Sentencing delayed in MySpace suicide case

Originally posted by Vitchilo
What kind of weak person kill himself over an internet boyfriend? You've got to be freaking weak. Anyway I kinda understand that at that age, you're messed up emotionally... but come on.

No excessive penalties should be applied... this ruling could affect real life... if someone dump someone else and the person dumped kill himself, will the person who dumped him be charged with murder? That's ridiculous.

People killing themselves over love affairs is common... will they start charging everyone who breaks up with someone else on attempted murder? Come on. People who kill themselves are the only ones responsable. They killed THEMSELVES, by their own hand. It's self explainatory... if you drink yourself to death, who is responsable? Yourself. Same thing here.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by Vitchilo]

So because an emotionally troubled child killed herself, she was "weak" and the grown adult that played the games with her head that pushed her to suicide should be let off?

You have problems yourself man.

Originally posted by antonia
I think many of you are being driven by your emotions. It's a terrible thing when someone kills themselves BUT, that is a personal choice. That's right, a PERSONAL choice. No one makes you kill yourself. I don't agree with throwing this woman in jail for the rest of her life. Is she a wicked woman? Oh yes, i don't dispute it but, you need to realize this is being used as a mover for cyber-bullying laws. Those laws will ultimately restrict the freedom of all people in this country. This girl was not a reactionary animal. She could have made another choice in how to respond to that woman's hateful behavior.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by antonia]

[edit on 19-5-2009 by antonia]

While I understand your points, there are many "choices" minor children are not permitted to make on their own. And that is for their own welfare. Such as the age of consent for instance. We don't let children have sex with adults and then accept that it was their choice. Kids cannot make these big life altering decisions, and suicide is the biggest.

The woman pushed a fragile child over the edge and deserves harsh punishment for it.

"The female of the species is always deadlier than the male"

I heard someone say that once- and it is oh so true. Women have been 10 times more cruel, conniving, evil, and should be giving satan lessons. Throughout history- women have shown themselves to be the snakish creatures they really are.

I have been thru similar experiences myself- been lead on, used, treated like common crap... and thru it all the woman looks (or tries to look) at me sweetly and asks "so, why are YOU bitter". I think this one needs to be taken out and horsewhipped in public- and then her AND her kid sent to Iran.

Originally posted by Angus123

While I understand your points, there are many "choices" minor children are not permitted to make on their own.

Suicide is illegal in most states from what i understand. It makes little sense as one can't bring you back from the dead and toss you in the slammer afterward. Regardless of your feelings on what minors should be able to do decide for themselves the simple fact is kids are killing themselves everyday. Obviously anything You or I have to say about it means nothing. it's a personal choice. You can tell them they aren't allowed to make that choice but it does not take the burden of the choice away from them.

And that is for their own welfare. Such as the age of consent for instance. We don't let children have sex with adults and then accept that it was their choice. Kids cannot make these big life altering decisions, and suicide is the biggest.

This is all irrelevant. You cannot go into a child's head and make them think another way. You cannot equate suicide with consenting to sex. Sorry, it doesn't work. Suicide is an action one takes alone. Sex is two parties humping away (therefore a consensus reached by two people excluding rape). You can't equate the two.

The woman pushed a fragile child over the edge and deserves harsh punishment for it.

External forces are the deciding factor here? I don't buy it for one second. This girl probably had many issues. Her parents did not monitor her behavior as they should have. If anyone is to blame it is the parents. They should have been there for her. They should have been protecting their child.

Originally posted by wylekat
"The female of the species is always deadlier than the male"

I heard someone say that once- and it is oh so true. Women have been 10 times more cruel, conniving, evil, and should be giving satan lessons. Throughout history- women have shown themselves to be the snakish creatures they really are.

I have been thru similar experiences myself- been lead on, used, treated like common crap... and thru it all the woman looks (or tries to look) at me sweetly and asks "so, why are YOU bitter". I think this one needs to be taken out and horsewhipped in public- and then her AND her kid sent to Iran.

I do not think this is necessarily true. Last year what turned out to be a pretend boyfriend turned out to be some man who gets his jollies pretending to be a caring Christian man and caring for a woman until she responds and falls for her. He was such a conman. As soon as he knew I had fallen for him, he went out and found a new woman, to pull the same tricks on, and then dumped me, claiming God told him she was to be his companion. The big flag I had before he dumped me, in crowded breakroom in front of all of my co-workers, was that a few days before he dumped me I discovered accidentally that he had been divorced not once, but 4 times. He had indicated to me he had been divorced 1 time. Then he believed he was one of final two witnesses from book of Revelation and wanted to get a sniper rifle and get on top of the Wal-mart (where he works) and take out a third of the people in the parking lot. He goes around telling people that I am crazy and that we never were in a relationship. He has something against women. He dumped the one that he dumped me for because she wanted to marry him too (he had acted like he wanted to marry me, even be a dad to my child). Last I heard, he is on to yet another woman, pulling the same scheme. And he always pretends to be a Christian while he's doing it, claiming that he has found favor with God. I don't know, but it seems pretty cruel and evil to me.

Lots of people of either gender can be cruel and evil.

reply to post by Angus123

The woman pushed a fragile child over the edge and deserves harsh punishment for it.

Isn't this case just an attack on free speech. There are many cases of vile, hateful and cruel speech and I'm sure this is not the first case of such a suicide. However have we considered the legal precedent that is being set? A little scary if you ask me. Am I now liable for how others react to my words?

[
U.S. District Judge George Wu had been scheduled to sentence Lori Drew on three misdemeanor counts of accessing computers without authorization.

HUH??? What kind of crime is that?

Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45

[
U.S. District Judge George Wu had been scheduled to sentence Lori Drew on three misdemeanor counts of accessing computers without authorization.

HUH??? What kind of crime is that?

It's similar to hacking or something.

Basically, since the woman used false information to create the account, violation of TOU, then she broke the law.

reply to post by antonia


No... perhaps I'm not being clear. I'm not equating sex with suicide.
I was only trying to illustrate that as responsible adults we can't just accept any "choice" made by a child.

And you have a very valid point about her parents. She clearly had deep problems that needed addressed. Where were her mom and dad?

That aside however, it doesn't negate the fact that a grown woman intentionally inflicted psychological harm on a little girl, and deserves punishment for her actions.

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by Angus123

 

The woman pushed a fragile child over the edge and deserves harsh punishment for it.

Isn't this case just an attack on free speech. There are many cases of vile, hateful and cruel speech and I'm sure this is not the first case of such a suicide. However have we considered the legal precedent that is being set? A little scary if you ask me. Am I now liable for how others react to my words?

Not necessarily. If someone shouts "fire" in a public building to create a panic and creates a risk to others, the person does not have the right to do so. This woman deliberately attacked a young girl, which she knew had suffered from mental instability and was vulnerable to depression and possible suicide, with the sole intention of inflicting as much harm as possible.

reply to post by Jessicamsa

Basically, since the woman used false information to create the account, violation of TOU, then she broke the law.

90% of those on dating sites had better beware... Also when is it up to federal Prosecutors to enforce the terms and conditions of a private company?

Originally posted by Angus123
reply to post by antonia

 

No... perhaps I'm not being clear. I'm not equating sex with suicide.
I was only trying to illustrate that as responsible adults we can't just accept any "choice" made by a child.

And you have a very valid point about her parents. She clearly had deep problems that needed addressed. Where were her mom and dad?

That aside however, it doesn't negate the fact that a grown woman intentionally inflicted psychological harm on a little girl, and deserves punishment for her actions.

The girl's mom knew about the situation, but thought the girl was just upset. The girl indicated she was okay at first, but then the mom found her dead.

I think other parents need to take a lesson from this though. People like this woman are willing to inflict harm on your children, just for the pleasure of doing so. And when the kids protest, teach them about the horrors. It's better they learn that way then the hard way.

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by Jessicamsa

 

Basically, since the woman used false information to create the account, violation of TOU, then she broke the law.

90% of those on dating sites had better beware... Also when is it up to federal Prosecutors to enforce the terms and conditions of a private company?

I do not know, but I think they wanted to do something in this case.

The woman has no remorse for anything she has done. She has even complained because the parents outed her in public and the public turned on her for it.

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by Angus123

 

The woman pushed a fragile child over the edge and deserves harsh punishment for it.

Isn't this case just an attack on free speech. There are many cases of vile, hateful and cruel speech and I'm sure this is not the first case of such a suicide. However have we considered the legal precedent that is being set? A little scary if you ask me. Am I now liable for how others react to my words?

There's a difference between free speech and manipulating a child.
The kid killed herself over a pack of lies told by an adult. Lies designed to inflict harm on her psyche.

We are all responsible for our words. That goes with the freedom of speech we cherish.
This is not about that though. This is about what she did to a child.

reply to post by harvib


My thoughts exactly, and where would the line be drawn? If such changes were made in law then we could see cases where, say, I could find myself facing criminal charges because I upset, insulted or argued with someone on a message board, and then at some point afterwards they comitted a crime of anger or took their life. I understand the case we are discussing is different from that scenario as the woman deliberately targeted this young girl in a pre-meditated hate campaign... but as I asked before, where would the line be drawn? Dangerous precedents could be set by this case.

reply to post by Jessicamsa

This woman deliberately attacked a young girl, which she knew had suffered from mental instability and was vulnerable to depression and possible suicide, with the sole intention of inflicting as much harm as possible.

Isn't this just speculation?

Again lets consider the legal precedent being set. It is frightening. Where is the line on where my liability ends. If I believe homosexuality to be wrong (Which I don't) and speak against and someone commits suicide am I now liable. Harsh breakups, coworkers picking on one another, etc. are all now open to prosecution depending on how individuals react to my free speech.

As for the fire example I believe the charge would be attempt to incite a riot. This case is not the same.

Originally posted by Angus123
reply to post by antonia

 

No... perhaps I'm not being clear. I'm not equating sex with suicide.
I was only trying to illustrate that as responsible adults we can't just accept any "choice" made by a child.

I'm saying you have no choice but to accept it. Once a human being has the thought of suicide it is decidedly in their power. Simply stating one doesn't have a choice does not remove the power to make the choice.

There's a difference between free speech and manipulating a child.
The kid killed herself over a pack of lies told by an adult. Lies designed to inflict harm on her psyche.

We are all responsible for our words. That goes with the freedom of speech we cherish.
This is not about that though. This is about what she did to a child.

That kid didn't kill herself over a pack of lies. That child had deeper issues. To boil it down to a horrid woman telling lies is superficial at best. This is about free speech because this case will be used to curtail certain behaviors on the internet. As awful as these woman's lies were she is free to make them in this country. you are free to make your own choices concerning your response to those words. The girl was free to do this as well.

You are operating on an outdated mode of thought. That is the Freudian concept of Stimulus-Reaction. Something happens (stimulus), you do something (reaction). The very fact you can read this words and come to your own line of thinking negates this theory of behavior. The true mode should be Stimulus-Thought-Reaction. In thinking and responding we are making a choice. You can choose another way. it is incorrect to say "You make me mad" or "You made me feel". You made yourself feel, you make yourself mad. You can choose different responses. The woman in question did not kill that girl. The girl chose to respond in that way. No matter how much you tell a child they do not have the power to make that choice it does not remove the power from them.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by antonia]

reply to post by Angus123

We are all responsible for our words. That goes with the freedom of speech we cherish.

I believe what you describe is restricted speech. Free speech means we are not responsible for our words. We are responsible only for how we react to others words.

This is about what she did to a child.

Again I ask you to consider the legal precedent you are asking to be set. If you are implying she killed the child or was the cause of her death, both of those are falsehoods, the child chose to take her own life.






[edit on 19-5-2009 by harvib]

This whole case is indeed a slippery slope... perhaps a slippery cliff.

If the creepy soulless actions of this woman result in a prison sentence, her case will set a precedent in restricting the 1st Amendment yet even further. Do I agree with what she did? Not only no, but #$%^ no. However, like a few posters here have stated, the real responsibility lies with the parents. I also have to disagree with some of the nihilistic perspectives. Yes, this 13 year old girl made a choice but was it well informed? At 13, peer pressure is everything. Not to mention, at that age these kids know everthing... just ask one and he or she will tell you. There is no such thing as wisdom at the age of 13... maybe in a few fleeting flashes, but rare. Kids are all too often TOLD WHAT TO THINK and not TAUGHT HOW TO THINK. To give this kid full responsibility for her actions is irresponsible. For those of you who have perfectly developed psyches and live your lives according to the tenants of Vulcan logic, I can only say yee-ha and kudos to you. It must be nice to feel no pain.

A thirteen year old kid (yes kid, not yet capable of criticle thinking, void of personal experience, and given too much freedom without any real lessons in responsibility) is dead and nothing can change that. Yet, as scummy as the actions of this lady were I don't want her to receive a sentence in court because it will affect how all of us will be able to communicate on the internet. I would recommend that any parents need to be the most influential force in the lives of their children. Give them freedom but let them know how much it cost. Let them know that they are worth something and that you would do anything necessary to preserve their well being. Do it through teaching, not by restricting (but if restriction is necessary, please provide a more sound answer than "because I said so.") We already have enough problems with the thought police which is one of the reasons I enjoy coming to ATS... there is a unique freedom of thought.

If one is unable to both earn the respect of their kids and teach their kids self respect, those kids will have a hard time making it in the world. There are kids out there experimenting with sex, drugs, and everything that they perceive to be the most important things about being an adult because that is what today's shallow and earthly culture sells them. If you are a parent and you are letting culture and society perform the bulk of your parental responsibilities, please put your children up for adoption to parents who may actually give a darn.

In closing, even if Lori Drew is found not guilty, everyone knows what she looks like and unless she gets some kind of reconstructive surgery, she and her family will be moving from place to place for a very long time. She has built her own case of personal tragedy through her own free will. She too made her choice. Now, if there are any adults on here who like to create fake MySpace profiles to mingle with and manipulate children, please for the love of God, go get some #$@!#^ help.

The mother who did his is teaching her child it is ok to disrespect someone , event o the point of death. Teaching this child, "me, me, me"

I think something should be done. I think they should have to do some kind of charitable service to others.

I do not agree on prison, because they did not actually kill the child, but some people just need to be taught empathy.