – the altitude at which Flight 447 was cruising – is hard to recover from in still air. In the heart of a furious tropical storm at night, it could be near impossible. High-altitude stalls claimed several aircraft in the early days of jet aircraft.

Link

Plain as day ... the jet was cruising at the standard 35000 feet (airliners cruise that high because the air is generally smoother as well as helps to save fuel) .

Ice forms at 35000 feet ... I have seen ice in between the outer and inner glass on a porthole many times while flying.
Altitude of a commercial jet



[edit on 9/6/2009 by deltaalphanovember]

Ice could definitely form up at the altitude Flight 447 was at...

And if there was malfunction or if parts were compromised... there's a high chance the plane couldn't take the icing and began to crack...

Also, I've read that one of the "causes" was that lightning struck the tube of the plane... can anyone double check that? Some other pilot flying in the same region spotted this.

At first I thought the plane hit some sort of air pocket and must have gone outta control, and then the random lightning in a normal-day cloud raised early suspicions for me, like some supernatural or metaphysical cause was the reason for its disappearance...

And then now, when I see the passenger list, the two officials fighting illegal drugs and arms in Rio de Janeiro seem very suspicious indeed. The heir, not so much, because the chance that someone in his cabinet would have the ability to rig such a catastrophe is low... but arms/drug cartels? Without a doubt, they would have the power to get inside and do something to the plane.

Still, whatever the cause, i feel absolutely horrible at the thought of a plane going from 35,000 feet to the sea. It must have exploded upon impact, but even before then, the sudden drop in height must have caused them to burst... And honestly, that is one of my worst nightmares. Plane crashes from such high altitudes.

There was one a while ago about a fire that occurred in the electrical compartment of a plane, and suffocated its two pilots to death, causing the plane to fall simlarly from a high altitude to sea level.

I was, and still am, horrified at these accounts.

Whatever the reason, let's theorize at best here, just out of respect, and we'll wait for the official explanation. If the explanation is poor, there's definitely something going on. Cover-ups?

Who knows? But for now, I have nothing but well-wishes in my head for those poor families.

A whole lotta love,
Karl

[edit on 9-6-2009 by KarlG]