Wow someone was buying beers at the O club after that sucker.

AWST last week had a bit about the F/A-18 Growler that got a F-22. The navy guy pretty much admitted it had nothing to do with jamming but rather the Raptor manuvered into its gunsights and it got a quick kill.

All the more reason for more of them and while we can que the Raptor haters the airframe is still in its infancy and the pilots are still working out the tactics etc.

Without knowing, again, the parameters it's difficult to say anything. The engagement lasts a while and it only stays in the 300-400 Kt range, the F-22 could light burners and leave the T-38, or anything, in the dust. The maneuvering is not really impressive of the F-22 either, we know it can do more. What we don't know know is if this was a special handicap test etc... Either way, pretty interesting.

Planes don't kill planes.
Pilots kill planes.

Oh come on. That's all I wanted and needed to say. I don't want more words.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Just because a T-38 shoots one down doesn't detract from the fact that it's a hell of a fighter.

This case does not. I am convinced by someone with far more knowledge about Air Force activities than me that this video is of a T-38 practicing missile and gun lock. In this case the target for this routine happened to be an F-22.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Not every shoot down has to be a handicapped F-22.

Of course not, but this one was, it wasn't actually a "fight". Also, so far the few simulated shoot downs of F-22's have all been due to extreme fortune, with skill, or handicap/unrealistic training scenarios. And that's just a fact.

I bet you all the kiddies on Keypublishing forum are loving this.

Well lockheed have accepted that there won`t be anymore built.

The budget hasn't yet been finalized.
I doubt any Senator would allow such a justifiable cash cow go to waste.

I must be completely oblivious cause I didnt see anything get shot down in the video.

I just wonder how many flight hours the 22 pilot had versus how many the Talon pilot had and what, specifically, the ROE were. Maybe this was a "crippled" Raptor scenario? (sorry, just throwing that one out there).
I'm not trying to make excuses for the Raptor and I fully acknowledge that any driver can have a bad day and get shot down. Hell, even Yeager was splashed back in the day... It just seems unlikely that a Raptor could be downed by a Talon unless the Raptor driver was severely limited by a very strict set of ROE.

Originally posted by king9072
I must be completely oblivious cause I didnt see anything get shot down in the video.

The T-38 driver had radar lock on the 22 for a sustained period of time and what we could assume would be a confirmed kill by nearby circulating AWACS or ground radar. The F-22 didn't actually get hit with a sidewinder or anything (thank goodness!)

Was it a T-38 or an F-5? I thought the T-38 didn't even have a gunsight in the HUD, no less a radar for AAM.