The Tribulation has already started, the Seals are being opened.

I have often wondered about the difference in time measurement in the bible to modern day time. A generation in the bible is 40 years but we know a generation as 100 years. It says in Genesis 6:3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." and this 2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With
the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. Humans do not normallylive for 120 years and have never lived that long in recorded history, even with our advanced medicine thisrarely happens.

Perhaps this is why the end time date will never be known to us. Biblical scholars have outlined these things that are to come and any net search will bring up thousands of pages and graphs and nice neat little lists to check off as these events unfold. What if they are wrong.

What if the seven seals, trumpets are already occurring? What if the tribulation is already at hand and has been for several years.

The world is already dominated by the G20 or G7 they pretty much control commerce, trade and the economy in general, they set the standards that all other countries must abide by, other than a few rouge nations, they control and dictate to all the world, we all assume that if a anti-Christ comes to power he would be standing there for us all to see. What if we are wrong.

All of these items on the checklists have been happening with greater frequency. All we have to do is look at the major headlines over the past decade to see the continual destruction of life, ecosystems, plus economic misery on a global scale.

Our civilization seems to be in peril, human greed is running rampant and wars are happening in far away places and we don't seem to care, do we really need this figure of the anti-Christ to come forward or has he already stepped forward in the hearts of men?

But you don't need an outdated religious text to tell you that the world is screwed.

Common sense should tell you those things, without having to believe in fantastical figures and angels.

No offence of course.

Our civilization seems to be in peril, human greed is running rampant and wars are happening in far away places and we don't seem to care, do we really need this figure of the anti-Christ to come forward or has he already stepped forward in the hearts of men?

Yes the spirit of the anti Christ resides in the hearts of men,

Actually I think anti Christ has reigned since the ascension.

Armageddon happened in the 1800's I hear.

We live in the best of times.

Don't get spooked by the new Pres.
He is the annointed one according to Hannity.

reply to post by mr-lizard maybe if you took the time to read that outdated book you wouldn't be so arrogant. also the Bible is a number one best seller

the wars and famin etc have always been going on. It seems like more and worse now because we can see it all on TV and more of it is being reported in modern days. 100 years ago there was non internet or TV, so not much stuff got reported, then there was TV and the only thing that was getting reported was what the government either wanted to report (properganda) or news that they would let be broadcasted. Now thanks to the internet, we are able to see everything being reported, hence why it seems so screwed up now because we know more of what is going on in the world.

Yes, there are an increasing amount of natrual dissasters (or "natrual) occuring, and this i believe (what i belive) is due to the change of the earth and sun spot activity.

Plus the beloved Revelations makes alot more sence if you read it as the destruction of the Roman empire. Which i suppose makes it continuesly relevent through anytime in history, for we are always in an empir, and every empire ends, and when an empire begins to crumble, the signs in revelations seems to be acted out.

Originally posted by echodogene
reply to post by mr-lizard maybe if you took the time to read that outdated book you wouldn't be so arrogant. also the Bible is a number one best seller

 

Arrogance ahoy... I've read it. Thankyou for judging me. That's not very Christian of you now is it? I suggest you re-read it. Here's a quote.

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you (Matthew 7:12).”

I still stick to my own opinion.



[edit on 11-5-2009 by mr-lizard]

[edit on 11-5-2009 by mr-lizard]

One theory that I heard awhile back was that the book of Revalations was based on the fall of the Roman empire since in the time of the New Testament, Rome was the center of the world.

I personally don't think it's happened yet but still, it's an interesting theory.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I do see your point, however there are 100 of millions of people all over the world that believe, and their beliefs just can't be discounted, cause and effect.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Yes the spirit of the anti Christ resides in the hearts of men,

Actually I think anti Christ has reigned since the ascension.

I think the battle first began with the ascension, but as long as there were people living tribal or old way lifestyles there was some sort of balance, but it has all been corrupted in our modern era, with money comes greed and all the other sins follow.

Have any of you seen any positive future outlooks? It seems the motto today is things will get much worst before it gets better.

reply to post by Anjin


Some theory's are that the Roman Empire never truly fell, it just morphed into the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

I do see your point, however there are 100 of millions of people all over the world that believe, and their beliefs just can't be discounted, cause and effect.

Absolutely true, but answer me a question.

Does believeing in something therefore make it true?

Have you ever considered that 100 millions of people used to believe in Santa Clause? Hundreds of millions of people believe in Allah, hundreds of millions of people used to believe that the earth was flat....

Can you see my point?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Have any of you seen any positive future outlooks? It seems the motto today is things will get much worst before it gets better.

Buddhism is quite positive. It certainly doesn't imply that we are all born of sin and ultimately have to repent or risk falling into fiery doom.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I do see your point, however all one has to do is open there eyes and look at the world we now live in. It is quite different than it was just ten years ago, different as in it is a much more ugly place.

It is my goal to discuss tribulation theory as it relates to our global meltdown in this thread not to debate the validity of the bible. Millions believing in something may not make it so, but there actions can sure help it out.

reply to post by mr-lizard you are right i have judged you, my appologies, you have read the good book?

reply to post by LDragonFire


In thats case, the believers and non-believers alike should be doing something positive for the world instead of arguing about which religion is right and wrong.

Yes, the world is in a bad state, but ultimately we are relying on the media to tell us that this is the case. We do not hear about the unsung acts of generosity, the acts of sacrifice and bravery and heart-felt goodness.
These occur on a daily basis, so maybe the world isn't as ugly as we make believe.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Thank you for re-iterating my point that I have been making elsewhere since 2003. (ATS since 2005).

We HAVE been in Armageddon for more than a century. Yes, since the 1800's. All anyone has to do is go to the numerous time-lines to see the difference in history and to see everything speeding up.

The GT is the "action" behind Armageddon. They are simultaneous.

With all that said, what does that mean? I am no longer religious nor do I call myself Christian. Does that mean that it looses significance in my eyes? No, but it did mean that I needed to redefine it!


Supposing it means something a little different?

I believe that there has been a Game of sorts between The Gods and that this signifies the end to their Game, not war! Mankind has been a loving experiment and it is time to end the experiment as far as this stage we are in, to move man to higher levels of evolution. To get us out of the lemming or gerbil stage.

Perhaps it is also time to get the earth back into proper healthy condition and so we are seeing many earthly changes. These changes would also affect man, and it has.

So I think that we have reached a stage in our evolution and earth's, where it is time for changes. Time-lines indeed support my belief, and that along with; The Gods telling me it is so!

reply to post by LDragonFire


I don't have time to dig out all the Bible quotes. Yes you are right that there are a lot of nice neat little graphs out there with not much of anything solid to back them up with. God never gave us a time line that this is going to happen, and then this, and that, and then the end.

The seals will be broken in order, but how fast or slow will they be broken we don't know. The tribulation could have been happening for years. Or WWII could have been a dry run for what is to come.

I'll give you something interesting to dwell upon. I forget exactly how this goes, since it has been awhile since I read this part. When Jesus killed and talked about the fig tree he talked about it coming back and knowing the seasons. Many have associated the fig tree with Israel. Israel as a nation would cease to exist and be scattered into other nations. Later on Israel would become a nation again. When that happened we know the season for the return of Christ has come.

Israel became a nation again in 1948. There for many pastors that talk about the end times claim that the season for the end times has started in 1948, and that generation will not pass. Christ will come before that generation will die.

If this were true, then the oldest a person will be able to live is 120, which would place the last date at 2068. Get this, I believe the average age a person lives to is round about 65 - 80. I know this may be stretching things, but the Mayan calendar ends at the year 2012. People who have been born in 1948 will be 64 years old.

Now look at the world today. The Bible says that we are suppose to see an increase of basically all natural disasters. The question becomes were there more natural disasters globally today than 60 or even 100 years ago? Are they increasing, and they increasing in intensity.

Has nation risen against nation? Are there wars and rumors of war? 1/3 of the Earth is suppose to be stricken with Famin. I know there is a lot of famine in Africa and some other places. Does that make 1/3 of the earth? Is 1/3 of the earth in war? Is 1/3 of the earth covered in wide spread disease? The Bible didn't say it had to be one particular disease, just that 1/3 of the earth is inflicted with disease.

What about the Antichrist? Is this a person? If so, is he or she already in power? If so, where is the most likely place they can have power over the world and yet not be well known to the general public? The head of the UN perhaps? If a global government does come into existence, I suspect those at the head of the UN would become the heads of the one world government.

What if the antichrist isn't a person? Could it then be a super computer that will take over everything when it is able to think for itself? Could it be an economy, where if you are not a part of that economy you can not buy or sell? You have to use some type of card or chip, because it would be a cashless society? What if the antichrist is more like the government in HG Wells book 1984. There is a leader that everyone can point to, but technically there is no leader. The leader is technically the one who is running the show behind the scenes.

How will we know that the antichrist is here? There are only two parts in the Bible where I could be sure. I could not buy or sell without some type of mark on my right hand or forehead. The antichrist is suppose to desolate the temple of God. I believe the one Solomon built in Jerusalem, but am not quite sure. That temple has never been rebuilt. Unless a new temple is build over the remains of the old one.

I'll watch out for not being able to buy and sell without a mark of some type.

The economy is very bad right now, and could get worse. If the economy crashes, it could make way for mark. I believe the mark deals with the economic side of things.

Have you noticed that there is a push going on for toleration of practically every type of religion including Islam? When people speak out against Islam, someone steps in and says wait a minute you don't understand. You are suppose to be tolerant. Even though we see and hear about the atrocities done to people in the name of Islam. Is there a religion you can think of were people are being persecuted just because they believe it? Islam persecutes Christians, and so does China. Christians are not well received in Europe. Even in this thread they are not considered in a good light with our book being considered archaic.

One last question, is good starting to be seen as evil and evil good in today's society? Was there anything that once was considered evil back in history, but is now being tolerated today? Why? Was it Christian view points that made those things evil back then. Now we came out of the closet so to speak, and have to tolerant politically correct ideas that changes how we see things and how we think.

For example, in history people would have been shocked if someone suggested killing a baby before it was born. It was considered evil and a part of thy shall not kill. It was even illegal to do so not too long ago in the US, until one rule changed everything. Now it is commonly practiced, and accepted by many. There are those who condemn the practice of abortion on the basis of principal, but there are those who condemn it as inherently evil, but they are mostly looked down upon. I have heard once that there were more deaths due to abortion, since it was made legal, than there were men killed in all the wars in the US history. How true that is I'm not sure, and don't have time to google it.

I have to go to work. Hopefully, I gave you some things to think upon.

Sorry to burst your bubbles but it hasn't happened yet unless the whole earth shook violently with trumpets blaring and most of us missed it. You will feel him and see his warning without a shadow of a doubt. The whole world will see Jesus just before the first seal is opened. Its called the great warning, The rapture will also happen at this time.

We have not seen the real Anti-Christ just yet. The Devil has not completely possessed him yet. He is Obama but not quite yet.

For it to already have happened we would have to had a thousand year reign of Jesus on earth with nothing but peace.

Damascus, Syria will also be utterly destroyed first and that has not yet even come close to happing in the history of the world.

It will all be over Hanukkah (Chanukah): 9 December 2012 (Sunday)
He (Jesus) will take his thrown in Jerusalem Christmas day of that year.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by Sky watcher]

reply to post by LDragonFire


Yes, this is the beginning of sorrows. It also depends on whether you belive in Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib.

We are at the 4th horseman of the Apocalypse. We have the pestilence problem, food crisis problem, the creation of a new global union.

I thought a biblical generation was 40/80 years. We can determine this by counting the years when the Jews regained their homeland May 14th 1948.

Kind of scary with May 14th coming up.

Ironically this is what the whole "thief in the night" prophesy is all about.

"The Bible is a lie within a lie within the Truth" - MatrixProphet

Knowing this then, would lead us to think that the Bible was written to set religious mankind up to fail. So they would look for their expected prophesies to take place, while right under their nose "It Already Has!" The thief prophesy would naturally be invalid if EVERYONE religious could see it happening!

The thief coming in the night was one of the most brilliant prophesies that The Gods could have come up with. Just one large part of a mystery book that is intended to be viewed as such, and not a religious manual that it has turned out to be. But...They knew this, and They allowed it!

Since it was written by man, for man, we cannot hold any of the Gods to the Bible. They let man manipulate it so as to achieve their (the Gods) goals. To blind those who center their lives on a book while missing the hidden messages therein, and amongst countless errors written from numerous copies, and never an original.

Truly brilliant, and only a few see it! Good for you; LDragonFire!

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

Yes, this is the beginning of sorrows. It also depends on whether you belive in Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib.

We are at the 4th horseman of the Apocalypse. We have the pestilence problem, food crisis problem, the creation of a new global union.

I thought a biblical generation was 40/80 years. We can determine this by counting the years when the Jews regained their homeland May 14th 1948.

Kind of scary with May 14th coming up.

I would like to thank everyone for posting, even if you don't agree with me or the topic.

I do not believe in the pre trib rapture at all, never have, never will.

However I do see us in a very uncertain time, if things get out on hand and I do think they are headed in that direction our very civilization is at risk from collapsing. Other sources unrelated to religion have claimed the same "end" we are most likely facing.

Be it from divine will, or that we as a race are so easily manipulated from words written so long ago, the facts remain that we are overpopulating our planet and it will be harder and harder to sustain such a large population. Add a natural disaster or two in the right areas and it will be the end of the world as we know it.

Water shortages, food shortages, damaged ecosystems both on land and the oceans, diminished natural resources, plus mans greed equals bad things to come.