I wanted to bring forward what I think is the problem with economics and a possible solution. The world is seeing the effects of greed and deception with the potential for the greatest collapse ever seen. Why? So a few people can gain from the in-debt majority of the world.

Why would you ask that I say I'm sick of capitalism? It is preached as the perfect economic model for people that believe that they are free. IMO this is one of the biggest deceptions ever portrayed. Dangle a carrot in front of the horse with no potential to ever get more than a taste. Yes a few have made their riches from this model and good for them, but what about the other 80% of the world that lives in poverty? The next 10-15% does not get to live much better than poverty.

So then what model should we use? Socialism? Fascism? But that would give the government too much control, and we already don't trust them. This is my next beef. Government has turned into a ruling organization with their best interests into Capitalist Lobby groups. This drives capitalism instead of representing the people. Yay Capitalism..... everything is going private which means it's only there for you so someone can profit from it. This would be fine if it was your next door neighbor that was offering you this service so he could support his family, but no... it's the massive corporations that have more influence than your own governments.

Government seem to love capitalism as well. Why? Every service that you use that is private takes away from the responsibility of the government. Just some loose regulations so that they have the illusion of government involvement. Handing over to the private capitalistic world limits the say in how the people want things to be. Look at the private medical systems, the private education systems, all built on profit which does two things to divide the people and their needs. Only the wealthy or highly insured can get the benefit of this system, and the needs of the rest have been left unfulfilled due to their normal status in society. How does this better a society?.... with more taxes and less service to its people.

How can they get away with this? Easily… the majority of the people fall in this category which makes them the norm. You are more willing to accept pain and suffering if everyone else around you is suffering as well. Don’t get me wrong, first world countries have a way better standard of living than those in third world countries, but the scheme is the same. Have the majority of the people indebted to the few ruling corporations and governments. Where debt cannot be used in the world to control people, basic survival is used to get away with slave labor. It has happened this way for so long that this is accepted as the normal way of human life.

So I just don’t rant in this thread, I’ll point out what I believe is one logical solution to our problems, and no it’s not a one world government; it’s a one world people. For too long there has been too much division of people in countries and even in countries. We need to realize that we have evolved both as a species and technologically that just because we have done it this way since the beginning of time, doesn’t make it right. Basic needs of all should be provided to them at no cost. Every person should have the human right to food, lodging, medical care, and education. Anything that qualifies as a need should be provided at no cost to anyone. But this would cost too much and taxes would be ridiculous you say…. No… no we wouldn’t have taxes. Then how would we pay back all that debt owed to the banking corporations? Easily…. In fact it would shock you how simple it would be to erase debt. But the government would never go for this extreme of a change you argue….. there would be no government. What needs to be done is to take away the greed of the few and give the power back to the people. Every argument here I will briefly explain in some detail how it can be done, and I hope that others will see the logic in it.

The first thing I will explain is money. Money is probably the biggest problem in the world throughout its history. You might ask how we could even possibly get away from the ties of money in our lives and have no revolt or banks reposes all of our belongings. My answer is simple…. Resources. Resources are something every part of the world has either material resources or human resources including technology and labor. A certain amount of resources is expected by each region to fulfill the basic needs quota. Each resource will have its value in a free market that is based on global supply and demand. These resources can then be labeled with a value compared to something like gold. So now we can have a gold standard which I hope everyone is familiar with. People are no longer paid a wage or salary per say, since the majority of labor is now considered a resource, which pays for the basic needs. How do you pay your debt to the bank off then? Let me explain a little further down. For now just realize that resources are now the currencies of the world. Something tangible that can always be measured.


[edit on 23-4-2009 by airteck]

Now I will explain how we can pay off personal and country debt easily. Not everyone will have the same degree of demanding job or expertise, and this is where luxury pay comes into effect. Labor is a resource and therefore gives an individual value depending on their occupation. Everyone has a base quota of labor they have to fill, and after that they earn what I will call a luxury pay. Since it is a resource it will have a value against the gold stand, for my example I will say that one month for a certain individual gets them one ounce of gold standard. You can now use this ounce of gold against your debt. Well that is not going to pay off anything you complain…. Actually, it will go a lot longer than you’d expect.

Now that we no longer use the non-backed currencies, everyone would be selling off their dollars for resources. The value of the fake fiat money would disappear to the point where you could pay back your debt within months. That and the banks would be done. You now have a debt free life that you can put your money towards luxuries once equality has been achieved. This could be better housing, vacations, eating out, and other things that are listed as a luxury. All items would have a new value based on this new resource standard.

The government would never let this happen since they are controlled by corporations and this is why all governments would be disbanded. We live in an age where technology can allow the people to govern themselves. A voting system could be set up so everyone could have a say on the matters that governments usually handle. I know farmers that have a hell of a lot more sense than the majority of politicians in office today. Let us let the majority of the vote rule where humanity goes, not some lobbied politician that doesn’t even read what their signing into law. Representatives would still be used, but only to communicate the actual concerns of the people and not their personal goals. Common sense is in our DNA(I hope), and would illuminate half the stupidity that goes on through politics.

Borders would be eliminated, majority of companies would be bought out by the people. Hopefully as times goes by the people would own everything taking out the greed and control that owns us currently. Since resources would be used as currency, we would end up with recycling close to 100% over time eliminating the need to rape our planet wastefully. Every man, woman, and child would at least have the basic needs that offer them the potential to become what they want. The standard of living would rise for everyone, and over time all would live with the luxuries that we take for granted every day, without the massive debt.

I know my logic is simple and the steps to accomplish something of this magnitude seems impossible, but without a drastic change in our current world we are doomed to possibly kill humanity and the planet we live on. The sacrifices that would be needed by some to give equality to others would be an astounding task. I for one would give up my first world luxuries so others could become equals and so the corporations of the world could crumble from power. Unfortunately, this would take all the people in the world to come together, and half of them to sacrifice their standard of living temporarily until equality is achieved.

Thanks for letting me vent. It’s easy enough to shoot holes through my logic, but I am only one person that would like to see change. Just imagine what would happen if we all came together to come up with a solution for the entire population of this blue planet we live on.

Your logic is graciously noted, only one problem, the human need for greed.
Basically what you just described is communism. Not the communism we all think about where the government is total control, but the actual doctrine itself. Everyone is equal and we all work together for the common good. Once again the human factor will not allow your plan to work. Some may go along with it until someone finds a way to get an upper hand, more of whatever to improve their standing or improve their luxury. Human nature will not let it happen. Sad? Yes, but true. Some people have the need to feel powerful while others don't want to do anything but exist. So until all the people of the world can be either brainwashed to believe in helping one another based on passion rather than profit, or science can find a way to eliminate the greed and power thoughts from our brains we will just have to live with what we have. These are for sure nice thoughts of utopia. Good Day.

One question that came to mind when I saw a similiar post before.

What about jobs that only consume resources and doesn't generate them? How exactly is that measured in your social model? I will go into specifics if needed after reading your response.

In addition, how exactly does cross-community develpments get managed if there is no government? This would include interstates, utilities, health care, education. You said there would be no government, but no explanation on how that would be managed.

Although my attention span is short and your post was rather lengthy, what I surmise is that your leanings are neither independent, libertarian or republican. Having said that- Everything is driven by some sort of Capitalism.
All governments whether communist,socialist,democratic or any mix thereof are for power and money.

As our Country was founded a Republic, and with a smaller national gov rather that larger we for a long time prospered. We all need Government but what makes a society prosperous is the lack of government. As the USA had been without a doubt the wealthiest group of people on the planet ever, tells me that what we started out with is the best type of government the world has ever seen. Sadly greed and power have corrupted what we use to have.

There has never been a Country that has had the populace as wealthy as a whole as we have been.

I know I rambled but as I stated earlier, my attention span is short.

I read your post and the one word that keeps popping into my mind is naivety. Different gangs of the same ethnicities can't get along in a 20 city block radius. Africans are committing genocide on their own people and neighbors. Muslims kill each other based on different sects of the same religion. A one world govt does not solve any of these problems. How is Capitalism to blame in Darfur? China? Saudi Arabia?

My experience with Capitalism vs. other governmental forms is this:

With Capitalism, 90% live a comfortable, fulfilling life. 10% live in poverty
With Communism, Dictatorship, Monarchy, etc. 10% live a comfortable, fulfilling life, with 90% living in poverty.

The idea that our founding fathers had is that Capitalism is not perfect and needs to be destroyed and rebuilt every now and again, to keep tyrants and corporations at bay. We have not done this and it is long over due.

The "Perfect" government does not exist. It never will.

The problem with what you stated is that capitalism is not a government form. It is an economic system. Communism falls under both categories. There is nothing written by our founding fathers indicating that capitalism needs to be overthrown. However, they did state that our republic needed to be renewed with the blood of revolution every so often. Where exactly are your sources on this?

My ideology attacks the areas that I see as problematic. The system I laid out is still capitalistic, but only after the standard needs have been met. By having a system where anyone and everyone has a place to live, eat, sleep, and any education that their potential demands. Governments as we know them would have to disappear, but the foundation that the government is, would stay in place. Countries would still have to have their independence so cultural heritage to stay intact along with their beliefs. Their infrastructure would still be under the same control as before, but now it is a need that would be determined on size and population, not wealth.

By eliminating Interest and debt, we would eliminate the ability to feed greed to the extent we have today. Creating a basic standard of living for more than just first world countries is my main argument, along with outing the corporations that have a stranglehold on all.

Conflict in the world today is a challenge on its own and has no simple answer. But.... by creating a world that everyone's basic needs are met and the potential to be more than a victim through education, would at least open opportunities for change and growth. One of the biggest reasons for conflict is oppression. Create a balance for all and what we create is potential. A lot of people in third world countries are just trying to survive through starvation and disease. Imagine the change if they had this basic right along with skills and resources to excel.

As far as for businesses that only consume resources, nothing would change too drastically. People would own the natural/recycled resources including a set amount of labor resources. If you had to compare it to something then these labor resources would be taxes. Consider going to work for a private company and you would get only paid the luxury pay from your employer. This would be a minimal amount since all your basic needs are covered in the new system. This would be food, housing, clothing, power, Internet, ect. and anything else the people want considered part of the standard of living. The higher the standard of living, the less luxury pay people would earn since it is provided for them.

Like I said before, this system would only work if we had a technologically sound system to control equality and prevent abuse. Luxury pay is what would get you better than the standard and would be based off your level of education/experience, or having your own business that provides a luxury service.

Again, this is only a vision in my head, and the hope that one day we can put aside our difference and strive for more as a species.

It was only my opinion, no sources needed. And yes I agree capitalism isnt a true government form. But it is the cornerstone of our Constitutional Republic and I think it is safe to say that these days they are one in the same.