Bye Bye Freedom... Welcome to the land of opression!

This doesn't appear to have been given its own thread yet, so here goes...

I'n in the UK and I have noticed what seems to be a pattern of action by our governtment. The news about compulsory ID by 2014 brought it to my my attention again. This pattern started in September 2001. The government passed the terrorism act 2001, allowing people to be detained without charge or trial indefinitely. Then David Blunkett starts trying to introduce ID cards, with biometrics, DNA etc. saying "it will help fight terrorism." I don't see any evidence for that statement whatsoever.Spain has ID cards - look at Madrid! Then there is a 50% increase in MI5 staff, the agency used for domestic spying. The big questions is... Is the government using the fear/threat of terrorism to reduce civil liberties and possibbly even oppress its own people?
By changing our own routines so much by carying ID cards we are actually handing victory to the terrorists. I am for the war on terror in general, but surely something must be done about this?...

ahhh yes, we'll lose so much of our freedom! we may have to spend an extra 0.5sec rummaging through our wallets to find our sainsburies club card!

was bein sarcastic btw.

This terrorist act has been boging me for sometime, they can actually take away our rights in the name of national security, I dont understand why this president is so fixiated into keeping this act active when since after 911 have not been any attacks of that magnitud, this act was just to be enforce for only a short period of time.

Since when did the Brits care about their own personal freedoms? The British government has some wicked laws about what the government considers "secret." Cameras are everywhere in the cities, and they are not only for "traffic." Face recognition technology is getting better and better, I wouldn't be surprised if the UK police and Government security apparatchik don't already use the software.
Also, the separation of the military and police agencies has always been non-existent. More like cozy cooperation.
Orwell wasn't American.


Variable

ok, you're crazyer than ME!

thats a bad thing

Originally posted by minimi
The big questions is... Is the government using the fear/threat of terrorism to reduce civil liberties and possibbly even oppress its own people?
By changing our own routines so much by carying ID cards we are actually handing victory to the terrorists. I am for the war on terror in general, but surely something must be done about this?...

I totally agree with you. All this pandemonium about terrorism is blinding the public to the true aim of te government. They think the Patriot Act is OK because it helps catch terrorists. Well I haven't seen one terrorist captured because of it yet. And why ID cards? Why do we really need them? Do terrorists really have to worry about a police man walking up to them and asking to see their ID card? NO! and how hard would it be to get an ID card? These terrorists proved that they can do some pretty terrible things under our noses already.

it is being done slowly and surely and little by little but the big move is going to take a massive incident which they are planning now which will involve multiple explosions in multiple countries and the enactment of marshall law so they can finally make the world a cashless society...the one world government comes later

Is the government using the fear/threat of terrorism to reduce civil liberties and possibbly even oppress its own people?

Yes.

By changing our own routines so much by carying ID cards we are actually handing victory to the terrorists.

Our governments have created terrorism, promote terrorism, and support it. The people who are actually in control are terrorists themselves... Why do you think the US invaded Afganistan and Iraq? Opium and oil...

And yes, the Talaban was a CIA project designed to fight the Soviets during the 1980s... Just like Saddam Hussien was used to fight Iran.

Take everything in the media with a grain of salt... We are surely NOT free.

I am for the war on terror in general, but surely something must be done about this?...

Want to stop terrorism? Stop supporting your government...

I can't comment on the government of the UK, as I don't live there, but the thread title immediately made me think of 'Monty Python: The Quest for the Holy Grail' ...

WOMAN:
Well, how did you become King, then?
ARTHUR:
The Lady of the Lake,...
[angels sing]
...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS:
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
ARTHUR:
Shut up, will you? Shut up!
DENNIS:
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR:
Bloody peasant!

FUNNIEST MOVIE EVER. PERIOD.

I'm personally horrified by Mori polls that show 80% support for ID cards in the UK. Seems like most of the people in this country are sleep-walking towards an Orwellian future.

But as one of our US friends pointed out, no-one seems bothered either by the security cameras following us everywhere, or the Oyster card which tracks your movements as you travel round London. It doesn't take much effort to hook an Oyster card up to a security camera and then spotty geeks everywhere can stalk pretty women across London just by finding out their names. What a wonderful world!

Anyway, it seems that the UK populace have fallen into a trap of it's own making. Everyone's got so paniced about illegal immigration that they're perfectly happy to be stamped and registered. The fun times will begin when they realise that the only way biometric information makes a system more secure, is when that information is checked every time ID has to be verified....

"Hello Doctor."
"Hi there, can we just scan your IRIS to verify who you are?"
...

Ridiculous concept, but the people of the UK have so far said "yes"!!

All this made me think about the crime rate in the UK, it's has been allowed to sore, so local agencies can justify the installation of CCTV everywhere.

"The cameras are there to help provent crime, not to watch you" (yeah right)

If crime get's out of hand, ID cards will be easy to get public endorsment. People will also call from more cops to help stop criminals, bingo a police state. All in the name of stopping terrorist ad crime

Yep, scary isn't it?
Of course when you mention this to friends/colleagues, they always come back with the old favourite - "Well, if you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about!"
It must be so nice, being blissfully ignorant and unaware of what's going on around you....

Snoogans, that's perhaps the one saving grace for us people who realise what's going on... As ID cards get closer to coming in to general circulation, more people will start to realise what's entailed by having biometric ID cards, and more people will stop wanting them.

Same thing happened in Australia where near total support for ID cards turned around completely in the 3 years it took to prepare the system for rollout. In the end Australia gave up on the idea.

Of course, Blunkett and Blair would probably use the "we have no reverse gear" excuse if it came to that, but perhaps they'd be enough mass-protest that they'd never reach the 80% margin required to make the cards compulsory. Unless Blunket goes ahead with the "encouragements" he's been hinting at, i.e. ID card must be shown to purchase alcohol etc. etc.

I hate this Labour government more every day. The sooner they're out of power the better.

Originally posted by minimi
Is the government using the fear/threat of terrorism to reduce civil liberties and possibbly even oppress its own people?
By changing our own routines so much by carying ID cards we are actually handing victory to the terrorists. I am for the war on terror in general, but surely something must be done about this?...

Yes, terrorism as sponsored by the Government is one of their best weapons currently against the citizens of each respective country, more so I think in the U.S.A.

The introduction of stricter laws is only for greater controls on the population in general for those of us who might "rebel" against the system.

Make no mistake, the Government already has a good grip on monitoring it's citizens--anti-terrorism laws are just one ingenious way to further that control and surveillance of the population.

What can be done about it? Education and critical thinking. One has to think about the system, how Governments operate, where the money flows. Most of all--who are you working for?--Once you ask this question, keep going up the levelled pyramid and you'll be surprised.

Originally posted by dom
I'm personally horrified by Mori polls that show 80% support for ID cards in the UK. Seems like most of the people in this country are sleep-walking towards an Orwellian future.

But as one of our US friends pointed out, no-one seems bothered either by the security cameras following us everywhere, or the Oyster card which tracks your movements as you travel round London. It doesn't take much effort to hook an Oyster card up to a security camera and then spotty geeks everywhere can stalk pretty women across London just by finding out their names. What a wonderful world!

Anyway, it seems that the UK populace have fallen into a trap of it's own making. Everyone's got so paniced about illegal immigration that they're perfectly happy to be stamped and registered. The fun times will begin when they realise that the only way biometric information makes a system more secure, is when that information is checked every time ID has to be verified....

"Hello Doctor."
"Hi there, can we just scan your IRIS to verify who you are?"
...

Ridiculous concept, but the people of the UK have so far said "yes"!!

(replying to whole post; justified mass quoting)

I too was horrified by the results of that poll showing 80% support. The way to stop this is the ATS motto: "Deny Ignorance". Why does the general pucblic seem to hate the idea of anyone immigrating here. The mmigrants are not taking jobs away from us, they are actualy helping us by working in industries with a lack of personnel. The sooner people realise immigrants benefit are country the better. We must deny them this ignorance.

Good point about oyster cards; I'd never thought of it; and had always wondered what benefit they were over a travelcard anyway.

And what happens when someone ateals your biometric identity (not the card, but hacks it etc.) You may be able to chnge your password, but if someone gets your iris data from the computers; what can you do about it? Can't exactly get a new iris!

Originally posted by Snoogans
Yep, scary isn't it?
Of course when you mention this to friends/colleagues, they always come back with the old favourite - "Well, if you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about!"
It must be so nice, being blissfully ignorant and unaware of what's going on around you....

This is a view share among many of mes copains too.They are the ones that will eventually lead us into beng chipped like pet dogs, probably with gps transmitters too. I dont understand why the people of this coutry can't see through it. Is is clear that the threat of terror is over hyped up.

Snoogans, that's perhaps the one saving grace for us people who realise what's going on... As ID cards get closer to coming in to general circulation, more people will start to realise what's entailed by having biometric ID cards, and more people will stop wanting them.

I can only hope you are correct. But if ths fails, would anyone care to suggest a nice country for me to move to? ( I'm thinking Ireland may be easiest, no language barrier.)

I live in a country where IDs are compulsory for those aged 12 and above.
No hassle for me. Makes life alot easier. I live in the UK as well and I dont see a problem with the ID idea.

Originally posted by tacitblue
Our governments have created terrorism, promote terrorism, and support it. The people who are actually in control are terrorists themselves... Why do you think the US invaded Afganistan and Iraq? Opium and oil...

And yes, the Talaban was a CIA project designed to fight the Soviets during the 1980s... Just like Saddam Hussien was used to fight Iran.

Take everything in the media with a grain of salt... We are surely NOT free.

I am for the war on terror in general, but surely something must be done about this?...

Want to stop terrorism? Stop supporting your government...

My thinking exactly! People just don't realize how far it's gone. It's happened so gradually. Cops are terrorists. When was the last time you weren't nervous when a cop got right behind and followed you? Did you pull your seatbelt on, just in case? Most people go under the speed limit, all of a sudden. It's the reason you pay taxes on things you don't even support, nor care about. Everything in America is enforced at gunpoint. Think about it.
As far as the UK, what do you expect from a Monarchy? Isn't that about the same as a dictatorship? It is to me. Having "royalty" rule the nation is a scary thought, yet it's the same here. We just call it something else because we play this election charade. It's all a big charade. There's no war on terror. There's a war on personal freedom and privacy...has been for a long time. When people decide they've had enough and fight back, they're labeled terrorists by the terrorists and quickly destroyed, or completely discredited. There's alot more to the WTO protest "riots" than meets the eye. The real protesters didn't wear masks.

Please.............
God that sounded stupid, we are not ruled by a monarch. We have an elected prime minister. The monarch is an aesthetic position with virtually no formal power left

Yeah, our monarchy theoretically has some powers left, but they've not been used for a very long time. They're just left there for the ceromony of it (i.e. the Queen opens parliament, black rod comes and knocks on the door, etc.). I'm quite happy we've kept those traditionists but it has no impact on our system of government.

I noticed also the point about ID cards being unintrusive. Those are the types of ID cards we used to have, people need to notice that Blunkett's proposals are for highly invasive biometric ID cards. It's a whole different kettle of fish.

Originally posted by browha
Please.............
God that sounded stupid, we are not ruled by a monarch. We have an elected prime minister. The monarch is an aesthetic position with virtually no formal power left

I see. I still have this image of England with the Queen and King ruling the kingdom. It's beyond my comprehension how people ever could have allowed that to be in the first place.