Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked To Ozone Hole

Originally posted by melatonin
I don't need to show anything. It isn't my fault that you can't tell the difference between annual data and single season data. If I was you, I wouldn't rely on what you know about climate science that much. Take it as helpful advice, my apparently brazilian friend.

Who said I was an expert on climate science? I am not the arrogant one here, remember? You are trying to debunk a simple statement I made that different researchers much of the time get different data just because you need to think you know better. You should go treat that big inflated ego of yours. Just a friendly advice.

Am I the one with problems trying to grasp simple concepts?

If wintertime(antarctic maximum) avg is 0.6%. In order to meet 0.97% annual avg the other end, summertime(antarctic minimum), should have an avg groth of roughly 1.4% if linear. Right?

But if you are still not satisfied, take a look at this study from 2004 that I just found.

See what I mean? Scientists are always learning too.

Look, another possible example.

I have to go now, you are free to derail this thread as much as you want.

[edit on 30/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Am I the one with problems trying to grasp simple concepts?

Yeah.

If wintertime(antarctic maximum) avg is 0.6%. In order to meet 0.97% annual avg the other end, summertime(antarctic minimum), should have an avg groth of roughly 1.4% if linear. Right?

What about autumn and spring? A year has four seasons, lol. Just find the original research, it's pretty clear. You posted the thing through a media article, bleedin hell. It states that they found the highest increases in autumn.

Seasonal variations in weather are the norm. Again, you wanted to demonstrate a conflict by comparing two different measures, it's not much different to what you did earlier. Although, at least it was the same phenomena.

See what I mean? Scientists are always learning too.

That's what it's all about. But if you want to be da climate inquisitor, you'll need to grasp the basics first.

ABE: lol, I'm derailing. You're swell.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by melatonin]

People keep forgeting, that as I pointed out on another thread, and which like always melatonin dismisses because it refutes his religious belief in AGW.

Scientists have found that the ice caps are melting due to warmer seas, which seems to be caused by underwater volcano activity having increased. Since such research points to the fact that the melting is not being done by the atmosphere, which means it is not being done by CO2 in particular.

Oceanic Influences on Recent Continental Warming
GILBERT P. COMPO
PRASHANT D. SARDESHMUKH
Climate Diagnostics Center,
Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences,
University of Colorado, and
Physical Sciences Division, Earth System Research Laboratory,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
325 Broadway R/PSD1
Boulder CO 80305-3328
[email protected]
(303) 497-6115
(303) 497-6449

Citation:
Compo, G.P., and P.D. Sardeshmukh, 2008: Oceanic influences on recent continental warming. Climate
Dynamics, doi: 10.1007/s00382-008-0448-9.
This article is published by Springer-Verlag. This author-created version is distributed courtesy of Springer-Verlag.
The original publication is available from www.springerlink.com at
www.springerlink.com...

Abstract
Evidence is presented that the recent worldwide land warming has occurred largely in response to a worldwide warming of the oceans rather than as a direct response to increasing greenhouse gases (GHGs) over land.

Atmospheric model simulations of the last half-century with prescribed observed ocean temperature changes, but without prescribed GHG changes, account for most of the land warming. The oceanic influence has occurred through hydrodynamic-radiative teleconnections, primarily by moistening and warming the air over land and increasing the downward longwave radiation at the surface. The oceans may themselves have warmed from a combination of natural and anthropogenic influences.

www.cdc.noaa.gov...

Study finds Arctic seabed afire with lava-spewing volcanoes

The Arctic seabed is as explosive geologically as it is politically judging by the "fountains" of gas and molten lava that have been blasting out of underwater volcanoes near the North Pole.

“Explosive volatile discharge has clearly been a widespread, and ongoing, process,” according to an international team that sent unmanned probes to the strange fiery world beneath the Arctic ice.

They returned with images and data showing that red-hot magma has been rising from deep inside the earth and blown the tops off dozens of submarine volcanoes, four kilometres below the ice. “Jets or fountains of material were probably blasted one, maybe even two, kilometres up into the water,” says geophysicist Robert Sohn of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, who led the expedition.

www.canada.com...

Antarctic glaciers surge to ocean
By Martin Redfern
Rothera Research Station, Antarctica

...........

"The measurements from last season seem to show an incredible acceleration, a rate of up to 7%. That is far greater than the accelerations they were getting excited about in the 1990s."

The reason does not seem to be warming in the surrounding air.

One possible culprit could be a deep ocean current that is channelled onto the continental shelf close to the mouth of the glacier. There is not much sea ice to protect it from the warm water, which seems to be undercutting the ice and lubricating its flow.

Ongoing monitoring

Julian Scott, however, thinks there may be other forces at work as well.

Much higher up the course of the glacier there is evidence of a volcano that erupted through the ice about 2,000 years ago and the whole region could be volcanically active, releasing geothermal heat to melt the base of the ice and help its slide towards the sea.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Boiling Hot Water Found in Frigid Arctic Sea

By LiveScience Staff

posted: 24 July 2008 04:51 pm ET

Many miles inside the Arctic Circle, scientists have found elusive vents of scalding liquid rising out of the seafloor at temperatures that are more than twice the boiling point of water.

The cluster of five hydrothermal vents, also called black smokers, were discovered farther north than any others previously identified. The vents, one of which towers four stories high, are located on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge between Greenland and Norway, more than 120 miles farther north than other known vents.

Remotely operated vehicles photographed the scene as part of an expedition led by Rolf Pedersen, a geologist at the University of Bergen in Norway.

Black smokers have been found in many deep-sea locations, including on the Juan de Fuca Ridge off Washington and British Columbia. Despite the lack of sunlight to power life in the abyss, the vents often support unique communities of creatures that live off their warmth and chemicals. Some scientists think the vents would have been great locales for the origin of life on Earth.

www.livescience.com...

Giant Undersea Volcano Found Off Iceland[/size=4]
Richard A. Lovett
for National Geographic News

April 22, 2008

A giant and unusual underwater volcano lies just offshore of Iceland on the Reykjanes Ridge, volcanologists have announced.

The Reykjanes formation is a section of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, which bisects the Atlantic Ocean where the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are pulling apart.

As magma wells up from the rift between the plates, it cools to form ridges.

But it doesn't generally form giant volcanoes, said Ármann Höskuldsson, a University of Iceland volcanologist who was part of the international team that discovered the volcano last summer.

That's because mid-ocean ridges are constantly pulling apart, making it harder for large volcanoes to form without being torn asunder.

"We were doing a normal oceangoing mission, and we found a big edifice" about 90 miles (150 kilometers) south of Iceland, Höskuldsson said.

The structure turned out to be an active volcano that rises about 3,300 feet (1,000 meters) above the surrounding sections of the ridge, coming within 1,300 feet (400 meters) of the surface.

At its base the volcano is approximately 30 miles (50 kilometers) across. The peak contains a depression known as a caldera that is 6 miles (10 kilometers) wide.

news.nationalgeographic.com...
That indicates that the mountain is being fed by its own magma chamber, Höskuldsson said.

"It's a higher magma production that generates the edifice."

news.nationalgeographic.com...



[edit on 2-5-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Let's see how many underwater volcanoes could be out there.

Thousand of new volcanoes revealed beneath the waves
10:04 09 July 2007 by Catherine Brahic
For similar stories, visit the Mysteries of the Deep Sea Topic Guide

The true extent to which the ocean bed is dotted with volcanoes has been revealed by researchers who have counted 201,055 underwater cones. This is over 10 times more than have been found before.

The team estimates that in total there could be about 3 million submarine volcanoes, 39,000 of which rise more than 1000 metres over the sea bed.

"The distribution of underwater volcanoes tells us something about what is happening in the centre of the Earth," says John Hillier of the University of Cambridge in the UK. That is because they give information about the flows of hot rock in the mantle beneath. "But the problem is that we cannot see through the water to count them," he says.

Satellites can detect volcanoes that are more than 1500 m high because the mass of the submerged mountains causes gravity to pull the water in around them. This creates domes on the ocean's surface that can be several metres high and can be detected from space.

www.newscientist.com...

Let's read some more evidence as to what the recent increase in volcano, and magmatic activity is doing around the world.

Volcanic eruptions reshape Arctic ocean floor: study

by Staff Writers
Paris (AFP) June 25, 2008

Recent massive volcanoes have risen from the ocean floor deep under the Arctic ice cap, spewing plumes of fragmented magma into the sea, scientists who filmed the aftermath reported Wednesday.
The eruptions -- as big as the one that buried Pompei -- took place in 1999 along the Gakkel Ridge, an underwater mountain chain snaking 1,800 kilometres (1,100 miles) from the northern tip of Greenland to Siberia.

www.terradaily.com...

And

Heat From Earths Magma Contributing To Melting Of Greenland Ice

ScienceDaily (Dec. 18, 2007) — Scientists have discovered what they think may be another reason why Greenland 's ice is melting: a thin spot in Earth's crust is enabling underground magma to heat the ice.

They have found at least one “hotspot” in the northeast corner of Greenland -- just below a site where an ice stream was recently discovered.

The researchers don't yet know how warm the hotspot is. But if it is warm enough to melt the ice above it even a little, it could be lubricating the base of the ice sheet and enabling the ice to slide more rapidly out to sea.

www.sciencedaily.com...

And

Melting Glacier Shows Heat Under Alaskan Volcano
Dan Joling, Associated Press

Feb. 2, 2009 -- Geologists monitoring Mount Redoubt for signs of a possible eruption noticed that a hole in the glacier clinging to the north side of the volcano had doubled in size overnight -- and now spans the length of two football fields.

Scientists with the Alaska Volcano Observatory on Friday flew close to Drift Glacier and spotted vigorous steam emitted from a hole on the mountain. By Saturday, they had confirmed the area was a fumarole, an opening in the earth that emits gases and steam, that was increasing in size at an alarming rate.

They also saw water streaming down the glacier, indicating heat from magma is reaching higher elevations of the mountain.

"The glacier is sort of falling apart in the upper part," research geologist Kristi Wallace said.

dsc.discovery.com...

But hey, "melatonin", who is no scientist, is once again dismissing all of this evidence, and more.

If anyone else, or I kept looking for underwater volcanoes melting glaciers we will find a lot more articles of this being a reality.

Are we going to trust what real scientists are saying, or are we going to wallow in ignorance like melatonin is doing, and dismiss all this evidence because "melatonin says so"?.....

[edit on 2-5-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

BTW, do take a look at a satellite image of Antarctica warming, and where it is concentrated...



Now, take a look at where Antarctica's Volcanoes are located...



Anyone notice that there is massive warming in Antarctica on the west side, exactly where all of Antarctica's volcacoes are located?




[edit on 2-5-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

This is actually quite an informative thread.

What I have got out of it is scientists have evidence for every theory, yet none can be proved true.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by breakingdradles]